RE: Another pointless gun death.

RE: Another pointless gun death. (Full Version)

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subrosaDom -> RE: Another pointless gun death. (8/28/2014 4:26:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDaveGuy69 I would put Xians up against islam in terms of atrocities, but that's a discussion for another thread, another day... quote: ORIGINAL: subrosaDom Why is Rotherham taboo here? As in banned, I mean, rather than as showing the Brits otherwise pro-Muslim to see that their country's own political correctness resulted in hundreds of white British children being raped and tortured by monsters whom the "police" didn't have the balls to arrest. In fact, they arrested some of the fathers of the victims. Really, there is no religion more disgusting, more responsible for repellent crimes, crimes against humanity, than Islam. Let's see if my post stays up. During the Inquisition? Sure. We're a little past that.

ThatDaveGuy69 -> RE: Another pointless gun death. (8/28/2014 4:37:25 AM)
Yeah, ya got yer Inquisition, but let's not forget The Crusades and the Dark Ages in general. More recently, you've got The Vatican's complicity with the Nazis in WWII; that whole dead, unwanted babies thing in Ireland; pedophile priests; and the ever-popular Xian Taliban - the folks who like to bomb abortion clinics and murder doctors. Sure, xianity has grown up/matured a bit and Islam has a LONG way to go to catch up, but from a historical perspective I can't tell with side is worse. Bottom line: religion ruins everything. But again, it's a discussion for a different topic/thread.

Sanity -> RE: Another pointless gun death. (8/28/2014 5:29:08 AM)
Yeah, that whole, "Thous shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal" sort of thing really held back the beginnings of civilization, didn't it Spreading the written word, what a disaster that was

Lucylastic -> RE: Another pointless gun death. (8/28/2014 5:55:28 AM)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/27/nra-children-gun-range_n_5725674.html WASHINGTON -- Less than two days after a 9-year-old girl in Arizona accidentally shot and killed a gun range instructor who was showing her how to fire an Uzi, the National Rifle Association on Wednesday touted new ways for children to "have fun" at shooting ranges. The nation's largest gun lobby posted a tweet Wednesday afternoon to its NRA Women account that read "7 Ways Children Can Have Fun at the Shooting Range." The tweet included a link to an article with the same title published on the website of Women's Outdoor News. A little over an hour after posting it, NRA Women deleted the tweet without explanation. The story linked in the tweet lists a number of new and colorful targets that it says will engage young shooters who have grown bored with the standard bull's-eye. In describing a pack of zombie targets, the author, Mia Anstine, writes that children "can imagine they're getting rid of the monsters from their nightmares." But a nightmare is precisely what unfolded on Monday, when 39-year-old Charles Vacca, a range instructor at Bullets and Burgers in northwest Arizona, stood over a 9-year-old girl holding an Uzi. The Israeli-made submachine gun can fire almost 30 rounds per second, according to the manufacturer. Police say the child lost control of the machine gun, and Vacca was shot in the head. He died later that day in a hospital. The Arizona shooting has prompted a heated national debate over what guns are safe for use by minors, even under supervision. Experts agree that an Uzi was the wrong choice for a 9-year-old girl. The timing of the NRA's tweet appears to be linked to this debate. Anstine's column about children's shooting targets was posted on August 20, almost a week before the Arizona shooting. Why the NRA would decide to push out this column to the more than 7,000 followers of its "NRA Women" account is unclear. The NRA did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

tweakabelle -> RE: Another pointless gun death. (8/28/2014 6:06:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Yeah, that whole, "Thous shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal" sort of thing really held back the beginnings of civilization, didn't it Spreading the written word, what a disaster that was You seem unaware that "spreading the written word" was conducted chiefly by wholesale breaches of the xian injunctions "Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal". Check out the record of the Spanish spreading the word in the Americas if you have any doubts. And the notion that the xian injunctions were part of the "beginnings of civilization" is even flakier. Ancient Greek civilisation - usually regarded as the fountainhead of European civilisation - preceded the advent of xianity by a few centuries. But hey since when have you ever let the facts get in the way of a good ole ideological rant?

