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RE: Another Huge Obamacare Fail - 9/28/2014 9:22:59 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten


The problem with this is you have no idea what else might have been going on at the hospital, for all you know a woman got into a car accident and needed the attention more then your friend who has nothing more then a broken hand. Should the woman who is bleeding to death wait for your friend with the broken hand?


The problem I see here, is not the care your friend got, but the entitlement you feel. The entitlement it seems like most people from other countries feel.




No, you fool.

Firstly, they brought out a bandage that would have looked out of place in the 12th century.

And, there was no one in the waiting room apart from one lady.

We had no problem with the fact that we were in the United States, their country to do as they please, but the service was shocking. Absolutely abysmal.

As said, they looked as stretched as a penguin surrounded by hundreds of other penguins, eating seaweed and contemplating where the next fish was coming from.

Honestly, I'd have sacked everyone of them. I'd have had a conversation asking them what the fuck is going on first, but without some sort of acknowledgement that this was a monumental piss take I'd have rushed them out the door.

This isn't an anti-American thing. The Americans were very good hosts while we were there. It was a pleasure to sit and have a chat with them.

But, this hospital thing was a shambles. Diabolical, and if you were paying them wages you'd have been scratching your head thinking I've got a problem here.

Oh, and we got a 3 grand bill and settled it, although I did send them and e-mail which broadly speaking said: "fucking shape up", but not in those words.


_____________________________

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to quizzicalkitten)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Another Huge Obamacare Fail - 9/28/2014 9:28:03 AM   
quizzicalkitten


Posts: 312
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten


The problem with this is you have no idea what else might have been going on at the hospital, for all you know a woman got into a car accident and needed the attention more then your friend who has nothing more then a broken hand. Should the woman who is bleeding to death wait for your friend with the broken hand?


The problem I see here, is not the care your friend got, but the entitlement you feel. The entitlement it seems like most people from other countries feel.




No, you fool.

Firstly, they brought out a bandage that would have looked out of place in the 12th century.

And, there was no one in the waiting room apart from one lady.

We had no problem with the fact that we were in the United States, their country to do as they please, but the service was shocking. Absolutely abysmal.

As said, they looked as stretched as a penguin surrounded by hundreds of other penguins, eating seaweed and contemplating where the next fish was coming from.

Honestly, I'd have sacked everyone of them. I'd have had a conversation asking them what the fuck is going on first, but without some sort of acknowledgement that this was a monumental piss take I'd have rushed them out the door.

This isn't an anti-American thing. The Americans were very good hosts while we were there. It was a pleasure to sit and have a chat with them.

But, this hospital thing was a shambles. Diabolical, and if you were paying them wages you'd have been scratching your head thinking I've got a problem here.

Oh, and we got a 3 grand bill and settled it, although I did send them and e-mail which broadly speaking said: "fucking shape up", but not in those words.




I forgot you were the all knowing all powerful jack in the box who could see through walls and know everything that was going on everywhere in the entire world... Its great to have you back...

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Another Huge Obamacare Fail - 9/28/2014 9:30:30 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten

Again Sweetheart Implies having one before....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I am facing more surgery, a tumour in my pelvis and possible hysterectomy(again)


I had the same issue three years ago
hence the (again)
They removed a tumour three years ago, left the normal parts intact...




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(in reply to quizzicalkitten)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Another Huge Obamacare Fail - 9/28/2014 9:31:54 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten


I forgot you were the all knowing all powerful jack in the box who could see through walls and know everything that was going on everywhere in the entire world... Its great to have you back...



Look, if you've got nothing to say of any use, then do yourself a favour.


_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to quizzicalkitten)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Another Huge Obamacare Fail - 9/28/2014 9:34:51 AM   
quizzicalkitten


Posts: 312
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten


I forgot you were the all knowing all powerful jack in the box who could see through walls and know everything that was going on everywhere in the entire world... Its great to have you back...



Look, if you've got nothing to say of any use, then do yourself a favour.




Like Laugh that when numbers are down magically all the old posters who havent posted in years magically appear to drum up content?

Yeah, Its good to see you again, brings me great amusement... They have your flavor of asshole off a little bit though...

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Another Huge Obamacare Fail - 9/28/2014 10:01:28 AM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Try again, those truly in need already had Medicare and Medicaid in the USA

Taxpayers shouldnt have provide for the able bodied

It boils down to this, politicians use the treasury to purchase elections and thats wrong

Medicare and Medicaid don't appear to be as comprehensive as our NHS or any of the other single-payer systems.

