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RE: Pushing limits? - 10/5/2014 4:26:37 PM

Angelcurvysub

Posts: 13
Joined: 12/15/2012
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I appreciate this continued feed back and grateful that some men who are Doms are not all into anal play. Redmagic, I respect your choices, I agree to disagree. You may be missing out by not asking a woman out because there is a sexual activity she isn't into. Just my opinion, I doubt there are many people out there with no limits. No disrespect to those who choose to be a slave.

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 21

RE: Pushing limits? - 10/5/2014 4:37:25 PM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
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I think it is important for us to specify what is and is not a limit---I don't use the words 'hard' or 'soft' limits.
If I have never tried it before—it is not a limit. If I don't like something but it does me no harm, it is not a limit.

My limits are mine, period. They have been mine for a very long time and they will be mine whether any dominant I may be involved with is here or gone. Anyone who would tell me that they will not respect my limits gets ignored, blocked and deleted.

[quote ] On a personal note, if a woman says, "There is no chance, ever, that we will do sexual activity X," then there is a 0% chance I will ask that woman out. It's an indication of either selfishness, or untreated PTSD, and I don't need either in my life. [/quote]

And Red, sorry but not all limits are 'selfish' or a result of PTSD I love to be fisted---the orgasms are ongoing and unbelievably HAWT---but it reached the point that every time I was fisted I would develop a really awful UTI within a few days and they would reoccur over the next few months----if that is 'selfish' so be it!! the pain and cost of doctor visits and meds just were not worth it!

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"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
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Post #: 22

RE: Pushing limits? - 10/5/2014 4:42:34 PM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Angelcurvysub
I appreciate this continued feed back and grateful that some men who are Doms are not all into anal play. Redmagic, I respect your choices, I agree to disagree. You may be missing out by not asking a woman out because there is a sexual activity she isn't into. Just my opinion, I doubt there are many people out there with no limits. No disrespect to those who choose to be a slave.

There are plenty of things I'm not into that I do anyway, because it improves my life, or the lives of people I care about. Doing things we aren't into is part of being a mature adult with responsibilities that are larger than just me. It isn't a question of being a slave.

The fact is, I recognize that what I have to offer is valuable. I would do pretty much anything for someone I love. So, given that, why on earth should I settle for someone who didn't feel the same way about me?

There's a lot of insecure people in BDSM -- a lot of obesity, and a lot of social awkwardness, as well as fear that "no one will ever love me for me, because my desires are so weird." And so people look for, and accept, broken partners, because they feel they are broken themselves. I don't consider that to be a successful relationship strategy. I think it makes more sense to work on yourself, until you are the most sane and healthy version of yourself that you can be, and then use that to attract sane and healthy people into your sexual life.

EDIT: Just saw your post, catize. I hear what you're saying, but I have to think that's a medically solvable problem. Up the cleanliness somehow, to stop the infection? Only use gloves that go up to the elbow or something. Anyway, I don't know what you've tried, and it's none of my business, but if I were the guy in the situation, I'd start asking doctors how best to do something my partner and I enjoyed, without infecting her.

< Message edited by RedMagic1 -- 10/5/2014 4:46:09 PM >

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Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

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Post #: 23

RE: Pushing limits? - 10/5/2014 4:53:39 PM

Gauge

Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
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This is a fast reply.

I once had someone contact me and tell me that they were a no limit slave. I wrote back to them and asked if they were cool with death and dismemberment or if it was a hard limit for them. They never wrote back to me.

Did I handle that wrong?

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Post #: 24

RE: Pushing limits? - 10/5/2014 5:35:14 PM

catize

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We tried everything you suggested, then went to the urologist who also suggested the same things and finally she said "If it hurts when ya do that, don't do that!" Disappointing, but true.

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"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

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Post #: 25

RE: Pushing limits? - 10/5/2014 6:59:00 PM

shiftyw

Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
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Also, I'm going to do the "unsubbly" thing right now and say...

sometimes when it comes to my own mental state and personal well being...I'm ok with being a little selfish.

