quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

ObamaCare CAN'T be a failure and will never be a failure. It is now and was always meant to be a windfall for the medical insurance industry and providers of which there is a finely regulated, very profitable shortage.

It is merely a mandate that those that wouldn't otherwise but medical insurance, i.e., the young and healthy...now must buy it.

Oh yea, gee, there are actually some people in America that can't afford to buy health insurance whether they want it or not but unless they are actually poor enough for medicaid...then buck up MoFo, PAY the piper.

What's that...you're going to have to choose between health insurance and say food or rent ?

Ok, then the feds will help you out for you MUST participate in the new Insurance & Medical Services Welfare for-profit ACT called...ObamaCare.

You are mandated to be a health care profit center...or else.

Get a grip kinkroids, when will you learn ? This is America, where everything is...all about money.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Millions were forced out of their existing plans for this?

quote:


For Many New Medicaid Enrollees, Care Is Hard to Find, Report Says

WASHINGTON — Enrollment in Medicaid is surging as a result of the Affordable Care Act, but the Obama administration and state officials have done little to ensure that new beneficiaries have access to doctors after they get their Medicaid cards, federal investigators say in a new report.

The report, to be issued this week by the inspector general at the Department of Health and Human Services, says state standards for access to care vary widely and are rarely enforced. As a result, it says, Medicaid patients often find that they must wait for months or travel long distances to see a doctor.

Far right wing source

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
ObamaCare CAN'T be a failure and will never be a failure. It is now and was always meant to be a windfall for the medical insurance industry and providers of which there is a finely regulated, very profitable shortage.

It is merely a mandate that those that wouldn't otherwise but medical insurance, i.e., the young and healthy...now must buy it.

Oh yea, gee, there are actually some people in America that can't afford to buy health insurance whether they want it or not but unless they are actually poor enough for medicaid...then buck up MoFo, PAY the piper.

What's that...you're going to have to choose between health insurance and say food or rent ?

Ok, then the feds will help you out for you MUST participate in the new Insurance & Medical Services Welfare for-profit ACT called...ObamaCare.

You are mandated to be a health care profit center...or else.

Get a grip kinkroids, when will you learn ? This is America, where everything is...all about money.

You have a very good point.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
then quit bitchin about the cost of it!!

I don't bitch about the cost of it. I pay cash and it's usually cheaper that way. That was, until someone decided I had pay for insurance for everyone else.

Do you pay more than 8% of your net income for complete and full healthcare cover??
And get that same cover if you happen to fall out of work or get sick?

I'm willing to bet you pay a shitload more than that for not such good healthcare.
Single-payer systems, every single one of them around the world, are cheaper than individual insurance-based healthcare.
Do your own research and check the figures.

It just so happens that earlier this summer I spent a night in the hospital because of severe dehydration. Obviously, the question of whether or not I had insurance eventually came up. I answered "no" and the person asking the question went on with their business. Because of the symptoms I had, my stay included x-rays, blood draws, medication, and intraveinous fluids. The bill I eventually received was $3500.00 but the hospital offered to reduce it to $2000.00 (almost 50% off) if I payed in full within 30 days, which I did. Before that, the last time I was in a hospital was 6 years ago. Since I make too much money to qualify for subsidies, the cheapest healthcare plan I can find is about $225.00 per month. If I had been paying that for those 6 years I would have spent over $16,000.00 for absolutely nothing. So, from my point of view, I saved around $14,000.00. The majority of which has been collecting interest in a retirement account that I can access if I have a more serious medical bill later on.

I'm self-employed so my income goes up and down all the time. But in an average year I'd say I net about $40,000. If 8% of 40k is 3.2k then, no, I don't spend more than 8% of my net and the hospital does whatever I ask.

Now, you can throw all kinds of numbers around about all kinds of hypothetical situations but apparently I'm spending less than everyone else using insurance and the only people getting paid are the ones supplying the services.

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Healthcare providers aren't slaves, they fully deserve to profit from their labor. And Obama got everything he wanted, the Dems had full control at the time.

You don't have to profit from the ailments of others that are not in full health.
The state/government can cover cost. There doesn't need to be profit.

And no, the Dems lost more than 80% of what they wanted and it got replaced by another 11,000+ page addition of everything they didn't want!

Even I know that and I don't fuckin live there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Try again, those truly in need already had Medicare and Medicaid in the USA

Taxpayers shouldnt have provide for the able bodied

It boils down to this, politicians use the treasury to purchase elections and thats wrong

Medicare and Medicaid don't appear to be as comprehensive as our NHS or any of the other single-payer systems.

We have veteran in NC who is on one of those (can't remember which one) and he's forever bitchin about the long waits and bad service. The only good thing he has to say about it is his meds are paid for.

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

Did either of you actually....READ...the law? No, you didn't. You have been told 'how to' and 'what to' think on the issue by others that believe your too stupid and ignorant to think for yourselves.

When I ask conservatives 'What is the purpose of the Affordable Care Act' in one sentence and imply it as a serious question; they really cant give a better answer than 'I don't know'. Care to give it a try?

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
It's not just the insurance premiums and not just for hospital visits - it's everything medical.
That includes all deductables, ambulances, cost of every single hospital/clinic/GP visit and the meds and sundries used on those visits.
So far, you have been lucky that you are fit and well enough to have used a hospital only once in 6 years. If you think the hospital reduced the charges to only $2,000, they are still making a tidy profit so the rest of the original $3,500 bill is just pure greed profiteering!!

Now factor in all those years where you won't be working; either through illness, injury or the fact that you retired. In those 20-30 or more years, one would hope that you don't get too sick or have some nasty accident or recurring/incurable symptom that is going to leave you bankrupt or homeless because of the cost of an insurance-based healthcare system.
For single-payer systems, retired and non-working people (including all those under 18) get all this healthcare for free - and I really do mean "free", as in not costing you a single red cent for the remainder of your life (however long that might be).

Add up all those numbers over the cost of your lifetime until the day you die.
I bet it's a lot more than the $3.2k per year that you'd be contributing for a few years of relatively high income. If your income drops, your contributions also drop. If it falls below the tax threshold, it drops to a big fat zero.
Unless you are really really lucky and live a good healthy life then drop dead with no healthcare costs, the chances are that you'll incur more costs than what you paid in under a single-payer system while you were working.

So I stress again.... it's not just the cost of hospitals or the premiums - it's anything and everything medical for the whole of your life; not just the here-and-now.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
It's not just the insurance premiums and not just for hospital visits - it's everything medical.
That includes all deductables, ambulances, cost of every single hospital/clinic/GP visit and the meds and sundries used on those visits.
So far, you have been lucky that you are fit and well enough to have used a hospital only once in 6 years. If you think the hospital reduced the charges to only $2,000, they are still making a tidy profit so the rest of the original $3,500 bill is just pure greed profiteering!!

Now factor in all those years where you won't be working; either through illness, injury or the fact that you retired. In those 20-30 or more years, one would hope that you don't get too sick or have some nasty accident or recurring/incurable symptom that is going to leave you bankrupt or homeless because of the cost of an insurance-based healthcare system.
For single-payer systems, retired and non-working people (including all those under 18) get all this healthcare for free - and I really do mean "free", as in not costing you a single red cent for the remainder of your life (however long that might be).

Add up all those numbers over the cost of your lifetime until the day you die.
I bet it's a lot more than the $3.2k per year that you'd be contributing for a few years of relatively high income. If your income drops, your contributions also drop. If it falls below the tax threshold, it drops to a big fat zero.
Unless you are really really lucky and live a good healthy life then drop dead with no healthcare costs, the chances are that you'll incur more costs than what you paid in under a single-payer system while you were working.

So I stress again.... it's not just the cost of hospitals or the premiums - it's anything and everything medical for the whole of your life; not just the here-and-now.