We have veteran in NC who is on one of those (can't remember which one) and he's forever bitchin about the long waits and bad service. The only good thing he has to say about it is his meds are paid for.



And just think, if we convert to a single payer system everyone in the country will be able to see first hand how bad it is. After all that is the goal right. Long waits and bad service for everyone.

Well, apparently, our "long waits" aren't a patch on your Medicaid/Medicare programs.
Not according to our Vet friend in NC - we are centuries in advance to what he gets; including better coverage and benefits and much faster treatment.
And like most half-baked systems you have over there, it's only a half-way shop and not a proper single-payer system. How do I know that?? Because everything under-pinning the Medicaid/Medicare system (meds, supplies, sundries, equipment etc) are supplied by, and profited by, insurance companies!!

In a single-payer system, insurance companies (if any) are an add-on for these things, not a replacement or basic foundation for the system.
And that is why both those systems are still a failure (and still expensive) compared to a properly-funded single-payer system.


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(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Another Huge Obamacare Fail - 9/28/2014 10:18:49 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten
I forgot you were the all knowing all powerful jack in the box who could see through walls and know everything that was going on everywhere in the entire world... Its great to have you back...

It's quite simple - the nonchalant unhurried attitude (sauntering up the corridor slowly to waste time) seems to me to depict someone NOT in a hurry... hence, there was NO emergency going on in the immediate vicinity!
If there was an emergency happening elsewhere within the hospital, it was blatantly obvious that it was a different department involving different staff.

It really doesn't take much to see when there is an emergency happening around you that would take away staff from something less serious.


_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to quizzicalkitten)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Another Huge Obamacare Fail - 9/28/2014 11:05:37 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB


One thing you would never hear an English man saying is, "why should we subsidise all those bums" but then we are a nation that firmly believe everyone deserves good medical care.



Not true at all, Maria.

The statistics tell us that at least 80% of the NHS budget pays for a very small minority, usually with smoking/alcohol/other addiction problems.



Its actually 70% and its chronic illness. That could be emphysema, COPD or cirrhosis of the liver but it could also be chronic heart or liver disease. It could Diabetes, Parkinson Disease, Multiple Schrelosis or any number of diseases that are incurable or related to old age.

Because we aren't privy to all allocations of funding (staff and research not included), we only get to see budget linked to patients.


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(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Another Huge Obamacare Fail - 9/28/2014 1:51:47 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Millions were forced out of their existing plans for this?


I still have my plan. What happened to yours?

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Another Huge Obamacare Fail - 9/30/2014 1:45:44 AM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
then quit bitchin about the cost of it!!

I don't bitch about the cost of it. I pay cash and it's usually cheaper that way. That was, until someone decided I had pay for insurance for everyone else.


The American health care system is the most expensive in the world, insurance considerations or no. It's in the OECD and elsewhere, along with the lower rating of outcomes, along with the fact that the US ranks with Turkey and Mexico as the only OECD countries with out a national plan. We're in good company, no?

And on the subject of "paying for others," if you have insurance on your car, your health, or anything else, and you are a responsible person, then you are a communist because your premiums are averaged out to cover the cost of those less responsible. Insurance even in the most capitalist country is socialism at its core.

My biggest gripe about health coverage comes when I see people eating double bacon cheeseburgers 5 times a week, after their 2 bacon-egg-cheese biscuits in the morning, and my premiums are paying for the inevitable massive surgery to keep these fuckwits alive against any proper evolutionary consideration. But all the insurance companies ask is if we smoke or not, because they're too busy eating their double bacon cheeseburgers to figure out anything else to ask.

And all that even before the Republican-written "Obana care."

All any insurance has ever been is voluntary communism, and that's a fact.

So now it's not even voluntary anymore that we all have to be communist rate payers for the dumbest eaters in the world to be eventually operated on and heavily medicated by the most expensive doctors and hospitals in the world, their having a mediocre track record for outcomes, at best.

Yeah, I can understand why people are pissed, but look at the people who hammered the law into what it is.




< Message edited by Edwynn -- 9/30/2014 2:19:44 AM >

(in reply to RottenJohnny)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Another Huge Obamacare Fail - 9/30/2014 3:22:08 AM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn
The American health care system is the most expensive in the world, insurance considerations or no. It's in the OECD and elsewhere, along with the lower rating of outcomes, along with the fact that the US ranks with Turkey and Mexico as the only OECD countries with out a national plan. We're in good company, no?