Lucylastic -> RE: Another pointless gun death. (8/28/2014 6:31:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic And just a note to our British friends who have gotten themselves all into a tizzy about something involving the guidance provided to an American child, do be aware that some of your news flows our way as well. The Rotherham subject is going to be taboo on this forum, but what the FUCK is wrong with you miserable shits!?!?! Maybe have a look in your own fucking yard, instead of peering into ours? 1400 victims over a period of years and your goddamn USELESS FUCKING unarmed police just assumed they were exaggerating and making up stories, and were afraid they might be called racists if they did anything? HOW FUCKING DARE YOU make snide little comments about us when this is happening under your noses? This needs to be rammed down the throat of anyone who has ever used the "racist" slur to attack an idea they just didn't like. Rammed down hard enough that it will hurt to swallow for days afterward. Back Last year I wrote this.... Theres a very good prog out there called Dispatches: The Hunt for Britains Sex Gangs. It follows school girls who have been targeted by sex gangs, and the failure rate of getting these pigs incarcerated. Wether russian, english, muslim, asian, catholic, etc etc ad nauseam. Its got fuck all to do with multiculturism, but the nature of pigs to defile children. http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4502725 it doesnt actually cover rotherham but rather telford, How fucking dare we???? you have to be joking...no body gave a damn last year, and I get accused of using "Hamas techniques" fuck you and the horse you rode in on. Child sex trade/slavery/sex abuse has been ignored by way to many for way too long. your impotent rage is way too fucking late. edited to add the you tube link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y45FyVUlwRM

AQRMZ -> RE: Another pointless gun death. (8/28/2014 7:10:57 AM)
IN REPLY TO ANYONE AND EVERYONE OR WHO EVER. I think some of the folks on here are drifting the subject around, I leave it up to you all to decide who and what. HOWEVER: I posted this just after I had seen the owner of the range interviewed on National Television. Draw what conclusions that you wish. I doubt that some will stick to the subject, and facts of the issue. Here it is below. Everything that is said is by the owner of the range. The guy was not doing it right. The parents, the NRA, or anyone else is not to blame for the guy's death. ________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Not in reply to anyone. Just a few minutes ago on the nightly news. The owner, "instructor was not a licensed instructor and that is not required there." The video which shows more than the link above, showed that the instructor was standing on the "wrong" side of the little girl. He had his hand on her back instead of her shoulder. He was on her left side and should have been on her right. Had he been where he should have been, according to the range owner, he would not have been shot. So, I guess you could say it was ultimately his fault and the poor guy paid the ultimate price. When the recoil raised the muzzle up it went right towards his head. The vid was stopped just before it showed him being shot. This info came from an interview with the range owner in his words on camera. Just info on the facts, not meant to imply anything one way or another about what is right or wrong or who this or that. I feel sorry for the little girl, this is something that will be tough to live with. I hope she can deal with it. < Message edited by AQRMZ -- 8/27/2014 5:01:14 PM > ________________________________________________________________________________________________

lovmuffin -> RE: Another pointless gun death. (8/28/2014 8:21:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDaveGuy69 It's wasn't exactly clear from the interview with the owner that the deceased did or did not, in fact, work for the store/range. At the very least I certainly HOPE he didn't. But then that begs the question of WTF he was even doing there, "instructing" someone (anyone!) on how to use anything more sophisticated than a pencil?! I would also like to know where was the Range Safety Officer? This story is moving from tragic accident to multiple layers of blatant incompetence. And these are people who claim to be law-abiding defenders of their twisted view of the 2nd Amendment? I'd like to read your twisted view of the Second Amendment. Maybe it would be entertaining like joether. And the next time ya start bitchin about the price of ammo keep in mind if it wasn't for the NRA you wouldn't be able to afford it at all.

thishereboi -> RE: Another pointless gun death. (8/28/2014 9:13:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Let me see now, how is it this goes? quote: is it the inefficence of the weapon that pisses you off or are you just mocking the death of a persons to make a political point? Yeah, that was it. No Viagra needed for Polite this evening I see. I haven't read the thread (and doubt there would be any point in doing so), but let me 'splain something. In the US, we have kids who race cars and motorcycles, jump out of airplanes, train attack dogs, climb mountains, scuba dive, and engage in any other inherently risky sport you can think of. This is a tragic accident, but it doesn't call for jack shit, or call jack shit into question. I think that covers it. [8\|] I think you're right [8D]