Government involvement is the reason medical costs are as high as they are. The politicians wrote the rules that got us to where we are now

More government involvement will not help. Fat and sassy bureaucrats gum up the works, and once the politicians have control of your health care they literally have you by the balls

Its all about control, and purchasing votes with taxpayer dollars from ignoramuses such as yourself

There is no such thing as a free lunch

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Millions were forced out of their existing plans for this?

quote:



For Many New Medicaid Enrollees, Care Is Hard to Find, Report Says

WASHINGTON — Enrollment in Medicaid is surging as a result of the Affordable Care Act, but the Obama administration and state officials have done little to ensure that new beneficiaries have access to doctors after they get their Medicaid cards, federal investigators say in a new report.

The report, to be issued this week by the inspector general at the Department of Health and Human Services, says state standards for access to care vary widely and are rarely enforced. As a result, it says, Medicaid patients often find that they must wait for months or travel long distances to see a doctor.

Far right wing source

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

People who haven't lived with a free health system find it difficult to get their head round.

Just out of interest, what sort of money would this of cost me?

Recently I was whisked into hospital by ambulance. I was seen by a team of doctors who quickly discovered there was something wrong with my heart.
I was admitted for five days. I had my own room with all the mod cons, TV, internet, phone and a lovely view from my window and open visiting hours. I had a team of nurses and doctors looking after me including a cardiologist and neurologist who I saw every day. I had every available test known to man done on my heart and brain as well as too many blood tests to count. Since leaving hospital with meds, I have been back to outpatients no less than a dozen times.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB


One thing you would never hear an English man saying is, "why should we subsidise all those bums" but then we are a nation that firmly believe everyone deserves good medical care.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

In the past six weeks, thanks to a long standing anaemia issue(like many women) that suddenly got worse, which started with a docs visit after a blood test, ,I've had three more blood tests, two ultrasounds, three consultants visits, a gastroscopy, endoscopy and a liver biopsy, I am facing more surgery, a tumour in my pelvis and possible hysterectomy(again) (five days in hospital) and having my gallbladder removed (day surgery), oh and a blood transfusion, before that. More liver tests too
The only paperwork Ive had to submit is the new patient info for the new consultants. No requests from a government anyone(oh hang on the docs are paid by the government)
The only cost out of pocket is my tax bill. The only likely cost financially is my next tax bill. Or more medications from the docs involved.
Our medical "costs" are just over half the price of the US.
The doctors and nurses as well as the support staff are paid by the government, as they are in NHS hospitals in the UK.
I've received excellent care, in the past six weeks and I have no doubt that will continue for the next month or so.
Acute problems are much easier to pay for than Chronic issues!!!! well depending on your ability to pay cash at the time.


Oh BTW....Obamacare premium payments exceed experts' projections. About 9% of the 8 million people who signed up failed to pay during the program's first year, Congress was told on Thursday.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/obamacare-payments-exceed-expectations-article-1.1945412

The number of people who have signed up and paid for President Barack Obama's signature healthcare plan is higher than estimated, say officials.
Figures released on Thursday showed 7.3 million people had paid their monthly premium for the marketplace scheme.
Original independent forecasts had predicted six million users, and there was a botched launch last year.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-29262355

And
That predicted double-digit rise in Obamacare premiums? Not happening
http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-premiums-not-happening-20140905-column.html

Average 2015 Obamacare premiums will inch downward, initial study says
http://blogs.marketwatch.com/health-exchange/2014/09/05/average-2015-obamacare-premiums-will-inch-downward-initial-study-says/

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB


One thing you would never hear an English man saying is, "why should we subsidise all those bums" but then we are a nation that firmly believe everyone deserves good medical care.

Not true at all, Maria.

The statistics tell us that at least 80% of the NHS budget pays for a very small minority, usually with smoking/alcohol/other addiction problems.

Now, I have first hand experience of the way it works in the US.