That's been my gripe all along.
With all the so-called boffins you have over there, you'd think they would be able to come up with something half-sensible wouldn't you?
It's a travesty that the US, for everything that it is and could be, just can't sort this expensive mess out.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn
My biggest gripe about health coverage comes when I see people eating double bacon cheeseburgers 5 times a week, after their 2 bacon-egg-cheese biscuits in the morning, and my premiums are paying for the inevitable massive surgery to keep these fuckwits alive against any proper evolutionary consideration. But all the insurance companies ask is if we smoke or not, because they're too busy eating their double bacon cheeseburgers to figure out anything else to ask.

You have something against double bacon cheeseburgers?
I guess not; but I get your point - people being stupidly and deliberately irresponsible.
I have the same issue with people who go out to deliberately get rat-assed drunk every night.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn
And all that even before the Republican-written "Obana care."

All any insurance has ever been is voluntary communism, and that's a fact.

So now it's not even voluntary anymore that we all have to be communist rate payers for the dumbest eaters in the world to be eventually operated on and heavily medicated by the most expensive doctors and hospitals in the world, their having a mediocre track record for outcomes, at best.

I dunno why you feel that insurance is inherently 'communism'?
It's just fiscally the best way to spread the cost over more people so the end result is (supposedly) better coverage at a lower individual cost.
That's how business makes a profit - by buying in bulk at a lower unit cost; it's the same principal.

Where the US goes horribly wrong, in healthcare in particular, is sheer greed on the part of those supplying (the for-profit insurance companies) and those healthcare workers at the top of the pyramid.
All the while there is profit to be made, that will always be the driving force.

And that is why every single-payer system will out-perform any profit-based system.
Single-payer systems don't need to make a profit to exist so they can concentrate on providing the service.
Any profit-based system has to make a profit or it dies and goes bankrupt.
So their emphasis is on making a profit as a business, not necessarily providing the service.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn
Yeah, I can understand why people are pissed, but look at the people who hammered the law into what it is.

When I first heard/read about what Obama wanted to put in place, it sounded quite good.
By the time the retards ripped it to shreds and added another 11,000+ pages of stupid crap to it, it was a very poor shadow of the original.
Better than nothing perhaps?? Barely!! And that's the shame of it.


_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Another Huge Obamacare Fail - 9/30/2014 4:58:53 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		Oh it's fucking mind boggling

Even before Obamacare the US government ALREADY paid more per head than most EU countries. That's BEFORE people's private insurance.

The healthcare spending per head in the US is more than DOUBLE that in European states.

The healthcare outcomes are at best comparable with European states, or WORSE.

As for why on earth republicans are so desperate to continue to pay DOUBLE for care that is the SAME or WORSE than that available in EU countries, I'm completely at a loss.

Plainly there's the myth of the "bums and freeloaders", which always surprises me when it comes up. You'd think that before using something like this as an argument the person would be just smart enough to actually check their facts. I bet the "bums and freeloaders" gambit is just as specious in this context as it is in the contect of the UK where it is used by moronic conservatives a lot. They talk about welfare being paid to bums and freeloaders, and then it turns out that more than 80% of welfare in the UK is paid to poor working people - People who are working in low paid (albeit often essential) jobs.

Then there's the "Punish the poor", because of course if you're poor it cannot be anyone else's fault but yours.

Whatever the reason, if you are against nationalised healthcare - which is FACTUALLY and DEMONSTRABLY more EFFECTIVE, less EXPENSIVE and delivers BETTER OUTCOMES then, well... you've just got to be a little bit stupid.

So, I think it really is up to the right wind ideologues to explain why they want to pay more for healthcare, even though it produces results that are no better, and in some cases somewhat worse?

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(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Another Huge Obamacare Fail - 9/30/2014 5:38:30 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Millions were forced out of their existing plans for this?


I still have my plan. What happened to yours?


Because you really believe you are everybody

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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Another Huge Obamacare Fail - 9/30/2014 6:13:59 AM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn
All any insurance has ever been is voluntary communism, and that's a fact.



quote:

I dunno why you feel that insurance is inherently 'communism'?


I was merely being facetious to the fatuous.

And the fatuous notion so heavily promulgated on these shores that the private sector is the answer to any and every prayer of mankind. The notion that any service provided by or administered by the government is only for crybaby communists. So, if we drive on public roads it's because we are crybaby communists. If we send our kids to public school (which actually means -public- school in the US), then we are crybaby communists. Because the mantra here is that any endeavor that might just possibly benefit anyone other than one's own self makes all of us crybaby communists.

Any insurance plan, of any sort, might just possibly benefit another by way of the premiums we pay. Crybaby communism, through and through.

