RE: 1, 1, 3, 5, 1 - 9/8/2014 2:58:22 PM
|
|
|
joether
Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:
ORIGINAL: joether
Yeah, if we ignore the hundreds of studies from many sources across the nation. This would include universities, think tanks, government watch groups, journalists, and even individual citizens. The evidence on the table is that voter fraud is happening, but no where near the level the Republican/Tea Party is stating. In fact, their numbers have been routinely debunked with.....get this DS.....FACTS! The facts are, the amount of voter fraud that has taken place is measured in the 'tens' units compare to the 'billions' of votes in 2000.
Or are you going to accuse right here and now, every non US Citizen (be they here illegal or not) of voting? Make sure you bring your...EVIDENCE....that is verifiable and solid.
Good Lord, can't you taste the shit in your own mouth?!?
There is voter fraud. I'm willing to bet there is even more than what we've caught, too. Is it rampant? I highly doubt it. But, does it make what we do have "okay?" Certainly not.
There is voter fraud, DS. But its the rate it happens that is under scrutiny. You argue....without evidence....that voter fraud is taking place at the rate the GOP/TP tells you to believe. I am arguing from what the research has understood. I have the evidence to back up my claims from multiple sources. And that every voter fraud argument made, usually has some fact finding study that explains the specifics. Should we keep performing these studies? Yes. But the difference is you see only the sensational news, while I go after the facts. You can not admit the facts that have been shown time and again. An that is why you can get laughed at; like those that believe the Earth is flat.
If you have evidence, best bring it forth. Because all the past accusations from conservative media sources has been debunked entirely. Lets see what new bullshit those media groups are shoveling down your throat. You don't have to accept what they tell you as fact, right?
quote:
ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:
ORIGINAL: joether
quote:
ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
The cost of getting a birth certificate is real. I do not deny that. There can be a cost to getting an ID outside of the actual ID (many states provide them for free, but that doesn't include travel costs). I'm good with having a program to help those without ID's who want them to get them.
There is an abundant amount of Americans that do not have a birth certificate, even though they were born within the United States or conform to other ways in which one would become a US Citizen. What your stating here is that you don't trust your fellow Americans nor give them the benefit of doubt.
Got any citation for an "abundant amount of Americans" without birth cert's? How many of those don't already have ID's? How many of those without ID's are likely voters anyway?
Source # 1
Source # 2
Source # 3
Took me like 10 seconds to get a list from google of possible sources. Took me additional time to read through the information in each source. But each in their own way point out the hardships with obtaining photo IDs.
The first source I mention explains quite a few examples of people whom did not have a valid photo ID, but wished to vote. Would be an easy (but time consuming) effort to create a study on how accurate this concept was in states where vote photo ID laws were created. And that those without voter ID's tend to vote for freedom and democracy, rather than tyranny and oppression.
You are on the wrong side of freedom and liberty! Your 'evidence' is easily debunked with some research and study. Those three sources above are just a tiny amount to which I can unleash. And you STILL haven't explained why its 'ok' for the US Government to violate my 4th amendment rights. Do you even know...WHAT...the 4th amendment is defined?
quote:
ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I see who people vote for and hear why they placed those votes. Yeah, I don't trust a lot of American voters.
You see who people actually voted for? So, lets be clear before I call the FBI: You snuck into the actual voting booth and observed people voting in private, which is allowed under our form of government?
Thanks to the Affordable Cart Act of 2010, you can obtain therapy to help treat that paranoia you seem to have.....
quote:
ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:
ORIGINAL: joether
But that doesn't explain why they should get such a ID in the first place to vote. They state who they are and where they live. It is up to someone else to not only challenge them, but show evidence.
Again, that's pure horseshit.
Liar: "I'm John Q Public from 123 Main St."
Poll Worker: Here you go, John. Please sign here.
Me: That's not John Q Public. I live at 125 Main St and am John's neighbor, and I know for certain that is not John Q Public.
Ok, I'll walk you through how the law works in this case....
The accuser (you), would have to explain to a police officer that is typically on hand at the voting station (a judge of law) that the accused (i.e. the other person) is not true for one of three reasons:
A ) They are not who they say they are,
B ) They do not live where they say they live.
C ) A combination of A and B.
The police officer could then ask the accused to verify their information. Under US Law, the accused person (whether guilty or innocent) is not forced to give such information under the 4th or 5th amendments. Nor give that information to their accuser, whom could be an identity thief! The police officer takes out their smart phone (the police in Massachusetts are all issued one). They get the Mass DMV app (a law enforcement app), and plug in the name and/or address that accused originally gave (the accused can stay silent this entire time, under the law, thanks to the 5th amendment). The app will give the driver's license of the individual. This will include a PHOTO ID, their address, license #, driving restrictions, and past violations of the law. The police officer can also contact their police department for further information on the person's possible criminal violations as well.
So all the police officer has to do is hold the smartphone and PHOTO ID of the individual up to the accused person's face to make a determination of possible guilt or not.
The police officer is under no duty nor obligation to release....ANY...of the information to the accuser. Anyone that accused me of not being who I say I am nor living where I say I lived.....would get sued for every possible penny they own. So that idiot better be ready for a hellish court battle!
An individual when accused of....ANY CRIME....from jaywalking to capital murder, is considered....INNCOENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY....in a COURT OF LAW. You are aware of how the legal laws work in America, right? That there is a US Constitution and within it, a series of twenty-seven amendments?
quote:
ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
How is that to be proven? I can show my ID showing that I live right next door to John Q Public. I could also have it out for the guy and make the claim to spite him. What you're advocating is for people to not actually have to prove they are who they say they are. Why is that such a bad thing?
The fact that you can not imagine how this process would work speaks volumes of your creativity. Not to mention education, knowledge, intelligence and wisdom. People DONT have to prove it, DS, that's the WHOLE POINT OF THE 4th AMENDMENT:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, PAPERS, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Being a conservative and related to gun nuts, you tend to ignore those parts of the amendments that are politically inconvenient for you and your arguments. Unfortunately for you, the WHOLE law has to be followed.
quote:
ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:
ORIGINAL: joether
quote:
ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
But, again, how do we know that the person voting is actually a citizen of the US?
We ask them. "Are you a US Citizen?" "Yes" "Can you prove it?" "Yes, but why should I? I have a 4th amendment right under the US Constitution. Or do you want to challenge my Constitutional Rights?"
Would you challenge another person's Constitutional Right to vote, DS? Knowing nothing about the person other than they just walked in to vote?
Bullying me, now? Really?
The 4th Amendment - for the however many times it's been - is a protection against unreasonable search and seizure. I submit that this isn't really a search or a seizure, and isn't an unreasonable request to begin with.
And who decides if its unreasonable, DS? The Government or myself, the individual citizen? I feel its unreasonable that I have to be searched when I give such truthful and factual information when I state who I am and where I live. Given the depth of evidence and studies performed to date, I find voter fraud to not be a problem in elections. That conservatives like you, get OWNED in these debates because you lack the evidence and facts to support baseless accusations. That the conservative media behaves like a tyrannical state media service; spewing out false and misleading information to its mindless followers. You can not counter any of my arguments, because the media hasn't give you any talking points!
|
|
|
|
Profile
.gif){kind=avatar}
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread