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RE: Ohio Woman Stops Baseball Bat Assault By Drawing He... - 9/2/2014 1:21:24 AM   
BitYakin


Posts: 882
Joined: 10/15/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
point is, if there are 100,000,000 guns in the USA and 30,000 gun deaths that's .03% if there are 10,000 guns in the UK and 30 gun deaths its .3% or 100 times HIGHER

Something wrong with your maths there.


Guns owned in the UK: Around 1.8m. Gun deaths (2008): 51. Mean average: 35,294 guns per death.
Guns owned in the US: Around 270m-310m. Gun deaths (2008): 31,593. Mean average: 9,812 guns per death (or 8,546 for the lower figure).

So... nowhere near equal, or similar at all... At least 3.6x greater than us.
And, unlike the US, every single gun needs to have a certificate. You can't hold more than one firearm on one license.

I wouldn't call that a figure to crow about or be proud of.





nothing wrong with my math, I clearly asked if anyone had the actual numbers, the numbers I provided were just an example, and the MATH, using those numbers was/is CORRECT

_____________________________

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Ohio Woman Stops Baseball Bat Assault By Drawing He... - 9/2/2014 5:50:22 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
point is, if there are 100,000,000 guns in the USA and 30,000 gun deaths that's .03% if there are 10,000 guns in the UK and 30 gun deaths its .3% or 100 times HIGHER

Something wrong with your maths there.


Guns owned in the UK: Around 1.8m. Gun deaths (2008): 51. Mean average: 35,294 guns per death.
Guns owned in the US: Around 270m-310m. Gun deaths (2008): 31,593. Mean average: 9,812 guns per death (or 8,546 for the lower figure).

So... nowhere near equal, or similar at all... At least 3.6x greater than us.
And, unlike the US, every single gun needs to have a certificate. You can't hold more than one firearm on one license.

I wouldn't call that a figure to crow about or be proud of.





nothing wrong with my math, I clearly asked if anyone had the actual numbers, the numbers I provided were just an example, and the MATH, using those numbers was/is CORRECT

This 31,593 figure is very misleading as well over half are suicides, thus they only figure in if you would be happier if they jumped out of windows.
The actual relevant figure is 13,000 something which calculating as 13500 and the low end estimate of 270 million = 0.0005 murders per gun or 1 murder per 20000 guns. Hardly perfect but considering there is a higher murdered rate here with clubs than the murder rate in England it is better than advertised.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 9/2/2014 5:53:07 AM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to BitYakin)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Ohio Woman Stops Baseball Bat Assault By Drawing He... - 9/3/2014 3:01:05 AM   
BitYakin


Posts: 882
Joined: 10/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
point is, if there are 100,000,000 guns in the USA and 30,000 gun deaths that's .03% if there are 10,000 guns in the UK and 30 gun deaths its .3% or 100 times HIGHER

Something wrong with your maths there.


Guns owned in the UK: Around 1.8m. Gun deaths (2008): 51. Mean average: 35,294 guns per death.
Guns owned in the US: Around 270m-310m. Gun deaths (2008): 31,593. Mean average: 9,812 guns per death (or 8,546 for the lower figure).

So... nowhere near equal, or similar at all... At least 3.6x greater than us.
And, unlike the US, every single gun needs to have a certificate. You can't hold more than one firearm on one license.

I wouldn't call that a figure to crow about or be proud of.





nothing wrong with my math, I clearly asked if anyone had the actual numbers, the numbers I provided were just an example, and the MATH, using those numbers was/is CORRECT

This 31,593 figure is very misleading as well over half are suicides, thus they only figure in if you would be happier if they jumped out of windows.
The actual relevant figure is 13,000 something which calculating as 13500 and the low end estimate of 270 million = 0.0005 murders per gun or 1 murder per 20000 guns. Hardly perfect but considering there is a higher murdered rate here with clubs than the murder rate in England it is better than advertised.


yeah I kind of eluded to that in an earlier post, where I asked if they thought people who were intent on suicide would not commit suicide if there wasn't a gun available...

those people were intent on killing themselves, and the fact that a gun was available just gave them a quicker less painful less gruesome way of achieving their goal

me I'd use drugs personally, even though I have guns available

_____________________________

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Ohio Woman Stops Baseball Bat Assault By Drawing He... - 9/3/2014 5:44:41 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

You want an example of a Gun Nut?