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Post #: 26

RE: Pushing limits? - 10/5/2014 7:08:08 PM

shiftyw

Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Angelcurvysub
I appreciate this continued feed back and grateful that some men who are Doms are not all into anal play. Redmagic, I respect your choices, I agree to disagree. You may be missing out by not asking a woman out because there is a sexual activity she isn't into. Just my opinion, I doubt there are many people out there with no limits. No disrespect to those who choose to be a slave.

There are plenty of things I'm not into that I do anyway, because it improves my life, or the lives of people I care about. Doing things we aren't into is part of being a mature adult with responsibilities that are larger than just me. It isn't a question of being a slave.

The fact is, I recognize that what I have to offer is valuable. I would do pretty much anything for someone I love. So, given that, why on earth should I settle for someone who didn't feel the same way about me?

There's a lot of insecure people in BDSM -- a lot of obesity, and a lot of social awkwardness, as well as fear that "no one will ever love me for me, because my desires are so weird." And so people look for, and accept, broken partners, because they feel they are broken themselves. I don't consider that to be a successful relationship strategy. I think it makes more sense to work on yourself, until you are the most sane and healthy version of yourself that you can be, and then use that to attract sane and healthy people into your sexual life.
<snip>

I think you're going to be waiting a long time for Mrs. Magic.

Sometimes people are just wired wrong- sometimes circumstances cause it- either way, many work on it, and through working it out- discover that to maintain themselves as a healthy sane person, somethings may be off limits.

If someone has depression. If sexual humiliation triggers that depression and suicidal thoughts, perhaps they best avoid sexual humiliation, right?

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 27

RE: Pushing limits? - 10/5/2014 8:01:18 PM

FieryOpal

Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

Also, I'm going to do the "unsubbly" thing right now and say...

sometimes when it comes to my own mental state and personal well being...I'm ok with being a little selfish.

There's nothing unsubbly about that. Ultimately it's going to come back on you whether you are taking personal responsibility for yourself, s-type or not.

I didn't want to give the impression that I was being critical of OP or her choices. She didn't take it that way, but I can see where a reading comprehension-challenged poster might have misunderstood my intent as not being RESPECTFUL of OP's own limit as disclosed. (I also knew I didn't have time to send her a PM separately, since I once considered this to be a Hard Limit of mine with my first steady bf, but in retrospect it was more of a Soft Limit back then.)

I'm a straight Domme and have no vested interest in seeing anyone making lasting and irrevocable compromises they shouldn't have to, or do something they would deeply regret later;
or (with a male sub) be with somebody who would act as if he were doing me a HUGE favor, or making a tremendous sacrifice by dutifully pleasing me in the manner that I wish to be pleased instead of eagerly seeking to please me within our mutually agreed-upon limits.

Unfortunately, there are manipulative Dominants with ego insecurity issues who don't know how to properly take care of their playtoys. I hear many stories of what this cruel Mistress did or that cruel Mistress ended up damaging one of their submissives, oftentimes on a long-term basis; ones who weren't masochistic but desperate to find a Domme and mistakenly believed that all Dominants are sadistic and that this goes with the territory of being Dominated or Topped.

I have a girlfriend who is a switchy femsub. She has both oral and anal as Hard Limits. She doesn't even like receiving oral. (Go figure...

) Somehow she manages to get all kinds of vanilla dates, no problem, and has more than one regular FWB. Invariably, though, the very first thing that these men - whether they are Doms or not - swoop in and fixate upon is trying to push or impinge upon her Hard Limits. It's as if they cannot resist trying to get her to break one or both of her private taboos.

So by all means, don't bow to any semblance of "peer pressure" as orgasmdenial12 advised already, not when it comes to regular sex, kinky sex, or BDSM activities that don't appeal to you or turn you on. It isn't just submissives who feel that internal pressure to act *subbly* enough; Dominants feel a similar pressure to act *Dom/mely* enough for the s-type they're interested in impressing, even before they are officially in a D/s relationship dynamic. It's a tightrope walk in my case, getting taken seriously as a Domme without pulling rank prematurely on male subs who cannot distinguish the difference between treating a woman like a lady and behaving themselves as a gentleman should.

[Edited for clarity--@shifty, I knew you were referring to PTSD.]

< Message edited by FieryOpal -- 10/5/2014 8:38:25 PM >

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Post #: 28

RE: Pushing limits? - 10/5/2014 8:10:52 PM

shiftyw

Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline

I agree with allllll of that Fiery.

I was actually responding to RedMagic's:
"Signs of untreated PTSD or selfishness"

(in reply to FieryOpal)

Post #: 29

RE: Pushing limits? - 10/5/2014 8:40:41 PM

DaddySatyr

Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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Just a very general reply ...

For the life of me, I have never seen the point in pushing limits. Finding someone whose limitations meet my expectations is important.

I was once involved (briefly) with a lady who seemed to be bi-curious and definitely wanted me to "push" her into the activity. She said as much. That part is not conjecture.

I have never been comfortable with that kind of thing.

However (I'm a dichotic sumbich. There's always a "however" or a "but"

) ...

I have been more than willing to encourage (losing weight, giving up smoking, etc.) certain behaviors that were beneficial to ladies I've known. I see this as a big difference. "Would you please put me on an exercise schedule?" is much different than: "Look, woman, you need to lose weight or I'm outta here!"

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

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Post #: 30

RE: Pushing limits? - 10/5/2014 8:58:27 PM

SeekingTrinity

Posts: 1834
Joined: 5/29/2012
From: The 'burbs of Portland, OR
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~FRing it~

What I've seen is that people seem to fall into one of two categories: limit/no limit OR hard/soft limit. Neither is wrong at all, but you do need to make sure your partner sees things the same way as you do.

My guy and I are hard/soft limit people. We filled out BDSM checklists for each other and we both know where the boundaries lay (hard limits aka NO FUCKING WAY IN HELL) and where we can tread carefully (soft limits aka not my cup of tea but not declared oh hell no either). For us, we see certain limits as ones we can push and others as places we do not want to go.

It's important...and okay...for you to set your limits, OP. And to not be with anyone who you feel cannot respect you.

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 31

RE: Pushing limits? - 10/5/2014 9:08:36 PM

LittleGirlHeart

Posts: 1427
Joined: 4/4/2013
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Personally, i dont like cum, ithink it's nasty andrefuse to let partners cum in my mouth, an it has.nothing to do with un treated ptsd and it'd only be selfish if i expected him to do something he hated the taste of. Which i don't. It's my body, my mouth, my rights to refuse to do things with it itruely hate, so i am ok with someone thinking I Am selfish.

< Message edited by LittleGirlHeart -- 10/5/2014 9:16:03 PM >

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There ours shall go singing

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Post #: 32

RE: Pushing limits? - 10/6/2014 2:27:56 PM

RedMagic1

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Joined: 5/10/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw
I think you're going to be waiting a long time for Mrs. Magic.

Sometimes people are just wired wrong- sometimes circumstances cause it- either way, many work on it, and through working it out- discover that to maintain themselves as a healthy sane person, somethings may be off limits.

If someone has depression. If sexual humiliation triggers that depression and suicidal thoughts, perhaps they best avoid sexual humiliation, right?

You realize I'm in a serious relationship, right? And, beyond that, we both see other people within certain parameters, and I played with a kinky woman for the first time last weekend? I think you would consider both of those women to be "attractive" and "good personality." My romantic life is fine. I even have a phone number another lady gave me that I haven't bothered to call back yet.

There are millions of women in the world who are intelligent, fit, and physically and mentally healthy. And I mean that literally: there are millions of such women in the world. Sure, some people are wired wrong, as you say, but I am missing out on nothing romantically if I tell them I just want to be friends.

The way you phrase your post, you make it sound as though everyone who posts here must be maladjusted. And that's just not true -- or, at least, it didn't used to be true. It's also untrue that men are hurting for romantic options. I'm a not-ugly guy in a modest position of authority who treats the women in my life well, and women seem to value that.