Kirata -> RE: Another poitless gun death. (8/28/2014 9:28:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle There is something seriously wrong with a society that teaches 9 year olds how to use an Uzi. And I mean seriously wrong. Put a sock in it, tweakabelle. America is not, "a society that teaches 9 year olds how to use an Uzi." A couple of parents did, and it appears the instructor made some errors that resulted in a tragic death. Capitalizing on that misfortune to insert your political views into the situation and vent your spleen against America and its freedoms will gain you nothing but contempt. K.

thishereboi -> RE: Another poitless gun death. (8/28/2014 9:36:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrosaDom quote: ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Yes they are always accidents or one offs or a chance in a million or irresponsible parents or <fill in cliched rationalisation of your choice here> when the outcome fails to flatter the pro-gun lobby. Specious rationalisation after specious rationalisation ....... What does it take before it sinks in? Where ever there is a plentiful supply of guns within easy reach, there are going to be more 'accidents' or 'one offs' or 'chances in a million'. It is inevitable, as near as it comes to a statistical certainty. All the Second Amendment rights in the world are not worth a single drop of a child's blood. There is something seriously wrong with a society that teaches 9 year olds how to use an Uzi. And I mean seriously wrong. this!!! NOT "this." Rather: Wherever there is a plentiful supply of swimming pools within each reach, there are going to be "accidents" or "one-off-drownings" or "chances in a million." It is inevitable, as near as it comes to a statistical certainty. All the rights of people to have swimming pools in their backyards are not worth a single precious breath of a child. There is something seriously wrong with a society that teaches 9-year-olds how to swim. And I mean seriously wrong. FYI: In the US, out of 6 million pools, there are about 550 children under the age of 10 who drown each year. 1 out of 11,000 175 children under 10 die from a gunshot. This is out of 200 million guns. 1 out of more than 1,000,000 Source: Freakonomics. Facts are stubborn things. yes they are

Kirata -> RE: Another pointless gun death. (8/28/2014 9:36:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle You seem unaware that "spreading the written word" was conducted chiefly by wholesale breaches of the xian injunctions "Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal". Check out the record of the Spanish spreading the word in the Americas if you have any doubts. I find it somewhat odd that certain people are quick to blame Christianity for the Inquisition, and to attack anyone who points out (as you are doing here) that there was nothing "Christian" about it, are routinely dismissed as attempting to float a No True Scotsman fallacy, despite the fact that there is nothing anywhere in the NT, let alone the teachings of Christ, that recommends torturing and killing unbelievers. But, when a Muslim stands up and speaks out against ISIS, declaring that they are neither true Muslims nor practicing Islam, the fellow is cheered and patted on the back, despite the fact that the Koran explicitly commands the killing of all infidels who refuse to submit. K.

crazyml -> RE: Another poitless gun death. (8/28/2014 9:37:28 AM)
chortle. "America and its freedoms". <slaps thigh> That has cheered me up no end.

quizzicalkitten -> RE: Another poitless gun death. (8/28/2014 9:44:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: subrosaDom quote: ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Yes they are always accidents or one offs or a chance in a million or irresponsible parents or <fill in cliched rationalisation of your choice here> when the outcome fails to flatter the pro-gun lobby. Specious rationalisation after specious rationalisation ....... What does it take before it sinks in? Where ever there is a plentiful supply of guns within easy reach, there are going to be more 'accidents' or 'one offs' or 'chances in a million'. It is inevitable, as near as it comes to a statistical certainty. All the Second Amendment rights in the world are not worth a single drop of a child's blood. There is something seriously wrong with a society that teaches 9 year olds how to use an Uzi. And I mean seriously wrong. this!!! NOT "this." Rather: Wherever there is a plentiful supply of swimming pools within each reach, there are going to be "accidents" or "one-off-drownings" or "chances in a million." It is inevitable, as near as it comes to a statistical certainty. All the rights of people to have swimming pools in their backyards are not worth a single precious breath of a child. There is something seriously wrong with a society that teaches 9-year-olds how to swim. And I mean seriously wrong. FYI: In the US, out of 6 million pools, there are about 550 children under the age of 10 who drown each year. 1 out of 11,000 175 children under 10 die from a gunshot. This is out of 200 million guns. 1 out of more than 1,000,000 Source: Freakonomics. Facts are stubborn things. yes they are So poison and cars are the number one reasons for deaths... we need to ban and regulate that shit...