I loved the link, especially the title: "Enter the Terrifying Mind of a Gun Nut Willing to Use His BABY as a Shield". That is of course a lie. But then, the story comes straight out of "Liberaland" (literally), and its conclusions are supported by what can only be described as hysterics and projection.

You know, just like most of your posts.

K.




It makes me wonder if the writer doesn't know what the word shield means or if he just assumes his audience won't and liked the way it sounded. Or perhaps he is as ill informed as a lot of the posters here and think he is about to get into a fire fight at the local Kroger. Obviously at least one of their readers bought into it. Anyone else not surprised.

_____________________________

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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Ohio Woman Stops Baseball Bat Assault By Drawing He... - 9/3/2014 7:35:43 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
You want an example of a Gun Nut?

I loved the link, especially the title: "Enter the Terrifying Mind of a Gun Nut Willing to Use His BABY as a Shield". That is of course a lie. But then, the story comes straight out of "Liberaland" (literally), and its conclusions are supported by what can only be described as hysterics and projection.

It was a sort of 'spur of the moment' link. Needed something that might help him understand the concept from a different direction than what he might find familiar. I thought the title of the article was a...bit....over the top. But hey, liberal and conservative sites do that from time to time.

The information is true and does ask the question "Should this be normal behave?" And the answer is 'no'. I do not see many sane gun owners pulling a stunt like this. Wouldn't put it past a gun nut....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
You know, just like most of your posts.


Unlike your posts that no one seems to give a shit. I just don't want you to feel lonely on the thread. :)

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Ohio Woman Stops Baseball Bat Assault By Drawing He... - 9/3/2014 7:42:06 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
You want an example of a Gun Nut?

I loved the link, especially the title: "Enter the Terrifying Mind of a Gun Nut Willing to Use His BABY as a Shield". That is of course a lie. But then, the story comes straight out of "Liberaland" (literally), and its conclusions are supported by what can only be described as hysterics and projection.

It was a sort of 'spur of the moment' link. Needed something that might help him understand the concept from a different direction than what he might find familiar. I thought the title of the article was a...bit....over the top. But hey, liberal and conservative sites do that from time to time.

The information is true and does ask the question "Should this be normal behave?" And the answer is 'no'. I do not see many sane gun owners pulling a stunt like this. Wouldn't put it past a gun nut....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
You know, just like most of your posts.


Unlike your posts that no one seems to give a shit. I just don't want you to feel lonely on the thread. :)


Hatchet piece which puts a gunaphobic spin on everything, and makes stupid assumptions that are not even implied by the gun owner.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Ohio Woman Stops Baseball Bat Assault By Drawing He... - 9/3/2014 8:01:34 PM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
This 31,593 figure is very misleading as well over half are suicides, thus they only figure in if you would be happier if they jumped out of windows.
The actual relevant figure is 13,000 something which calculating as 13500 and the low end estimate of 270 million = 0.0005 murders per gun or 1 murder per 20000 guns. Hardly perfect but considering there is a higher murdered rate here with clubs than the murder rate in England it is better than advertised.

The figure is not misleading at all - it is actual gun deaths.
It doesn't cherry-pick what type of death. A death is a death, whether suicide, homicide or accident.
I'm not talking just homicides/murders but total guns deaths!!

Of course, I've come to expect such spin on numbers from you.
13,000 is not relevant because it's only a subset of the total.


_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Ohio Woman Stops Baseball Bat Assault By Drawing He... - 9/3/2014 8:12:29 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
This 31,593 figure is very misleading as well over half are suicides, thus they only figure in if you would be happier if they jumped out of windows.
The actual relevant figure is 13,000 something which calculating as 13500 and the low end estimate of 270 million = 0.0005 murders per gun or 1 murder per 20000 guns. Hardly perfect but considering there is a higher murdered rate here with clubs than the murder rate in England it is better than advertised.