One of our party fell over and broke her hand in New Orleans. We went to the hospital, and to their detriment they asked if we had insurance and treated my friend but they meant some sort of personal hospital insurance and we meant general travel insuranc e.

They didn't check and just went ahead with it. Now, I tell you what, it took the fuckers half an hour to walk up the corridor and back for a bandage and I'm looking at them and thinking are you lot on some serious mind bending drugs causing you not to get up a corridor in a reasonable amount of time?

When we got the bill a part of it was based on time spent in the hospital, and so the penny dropped.

No word of a lie, these people looked like they had all the time in the world. Never seen anything so lackadaisical. Not like an English hospital where they're running around like blue arsed flies.

I have experience of both, although admittedly limited experience of the American system.

All I can say is that if those fuckers in New Orleans had been working for me I'd have sacked the lot of 'em on the grounds of severe idleness. But, on the other hand, we, the responsible people of this country, are paying for a lot of people undertaking self-abuse.

quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

In the past six weeks, thanks to a long standing anaemia issue(like many women) that suddenly got worse, which started with a docs visit after a blood test, ,I've had three more blood tests, two ultrasounds, three consultants visits, a gastroscopy, endoscopy and a liver biopsy, I am facing more surgery, a tumour in my pelvis and possible hysterectomy(again) (five days in hospital) and having my gallbladder removed (day surgery), oh and a blood transfusion, before that. More liver tests too
The only paperwork Ive had to submit is the new patient info for the new consultants. No requests from a government anyone(oh hang on the docs are paid by the government)
The only cost out of pocket is my tax bill. The only likely cost financially is my next tax bill. Or more medications from the docs involved.
Our medical "costs" are just over half the price of the US.
The doctors and nurses as well as the support staff are paid by the government, as they are in NHS hospitals in the UK.
I've received excellent care, in the past six weeks and I have no doubt that will continue for the next month or so.
Acute problems are much easier to pay for than Chronic issues!!!! well depending on your ability to pay cash at the time.


Oh BTW....Obamacare premium payments exceed experts' projections. About 9% of the 8 million people who signed up failed to pay during the program's first year, Congress was told on Thursday.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/obamacare-payments-exceed-expectations-article-1.1945412

The number of people who have signed up and paid for President Barack Obama's signature healthcare plan is higher than estimated, say officials.
Figures released on Thursday showed 7.3 million people had paid their monthly premium for the marketplace scheme.
Original independent forecasts had predicted six million users, and there was a botched launch last year.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-29262355

And
That predicted double-digit rise in Obamacare premiums? Not happening
http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-premiums-not-happening-20140905-column.html

Average 2015 Obamacare premiums will inch downward, initial study says
http://blogs.marketwatch.com/health-exchange/2014/09/05/average-2015-obamacare-premiums-will-inch-downward-initial-study-says/

Hysterectomy Again?

This is why.... People in America want it to remain the same as it has... Because The Doctors tend to do a full removal surgery right the first time so it doesnt have to be done... "again"

Im all cool for single payer systems in the UK and Canada and Germany,

I am not now nor Ever okay with it being in the US... If we get it in the US, where are all the rich people from your countries going to go for their major surgeries? Its just not right to do to those people...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic



No
I had a tumour attached to my uterus three years ago, said they would give me a hysterectomy , but because it wasnt IN my uterus, but between my uterus and bowel, they just removed the tumour. This time they arent sure if its in or attached again, until they go in.
I didnt want to deal with HRT
Why remove a non diseased organ ??? One that is vital for natural hormones,, useless as a baby factory tho.
you wanna remove everything you dont need?
sure...smart idea.
They didnt take my lady parts out after I got pregnant after I had my tubes tied, they repaired it.


I dont give a shit what you are ok with:)
im not rich, and we have plenty of excellent facilities here, for the rich...who can buy you a spot faster because you are more superior
what are the poor to do, just die?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

no really??? fuck me... thanks for your insight
I said POSSIBLE hytsterectomy again
READ and comprehend