Bottom line: the more things you won't do for your partner, the fewer potential partners you'll have a chance with.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to shiftyw)

Post #: 33

RE: Pushing limits? - 10/6/2014 4:56:42 PM

shiftyw

Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
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I just don't think there is such a thing as 'no limits'
And I don't think everyone is maladjusted. I think everyone has problems or rough patches. I don't really give a shit about how many numbers you have, I argue that your no limit girls, have limits.

I mean unless all three are gonna let you kill them? Deficate in their mouths every time you have to go? Beastiality? Incest?

Should I continue?

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 34

RE: Pushing limits? - 10/6/2014 5:13:58 PM

RedMagic1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

I just don't think there is such a thing as 'no limits'
And I don't think everyone is maladjusted. I think everyone has problems or rough patches. I don't really give a shit about how many numbers you have, I argue that your no limit girls, have limits.

I mean unless all three are gonna let you kill them? Deficate in their mouths every time you have to go? Beastiality? Incest?

Should I continue?

Should I take it as a concession that instead of trying to argue the point about verbal humiliation, you jumped all the way to acts that are illegal in many states and countries?

There's a big difference between telling someone, "You can't ever call me a slut," or, "You can't ever stick a finger in my ass," and telling someone, "I won't ever fuck my relatives while you watch."

I can tell the first two women, "thanks but no thanks," and the third woman will never even tell me the incest sentence, because it won't even come up in conversation. I'm not going to ask someone I care about to risk imprisonment or death.

You may think this limits the dating pool, but it doesn't, at least not in my experience. If anything, once I got more selective, I got more action. The fact that women need to impress me makes women feel safer around me. They know I'm not going to pursue them for a shallow reason. Standards and boundaries are sexy.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to shiftyw)

Post #: 35

RE: Pushing limits? - 10/6/2014 5:31:10 PM

shiftyw

Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
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You said if a chick said "I won't ever do sexual activity x" she was damaged and undateable, you don't think that's a sweeping generalization?

You're implying that if they aren't open to everything you suggest, they are damaged or selfish, Would you fuck a man? If you identify as straight? I mean to broaden your experiences?

I just think people can have legit reasons to not do something. You don't. I think it's fine your not into someone, but to tell the OP it's cool to not have limits, is pretty poor advice.

Personally, I don't do rape play, I have PTSD, that is treated, stuff is off limits BECAUSE it's treated. Does that make sense?

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Post #: 36

RE: Pushing limits? - 10/6/2014 6:02:21 PM

RedMagic1

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Joined: 5/10/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

You said if a chick said "I won't ever do sexual activity x" she was damaged and undateable, you don't think that's a sweeping generalization?

You're implying that if they aren't open to everything you suggest, they are damaged or selfish, Would you fuck a man? If you identify as straight? I mean to broaden your experiences?

I just think people can have legit reasons to not do something. You don't. I think it's fine your not into someone, but to tell the OP it's cool to not have limits, is pretty poor advice.

Personally, I don't do rape play, I have PTSD, that is treated, stuff is off limits BECAUSE it's treated. Does that make sense?

Why on earth are you telling me who I am allowed to choose to date, or not to date? I'm not "advising" anyone else what to do; I'm explaining a particular decision-making process of my own. For example, I wouldn't date you (not that you're offering), because of your PTSD. I have dated women with, for example, a history of childhood sexual abuse, but they had gotten through it enough that there wasn't any part of their body that was off limits.

You're the one going from zero to incest in 60 seconds, not me. I'm saying, "If you want a chance with me, you have to be mentally and physically healthy." That isn't an unreasonable position. And even if it is unreasonable in some bizarro world, I'm not hurting anyone by taking it, except potentially myself if it causes me to die alone.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to shiftyw)

Post #: 37

RE: Pushing limits? - 10/6/2014 7:56:16 PM

shiftyw

Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
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You're missing my point a bit.

I don't give a rats ass who you date.