The figure is not misleading at all - it is actual gun deaths.
It doesn't cherry-pick what type of death. A death is a death, whether suicide, homicide or accident.
I'm not talking just homicides/murders but total guns deaths!!

Of course, I've come to expect such spin on numbers from you.
13,000 is not relevant because it's only a subset of the total.


It is the only relevant number, are you really dumb enough to think they will say oh I really want to die but I don't have a gun so I will live my life out, or would you be happier if they jumped out of widows?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Ohio Woman Stops Baseball Bat Assault By Drawing He... - 9/3/2014 8:13:25 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
In order to be taken even marginally seriously you need to stop calling everyone who disagrees with you on any detail to be a "gun nut" and by extension an idiot. And why should anyone with any brains at all not support a woman defending herself? Of course self defense is a privilege and she didn't check in with the cops before committing self defense. How dare she take responsibility or her own well being. Prove she was lying.

I've been...VERY CLEAR....on what a gun nut is and what a gun owner is. That they share similar things while at the same time many differences. You can look it up on the forums. If you do, you'll find your argument is full of shit here. No, honestly....do the research. In fact on one of these threads in the past, I explained to you. Yes YOU, BamaD, the four groups of Americans as I see on the greater subject matter of 'The 2nd Amendment and Everything Within' (that's not the name of the thread, btw).

When I've explained the four groups, it usually takes about 15-20 minutes. Its pretty in-depth look at who they are, how they operate, how they operate in relationship to the other three groups, their viewpoints, and examples/concepts that might help someone in identifying who I'm talking about. Over time, I've made minor corrections and adjustments as I've thought on the concept. You think of this as a 'tug of war' or 'a football game'. Its really 'zero sum' in that one side has to totally lose for another side to totally win. And you have hinted if not stated what you would do if your 'side' loses totally. And you wonder why people have problems with your material on this forum?

You want an example of a Gun Nut?

Nice subject change now prove she was lying.


I didn't say she was lying. I asked a number of questions to which answers are nowhere to be found. The people that defend the 2nd amendment like religious fanatics accept the whole article without question. Yet question a handful of words a Democrats says on limiting firearm access to Depression suffers as code for: BAN 'EM ALL! When in reality the Democrat REALLY was trying to find ways to help those possibly suffering from Depression to have more access to treatment.

I did say all the events happened to perfectly to be believable. If the questions were answered and the answers seem legitimate and honest, it could be much further believed as a genuine set of events (i.e. 'grats' to the lady). I never stated she filed a false police report to advance a political agenda. I did say people have made false police reports to advance a political agenda, which is truth. Your subconscious is assuming the two sentence ideas are the same. So it is you who are wrong with your 'analysis' of my views, not mine.

BTW, you did request an example of a 'gun nut'. That was not changing the subject, that would providing you something you originally wanted.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Ohio Woman Stops Baseball Bat Assault By Drawing He... - 9/3/2014 8:26:10 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		I didn't say she was lying. I asked a number of questions to which answers are nowhere to be found.

This is what I call the California debating style.
With zero evidence you interjected that we should consider that she was lying.
You reenforced this with claim that the gun nuts believed her and did not question her honesty.
Now since you did not use the phrase "she lied" you want to pretend that you didn't want to turn this into a debate about her honesty.
Now you admit that there is no evidence but that only a 2nd amendment fanatic" (a phrase you oh so cleverly use instead of gun nut cause we are dumb enough to think you are being more respectful) would just accept her word. You have given no reason not to.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Ohio Woman Stops Baseball Bat Assault By Drawing He... - 9/3/2014 8:33:47 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Hatchet piece which puts a gunaphobic spin on everything, and makes stupid assumptions that are not even implied by the gun owner.


You would know what a hatchet job is, with every attack on President Obama that lacks anything in the way of supporting evidence.

The individual in the article for all I know is mentally unstable. Who the hell walks around with an AR-15 on their back, with their child on the front.....IN A GROCERY STORE? I could understand it, if he were in Somalia; but in America, it speaks of 'mental/emotional problems'? No one can read another's mind as far as I'm aware. How would anyone know that guy's intentions? It could have been as innocent as 'getting food from the store' to as easily as 'fuck all of you bitches!'.

The link I provided comes from other linked sources supplying other information on this guy's views towards events and people. Very 'colorful' stuff if not deranged. That his family/friends are pointing out the thought process is not normal nor conducive to a good, stable family. No one I know (even the gun owners) would....EVER....joke about child services in relationship to fallout to stuff they would do to 'show the government they mean business'. Its one thing to say that. But to show up in a public place, with a loaded firearm in that manner? And you cant grasp the problem here? Even with all the most recent events involving firearms in US History? No one wants to be an 'actor' in a mass shooting.

Grocery stores generally have a lot of people in one area; its called the check-out area. How easily could you take down people with an AR-15? How many people do you think your skilled at killing in say, a dozen seconds? Would you be firing semi-auto, or 'death incarnated' mode? What would be the likelihood of a CCW in the immediate area and would they directly engage you? I'm asking for curiosity sake. In my area, that guy wouldn't get fifteen feet into the store without the police being notified. Within a minute, there would be two or three police officers dealing with the person. And that guy better have an...EXTREMELY....good reason.


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Ohio Woman Stops Baseball Bat Assault By Drawing He... - 9/3/2014 9:01:39 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

The figure is not misleading at all - it is actual gun deaths.
It doesn't cherry-pick what type of death. A death is a death, whether suicide, homicide or accident.
I'm not talking just homicides/murders but total guns deaths!!

Despite all its guns the United States ranks only 43rd in suicides, behind Norway, Canada, New Zealand, Germany, Denmark and France, all of which have much stricter guns laws, with Australia slipping in at 44th by a hair. ~Source

Hanging was the predominant method of suicide in most countries included in the analysis (Table 1). The highest proportions were around 90% in men and 80% in women, as observed in eastern Europe... As might be expected, firearm suicide was the most common method in the United States... Poisoning with drugs was common in women from Canada, the Nordic countries and the United Kingdom. ~Source

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 9/3/2014 9:25:35 PM >

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Ohio Woman Stops Baseball Bat Assault By Drawing He... - 9/3/2014 9:03:50 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
I didn't say she was lying. I asked a number of questions to which answers are nowhere to be found.

This is what I call the California debating style.
With zero evidence you interjected that we should consider that she was lying.
You reenforced this with claim that the gun nuts believed her and did not question her honesty.
Now since you did not use the phrase "she lied" you want to pretend that you didn't want to turn this into a debate about her honesty.
Now you admit that there is no evidence but that only a 2nd amendment fanatic" (a phrase you oh so cleverly use instead of gun nut cause we are dumb enough to think you are being more respectful) would just accept her word. You have given no reason not to.


QUOTE WHERE I STATED SHE IS LYING.....

You've had many chances. Where is it? Either PRODUCE THE EVIDENCE....or....YOUR FULL OF SHIT!

Before my post and after it, not one gun owner on here, has come forward with either: A ) information to answer the questions I have, OR, B ) Asked additional, reasonable questions on the nature of events in the article.

I'm going to go...REALLY SLOW...and explain this next part to you BamaD....

From the start....

I'm all for a good, healthy discussion on the article. I can accept and handle the idea that all the events in the article happened exactly or close to the line of events. You unfortunately, can not handle the idea that the string of events did not happen like that, if at all. And that is where the discussion breaks down. In your mad attempt to attack me, you fail to answer even one of my questions in an honest manner. That's all I was asking....answers...to questions. I'm honest in saying the article sounds like a gun nut's fantasy. Someone just happened to have a firearm, and it was ready to deal with two unknown persons that wanted to do her bodily harm without any indication that was what truly happened? Did the police find either of these guys? Since that would help the argument that events....might...have gone in that direction. Could the lady have filed a false report? Of course. Why would she do it, given the potential legal and criminal liability? You understand I'm asking reasonable questions, right?

I have no evidence to support nor deny what is stated to have happened, actually happened. Your pissed that I'm not accepting the information without question. That I ask reasonable questions on an article that seems to good to be true. Why are you not asking the same sort of questions? Or do you trust everything your told in the media?