momndaughter -> RE: Another poitless gun death. (8/28/2014 9:59:57 AM)
It terrifies me that a doting parent would take their kid to a place called "burgers and bullets", and then video them with My First Machine Pistol... That aside, the first, single shot should have clued the "instructor" in to the vicious up and left kick, and that the small child didn't have the experience or physical strength to keep it in check. At the very least he should have stood to her right, and kept a grip on the weapon before switching to full auto. The real tragedy is that this kid has to deal with having blown his head off, at close range, for the rest of her life.

stef -> RE: Another pointless gun death. (8/28/2014 10:01:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle You seem unaware that "spreading the written word" was conducted chiefly by wholesale breaches of the xian injunctions "Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal". Check out the record of the Spanish spreading the word in the Americas if you have any doubts. You're trying to reason with "Sanity"? Good luck with that.

BamaD -> RE: Another pointless gun death. (8/28/2014 10:24:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDaveGuy69 Nice ad hom attack.. I guess when you have nothing to support your argument... The 1st report I saw claimed the deceased was, in fast, an instructor at the store/range - that statement implies employment at same. Sorry if the connection was too subtle for you. Funny thing about a story like this: new information keeps coming out as additional details are uncovered and reported on. This is exactly what I wrote in my 1st response to this thread: The story being reported is that the "instructor" had the child a shoot few rounds on Single Shot and she appeared to handle to weapon with little or no trouble. He, the alleged instructor, then felt it would be OK to have the child try the weapon on "Full Auto". At that point mayhem (or hilarity - take your pick) ensued. The stupidity there is think enough to cut with a knife. The part of the story I'm looking forward to is how the NRA will spin this to their advantage and make it look like some sort of planned attack by the anti-gun crowd. I'm betting they will initially go with the "No True Scotsman" defense and gradually work it into some sort of White House-based conspiracy. Later I wrote: Wrong again - no gunophobe me. I own several and enjoy shooting at the range. Oh come on - you KNOW the NRA nutbaggers will blame Obama for this. Later I said: Wait for it... After watching the 10pm news I wrote: It's happening already - I saw on the late news in an interview with the owner of the gun store/range that he (the owner) has denied that the deceased was an actual instructor there. Tick-Tock, NRA - you're wasting valuable spin time! BTW: Thank you to all the teabagger nutball gun freaks out there who have driven up the price of ammo to the point where I can't afford to shoot as often as I'd like. Get this through your thick, redneck hat-holders: Obama is NOT coming for your guns! So, now that we're all up to date, please point out where I claimed the instructor was, in fact, an employee. It was certainly IMPLIED by the initial reports but now it seems that is not the case. Geez, why am I even bothering to argue semantics with you? Did I ever say I was a "dedicated gun owner"? No, I said "I own several". That may or may not be true depending on if you consider 5 to be several. Yes, I feel the NRA and many (most?) "gun enthusiasts" have a very twisted view of the 2nd Amendment. When the Constitution was written we (the Nation) still thought it was OK to own other human beings. We have, for the most part, changed our collective mind about that. Also, at that time in our history, a well-regulated civilian militia was needed in case England had 2nd thoughts about losing the Colonies. We clearly do NOT need that anymore and we clearly do NOT need every Tom, Dick, and Harry packing enough heat to overthrow a 3rd-world country. We need some sanity in our gun laws and the mere fact that anyone in this country thinks it's OK to hand a full-auto weapon to a 9yo shouts loud and clear that we are fucking nuts. I do NOT feel the 2nd Amendment gives gun owners Carte Blanche. We regulate rights for good reason - to force some level of responsibility on those who exercise those rights. Now, if you're finished twisting my words around, maybe you can refute the various comments and arguments made in this thread. But if all you can do is attack the messenger then kindly GTFO of this conversation. BTW: Who is "ken"? quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDaveGuy69 It's wasn't exactly clear from the interview with the owner that the deceased did or did not, in fact, work for the store/range. At the very least I certainly HOPE he didn't. But then that begs the question of WTF he was even doing there, "instructing" someone (anyone!) on how to use anything more sophisticated than a pencil?! I would also like to know where was the Range Safety Officer? This story is moving from tragic accident to multiple layers of blatant incompetence. And these are people who claim to be law-abiding defenders of their twisted view of the 2nd Amendment? Then why did you say the interview said he was an employee and make it out to be part of an evil NRA plot? And of course being the dedicated gun owner you are you want to blame this on a "twisted" view of the 2nd. I see you are from Chicago, live close to ken do you? I guess you are very proud of using this tragedy to attempt to score political points. I didn't address your stupid argument because it isn't related to the thread. Why don't you start a thread. Dave's paranoid delusions would be a good title.