And yeah, when the freakin' crybaby capitalists found their way to a financial melt down that wrecked economies across the world, you betcha they were screaming their lungs out for crybaby communism on that one.

Privatise all profit, socialise all losses.

Fucking communists.




< Message edited by Edwynn -- 9/30/2014 6:22:38 AM >

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Another Huge Obamacare Fail - 9/30/2014 8:22:42 AM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten


The problem with this is you have no idea what else might have been going on at the hospital, for all you know a woman got into a car accident and needed the attention more then your friend who has nothing more then a broken hand. Should the woman who is bleeding to death wait for your friend with the broken hand?


The problem I see here, is not the care your friend got, but the entitlement you feel. The entitlement it seems like most people from other countries feel.




No, you fool.

Firstly, they brought out a bandage that would have looked out of place in the 12th century.

And, there was no one in the waiting room apart from one lady.

We had no problem with the fact that we were in the United States, their country to do as they please, but the service was shocking. Absolutely abysmal.

As said, they looked as stretched as a penguin surrounded by hundreds of other penguins, eating seaweed and contemplating where the next fish was coming from.

Honestly, I'd have sacked everyone of them. I'd have had a conversation asking them what the fuck is going on first, but without some sort of acknowledgement that this was a monumental piss take I'd have rushed them out the door.

This isn't an anti-American thing. The Americans were very good hosts while we were there. It was a pleasure to sit and have a chat with them.

But, this hospital thing was a shambles. Diabolical, and if you were paying them wages you'd have been scratching your head thinking I've got a problem here.

Oh, and we got a 3 grand bill and settled it, although I did send them and e-mail which broadly speaking said: "fucking shape up", but not in those words.


I've found that American hospitals are a lot like American schools. There are some hospitals which are excellent, with top people who deliver first-class care, and then there are some which leave quite a bit to be desired. Just like with schools, it just depends on where you are and what part of town you're in.

Sure, you could sack the lot of them, but then you'd have to find skilled people to replace them - which may not be all that easy. I was reading an article recently that in the coming years, there could be an acute shortage of doctors, in addition to nursing shortages which have been ongoing for as long as I can remember. The article suggested that medical colleges may have to revise and update their methodology in order to speed up the process and fast-track more people to a medical degree. Then there are other medical-related professions such as lab tech, x-ray/imaging tech, etc., who also require training, which requires better schools, but that's another topic.

Honestly, I wish we had a better system here, but we're dealing with a political behemoth. I have insurance, although my observation has been that the cost of insurance continues to go up while what they offer seems less and less. It was different when I was a kid. Our parents never had to pay one dime in healthcare for any of us, as it was all covered by insurance from the company my father worked for. But now, it's a lot different.

Notwithstanding your bad experience with some bad healthcare workers, I don't really blame the healthcare workers themselves, not in general. Most doctors and nurses I've encountered are dedicated professionals who try their best, although I've encountered some duds as well, just as you have. (They may have been just tired. Sometimes, they work long hours with little sleep.) But I tend to look at the higher-ups in the organization, as well as the insurance companies themselves, as being the real culprits in this mess. The CEO of United Healthcare makes over $100 million per year. There's a lot of people pulling in the bucks on this whole enterprise of treating the sick and injured, other than the people who actually do it.


(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Another Huge Obamacare Fail - 9/30/2014 9:35:28 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny

We understand it. We just don't want it.


You are not we.

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Another Huge Obamacare Fail - 9/30/2014 9:36:40 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
ORIGINAL: Sanity

Healthcare providers aren't slaves, they fully deserve to profit from their labor.

The health care providers are being paid you disingenuous fraud.








(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Another Huge Obamacare Fail - 9/30/2014 9:39:22 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: Sanity


Healthcare providers aren't slaves, they fully deserve to profit from their labor. And Obama got everything he wanted, the Dems had full control at the time.


What shouldnt taxpayers provide for bums and other assorted freeloaders then

In idaho are all of the uninsured sick people freeloaders and bums ?


(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Another Huge Obamacare Fail - 9/30/2014 9:40:40 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny
I don't bitch about the cost of it. I pay cash and it's usually cheaper that way. That was, until someone decided I had pay for insurance for everyone else.

Just like you pay for the war in the sandbox. If you do not like my country get the fuck out.

(in reply to RottenJohnny)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Another Huge Obamacare Fail - 9/30/2014 9:41:50 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
ORIGINAL: Sanity


Of course its still paid for, with the added cost of a layer of stupid, lazy fat assed government bureaucrats whose job it is to rule over our lives

Would you have a cite for this moronic peurile opinion?

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 60
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