BTW, while your looking for which post I stated she was lying, could you also produce the post before this one, where I called someone on this thread a '2nd amendment fanatic'?

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Ohio Woman Stops Baseball Bat Assault By Drawing He... - 9/3/2014 9:33:27 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

The figure is not misleading at all - it is actual gun deaths.
It doesn't cherry-pick what type of death. A death is a death, whether suicide, homicide or accident.
I'm not talking just homicides/murders but total guns deaths!!

Despite all its firearms, the United States ranks only 43rd in suicides, behind Norway, Canada, New Zealand, Germany, Denmark and France, all of which have much stricter guns laws, with Australia slipping in at 44th by a hair. ~Source

Hanging was the predominant method of suicide in most countries included in the analysis (Table 1). The highest proportions were around 90% in men and 80% in women, as observed in eastern Europe... As might be expected, firearm suicide was the most common method in the United States... Poisoning with drugs was common in women from Canada, the Nordic countries and the United Kingdom. ~Source


The problem with suicide, Kirata, is that Depression (to which a person dies from) is an invisible illness. Unlike cancer and other horrible illnesses, Depression is not easily found except by a careful examination of the individual. Such examinations, to arrive at a proper diagnosis (to aid in a good recovery), unfortunately take time. It takes trial and error to find the right therapist and/or drugs. Even though the recovery time can be measured in months, years and even decades. The real trouble with Depression is that its very misunderstood on just about all aspects concerning it. Even those suffering from it may not realize the effects for what they are, nor the symptoms. Some people (particularly older people) are very scared to admit they might have a problem, and try to either hide it or self-medicate (both with disastrous results).

How does this relate to what your posting here?

That 'death by accident' could very well be someone that was very Depressed. Again, there are no outwardly signs. Either you have it, live with someone that has it, or a well trained medical/mental health professional, to detect it. Does this mean that any, most or all are simply suicides? That's hard to truly know. I would like to think the number of Depression suffers that die and listed as 'accidental death' is low. What is it truly? I have no idea.


(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Ohio Woman Stops Baseball Bat Assault By Drawing He... - 9/3/2014 10:20:25 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
I didn't say she was lying. I asked a number of questions to which answers are nowhere to be found.

This is what I call the California debating style.
With zero evidence you interjected that we should consider that she was lying.
You reenforced this with claim that the gun nuts believed her and did not question her honesty.
Now since you did not use the phrase "she lied" you want to pretend that you didn't want to turn this into a debate about her honesty.
Now you admit that there is no evidence but that only a 2nd amendment fanatic" (a phrase you oh so cleverly use instead of gun nut cause we are dumb enough to think you are being more respectful) would just accept her word. You have given no reason not to.


QUOTE WHERE I STATED SHE IS LYING.....

You've had many chances. Where is it? Either PRODUCE THE EVIDENCE....or....YOUR FULL OF SHIT!

Before my post and after it, not one gun owner on here, has come forward with either: A ) information to answer the questions I have, OR, B ) Asked additional, reasonable questions on the nature of events in the article.

I'm going to go...REALLY SLOW...and explain this next part to you BamaD....

From the start....

I'm all for a good, healthy discussion on the article. I can accept and handle the idea that all the events in the article happened exactly or close to the line of events. You unfortunately, can not handle the idea that the string of events did not happen like that, if at all. And that is where the discussion breaks down. In your mad attempt to attack me, you fail to answer even one of my questions in an honest manner. That's all I was asking....answers...to questions. I'm honest in saying the article sounds like a gun nut's fantasy. Someone just happened to have a firearm, and it was ready to deal with two unknown persons that wanted to do her bodily harm without any indication that was what truly happened? Did the police find either of these guys? Since that would help the argument that events....might...have gone in that direction. Could the lady have filed a false report? Of course. Why would she do it, given the potential legal and criminal liability? You understand I'm asking reasonable questions, right?

I have no evidence to support nor deny what is stated to have happened, actually happened. Your pissed that I'm not accepting the information without question. That I ask reasonable questions on an article that seems to good to be true. Why are you not asking the same sort of questions? Or do you trust everything your told in the media?