CreativeDominant -> RE: Another poitless gun death. (8/28/2014 10:24:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer That story seems to be too new at this time for any idea of motive, K. But, yes, it is absolutely gobsmacking. There was no motive, it was a stupid accident. Yes they are always accidents or one offs or a chance in a million or irresponsible parents or <fill in cliched rationalisation of your choice here> when the outcome fails to flatter the pro-gun lobby. Specious rationalisation after specious rationalisation ....... What does it take before it sinks in? Where ever there is a plentiful supply of guns within easy reach, there are going to be more 'accidents' or 'one offs' or 'chances in a million'. It is inevitable, as near as it comes to a statistical certainty. All the Second Amendment rights in the world are not worth a single drop of a child's blood. There is something seriously wrong with a society that teaches 9 year olds how to use an Uzi. And I mean seriously wrong. In the first place, it wasn't society teaching a 9 yr old to shoot an Uzi. It was...as I stated earlier...undisciplined, entitled twits masquerading as parents and an undisciplined "Cartman" (respect my authority) acting like a grown-up gun instructor. As for what society has taught these "grown-ups", you might want to look at several earlier posts for ideas on what has been taught. Put shorttly...entitlement, privilege, that the world revolves around them, a sneering attitude towards anything that smacks of "the veneer of cililized behavior" or discipline. Oh...And their precious, unearned self-esteem. Finally..."even if it saves only one life, isn't it worth it?". Well...no. And by the way, it was an adult life lost. Not a single drop of "precious child" blood was spilled. BUT...even if it had been, why should my rights be trampled on because of some aforementioned dolts pretending to be parents? They took their child to a gun range...I didn't. They put an Uzi in their child's hands...I didn't. Go after the people who committed the appalling behavior, not responsible law-abiding citizens.

crazyml -> RE: Another poitless gun death. (8/28/2014 10:41:31 AM)
I can't fault your argument. I've shot firearms with kids of 10 and 11, and wouldn't rule out shooting with a younger kid - If I felt they were up to it. Mind you, we're talking about small bore rifles and shotguns, not frikken machine pistols! I am assuming there are restrictions on the types of firearm that kids may own and use unsupervised? I would ask whether the Uzi is what they had in mind when they penned the 2nd amendment - But as I've tried a few times to explain to fellow Europeans - our definition (or anyone else's for that matter) of what the 2nd covers doesn't mean shit. It's the USSC that decides what it means.

Lucylastic -> RE: Another poitless gun death. (8/28/2014 10:41:44 AM)
FR Cars and poisons and pools, fires, stabbings, beatings, domestic abuse, drugs, rapes, accidents with power tools ,stupid parents, abusive parents, negligent adults, ignorant neighbours and curious children happen everywhere, in every country every day. Humans are stupid. There are regulations made covering safety issues when they become problematic or a solution is found to lessen the harm caused. That a huge number of people dont get why others get upset angry, passionate about the pointless preventable deaths caused by idiots with guns. And especially those who have no desire to see a change in laws, OR enforcement of laws in place to lessen the harm done by idiots with guns is selfish, shortsighted and ignorant especially when they pretend (to themselves mostly) they have never done anything stupid/careless or thoughtless in their lives.

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