I really just think this:

quote:

It's an indication of either selfishness, or untreated PTSD, and I don't need either in my life.

is a narrow scope of why anyone would say "I won't have anal/humiliation/rape play/insert x here"

Perhaps I am misunderstanding you- but what you consider "selfish" I consider "self preservation" in many cases. Your sentence implies, and while not direct advice- you're on a board where anyone can see it- that subs/slaves/bottoms are not allowed to feel they need to keep themselves safe. It puts pressure on many reading this to do things because it seems "cool" and "high and mighty"- or as you said- out of insecurity and wanting to fit in so badly. If someone has a diagnosed injury, or mental illness, and they go against their doctors orders to prove to this community they aren't damaged- do you not feel that is a bad situation all around?

I think you're misjudging a whole group of folks. I take issue with THAT. Not who you date, your lack of understanding about why one might set a limit, and the narrow scope you set about it- is what I am trying to discuss with you.

If I am misunderstanding your post- and you feel there are more reasons someone would set a limit, legitimate reasons, for their own personal safety- by all means, I'm sorry.

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 38

RE: Pushing limits? - 10/6/2014 8:19:27 PM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
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But they *are* damaged, shiftyw. I use machines in a gym instead of jogging because I damaged my knees. You keep on talking about "legitimacy." Well, you're describing people who are "legitimately" damaged if a certified medical professional says, "Because of X, you can't do Y." A marathoner who wants a running partner is unlikely to date me because my knees are bad. I recognize this. That doesn't mean I'm going to go running anyway, to fake-show-off that my knees are fine, see, you can date me now. Why not? Because I accept that my limitations disqualify me from consideration by some potential partners.

If a sub woman violates medical advice in order to gain short-term attention from men at a kink club, then she's way more fucked up than just having a bad past. She, on some level, hates herself. I didn't create that in her by posting on a message board.

I choose not to date women with psychological damage. This isn't a revolutionary position on my part. Maybe that's why you're abreacting? Because you know I'm saying out loud something that is widely understood, even if it isn't often mentioned here? "Don't stick your dick in crazy," is the bro code way to phrase it. If she's going to punish me because of something someone else did to her in the past, then she can look for somebody else to spend time with.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to shiftyw)

Post #: 39

RE: Pushing limits? - 10/6/2014 8:57:21 PM

GoddessManko

Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

Perhaps I am misunderstanding you- but what you consider "selfish" I consider "self preservation" in many cases. Your sentence implies, and while not direct advice- you're on a board where anyone can see it- that subs/slaves/bottoms are not allowed to feel they need to keep themselves safe. It puts pressure on many reading this to do things because it seems "cool" and "high and mighty"- or as you said- out of insecurity and wanting to fit in so badly. If someone has a diagnosed injury, or mental illness, and they go against their doctors orders to prove to this community they aren't damaged- do you not feel that is a bad situation all around?

I think you're misjudging a whole group of folks. I take issue with THAT. Not who you date, your lack of understanding about why one might set a limit, and the narrow scope you set about it- is what I am trying to discuss with you.

If I am misunderstanding your post- and you feel there are more reasons someone would set a limit, legitimate reasons, for their own personal safety- by all means, I'm sorry.

Well I will try to put some perspective on this if I can. I, myself, have been threw a slew of transitions and evolutions in my life. Meaning, it's to the point where when I look at myself at 16, it's like looking at someone else's life.
I would hope a D will never dare damage a sub. I feel like the Johari window was a good depiction of where a D should be with his/ her sub. Able to gauge (used your name

) both the known and unknown.
I have discovered parts of me I never knew existed through loving someone and sometimes that happens.
If you love someone enough you are willing to compromise and even change completely. For better or worse, hopefully it is a beneficial and learning experience which all experiences good and bad are supposed to be. Difficult experiences can do two things, break us or make us better.
I would say, self examination is very important, at least annually, "who am I now, who was I last year, have I grown as a person?"
These questions should always be asked.
I understand this was the angle RedMagic1 was approaching but maybe it was misunderstood. D/s and everything in between should strive for some level of personal growth, it's how we better ourselves overall. I might say today "I will never skydive!" and I have but who knows what the me 5 years in the making has to say about that.
Just some food for thought.

< Message edited by GoddessManko -- 10/6/2014 8:59:03 PM >

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The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

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Post #: 40

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