BTW, while your looking for which post I stated she was lying, could you also produce the post before this one, where I called someone on this thread a '2nd amendment fanatic'?

Read my post.
I specifically stated that you did not use the phrase she is lying.
If you can't read any better than that quit.
You wanted everyone to question her word while still being able to deny calling her a liar.
If she had used mace you would be crowing about how she didn't need a gun and would defend her word against all attacks.
And Obama did state the the DC gun ban was a reasonable compromise.
The exact phrase you used was people who defend the 2nd amendment like religious fanatics, another example of California debating.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 9/3/2014 10:21:36 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Ohio Woman Stops Baseball Bat Assault By Drawing He... - 9/3/2014 11:04:51 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

Depression (to which a person dies from) is an invisible illness... not easily found except by a careful examination

You're just making shit up. Depression is anything but "invisible." The diagnosis depends on manifestly visible signs that anyone can observe, including the affected persons themselves. It's true that Depression can be masked by other symptoms, or creep up on someone in a way that isn't recognized. But even in those cases, other people can usually see that something's wrong.

K.




< Message edited by Kirata -- 9/3/2014 11:33:17 PM >

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Ohio Woman Stops Baseball Bat Assault By Drawing He... - 9/4/2014 3:01:33 AM   
BitYakin


Posts: 882
Joined: 10/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
This 31,593 figure is very misleading as well over half are suicides, thus they only figure in if you would be happier if they jumped out of windows.
The actual relevant figure is 13,000 something which calculating as 13500 and the low end estimate of 270 million = 0.0005 murders per gun or 1 murder per 20000 guns. Hardly perfect but considering there is a higher murdered rate here with clubs than the murder rate in England it is better than advertised.

The figure is not misleading at all - it is actual gun deaths.
It doesn't cherry-pick what type of death. A death is a death, whether suicide, homicide or accident.
I'm not talking just homicides/murders but total guns deaths!!

Of course, I've come to expect such spin on numbers from you.
13,000 is not relevant because it's only a subset of the total.



actually yes it is QUITE relevant because it implies a suicide would not have committed suicide if there was no gun available...

you like to lump deaths in that would have happened regardless of guns...

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RE: Ohio Woman Stops Baseball Bat Assault By Drawing He... - 9/4/2014 3:22:58 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
actually yes it is QUITE relevant because it implies a suicide would not have committed suicide if there was no gun available...

you like to lump deaths in that would have happened regardless of guns...

Talk about spin!!

Firstly, it implies nothing of the sort.
Secondly, I am quoting total guns deaths regardless of reason.
Thirdly, I am not counting non-gun deaths.

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Ohio Woman Stops Baseball Bat Assault By Drawing He... - 9/4/2014 9:43:35 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
actually yes it is QUITE relevant because it implies a suicide would not have committed suicide if there was no gun available...

you like to lump deaths in that would have happened regardless of guns...

Talk about spin!!

Firstly, it implies nothing of the sort.
Secondly, I am quoting total guns deaths regardless of reason.
Thirdly, I am not counting non-gun deaths.

Fourth you think you have sole right to define the parameters of the conversation.
Fifth you are either a fool or so anti gun that you ignore reality, I suspect the later.

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People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Ohio Woman Stops Baseball Bat Assault By Drawing He... - 9/5/2014 2:12:22 AM   
BitYakin


Posts: 882
Joined: 10/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
actually yes it is QUITE relevant because it implies a suicide would not have committed suicide if there was no gun available...

you like to lump deaths in that would have happened regardless of guns...

Talk about spin!!

Firstly, it implies nothing of the sort.
Secondly, I am quoting total guns deaths regardless of reason.
Thirdly, I am not counting non-gun deaths.


but you ARE counting deaths that would have happened with or without the presence of guns, making it seem as if the GUNS were responsible for these deaths...

in another thread when I said I am counting ALL DEATHS and dead is dead with regards to auto related death wellll that was a horse of a different color...


if you cannot understand the relevance of the fact that those deaths would have happened NO MATTER WHAT THE GUN LAWS WERE, then there is simpely no point in having a conversation AT ALL

< Message edited by BitYakin -- 9/5/2014 2:13:18 AM >

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