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When submission stops being about submission - 7/12/2006 8:58:40 AM   
MHOO314


Posts: 3628
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		.. and starts to become domineering even dominance--
 
Inspired by a current thread about times when a dominant just doesn't feel like or can't carry the weight for a tad...
 
What happens when a submissive begins to demonstrate even enforce domineering tendencies----determining that the Dominant in their opinion may have weaknesses ( I am not talking of a train wreck waiting to happen...) or that the submissive always knows better?  These may even bleed into dominance--pointing out inconsistencies and flaws in the Dominants thinking, decisions, etc.--what happens then?

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RE: When submission stops being about submission - 7/12/2006 9:05:24 AM   
diamonddreamlove


Posts: 770
Joined: 5/19/2006
Status: offline 		LOL well then i would say the sub is not doing his or her job.  Can't imagine trying that one and getting by with it even if the Dom were feeling a tad weak.

(in reply to MHOO314)
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RE: When submission stops being about submission - 7/12/2006 9:18:01 AM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline 		Like everything else, this boils down to the individual relationship.  Some people prefer being/having a passive slave or submissive; some expect a more challenging relationship.

If something is happening in your relationship, talk it over with the other person.  If the situation you desire cannot be restored, it's time to consider if another relationship might be better or if the satisfactory factors outweigh the unsatisfactory ones.

There isn't any one true way to handle things

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

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RE: When submission stops being about submission - 7/12/2006 9:24:06 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I think that an intelligent submissive is an asset for their dominant. I believe that a submissive that can point out alternative views, scenarios, and routes to a dominant is providing a service to their dominant. Of course the final decision lies with the dominant on what course of action to take after they have acquired all the information they need to make a decision.. but a submissive that gives input is a plus to a dominant in my mind.

Take the role of president of the USA, he has advisors and a cabinet to help him oversee this country. If he didn't get input from them then he would not be as effective in his job. The decisions are his to make, but he relies on others to help him gather the knowledge he needs to make those decisions. The best leader is someone that knows how to delegate responsibilty in a way that everything that needs to be done gets done.. that is my idea of the role of a dominant in my life..

If I was with a dominant that did not value my opinions I do not think I would be happy. We will not always see eye to eye, but I must trust that his decisions will be the right ones, and be supportive even if he makes a mistake and chooses the wrong course.. even if I suggested a more productive course that he thought better of I would not tell him "I told you so". The decisions are his to make, and my job is to be supportive of him.

These are just my thoughts on the matter .. although other people have other needs in their relationships than I personally have and would be better suited to a different style of relationship

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 7/12/2006 9:29:54 AM >

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RE: When submission stops being about submission - 7/12/2006 9:31:00 AM   
reticence


Posts: 180
Joined: 2/28/2006
Status: offline 		I guess it is a matter of degree and intent.

If the submissive is sensing that the Dom is needing a break and is willing to take over, for a bit, then i guess it is ok, as long as the Dom makes it clear when the boundaries are being transgressed to an uncomfortable degree.  Again, it is all about communication and as John Warren says, what each individual relationship can handle.  Being submissive is not all about being weak, many of us are good managers and can take over... this is really about serving and meeting the needs of the Dom at any given time. Sometimes carrying the burden IS being of service, service can take many forms at diferent times.

I am sure there are submissives that are lying in wait for weakness in the Dom that they can exploit... pointing out flaws with the intent of denigration... this is not acceptable, in my opinion.

Funny how that line can blur, though... in the first case, a submissive might point out specific behaviors (tiredness, crabbiness, stressfulness)  or even physical things (looking tired, bags under the eyes, paleness, for instance) to open up the eyes of Dom that perhaps they are overdoing, burned out, as a form of service to a Dom in denial, and offer to take on more of the load... where the submissive in the second case could be pointing out the same things as a form of putting the Dom down, telling them they are not "DOM" enough. 

It is individual to each relationship the degree to which the submissive can take over and for how long... but i think intent is of primary importance.  Communicate, comunicate, communicate.

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RE: When submission stops being about submission - 7/12/2006 9:48:16 AM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline 		What typically happens is their feet barely touch the floor as they are booted to the curb. In my eyes, when one is no longer submissive and conducts themself in such a manner then there isn't a relationship anymore.They are no longer of value then. And why would I keep something that has no value.

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If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

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RE: When submission stops being about submission - 7/12/2006 10:36:06 AM   
PlayfulOne


Posts: 1047
Status: offline 		Amen

K

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RE: When submission stops being about submission - 7/12/2006 11:48:28 AM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		Easy, you just ask them why they are hanging out with an incompetent, and help them pack for the move.

From a personal perspective, if my ways are not good enough, I will respect her right to hit the road. This doesn't mean I don't recognize my own work that needs to be done-only that it's for me to change-not anyone else.

But you know, I just can't live with negativity or drama. And I will happily gift that to someone else. But not in my house.

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RE: When submission stops being about submission - 7/12/2006 11:50:00 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		I think it depends on what you mean here by pointing things out to the dominant.

You can point out things respectfully and that, in my opinion, is part of being in service.

Caring for your dominant is also part of the good relationship.

So when Fox comes upstairs to ask "Did you take your meds, Mistress" or "Time for weights?" he isn't being bossy to me, he's doing what I asked him to do. Remind me to take better care of myself because I'm so busy at times I would forget to do things I really should.

Also getting positive feedback for doing things works well for doms as it does for subs.

But if its done in a negative way then not only is that not being submissive that might boarder to on abusive in my opinion from either side of the Ds equation.

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Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

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RE: When submission stops being about submission - 7/12/2006 11:51:33 AM   
irishbynature


Posts: 551
Joined: 5/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MHOO314
What happens when a submissive begins to demonstrate even enforce domineering tendencies----determining that the Dominant in their opinion may have weaknesses ( I am not talking of a train wreck waiting to happen...) or that the submissive always knows better?  These may even bleed into dominance--pointing out inconsistencies and flaws in the Dominants thinking, decisions, etc.--what happens then?

If that were to occur, the Dominant has let go of His end of the deal--to control, protect, and be obeyed.



_____________________________


What seems nasty, painful, or evil, can become a source of beauty, joy, and strength, for those who have the vision to recognize it as such. Henry Miller


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RE: When submission stops being about submission - 7/12/2006 12:05:30 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44

What typically happens is their feet barely touch the floor as they are booted to the curb. In my eyes, when one is no longer submissive and conducts themself in such a manner then there isn't a relationship anymore.They are no longer of value then. And why would I keep something that has no value.

Just out of interest - if you had a submissive personality who was very much so when you started out, then began showing dominant tendancies, and you were responsible as she/he is under your control, you would really just kick them to the curb?  Or would you discuss their behaviour and maybe help them, assist them in moving forward?  I am not really talking about a submissive person who was trying to top from below, but a person who was genuinely progressing onto another level - even maybe as a switch?
 
Peace and Rapture


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...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

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RE: When submission stops being about submission - 7/12/2006 12:29:48 PM   
Submotive


Posts: 440
Joined: 9/9/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MHOO314

.. and starts to become domineering even dominance--
 
Inspired by a current thread about times when a dominant just doesn't feel like or can't carry the weight for a tad...
 
What happens when a submissive begins to demonstrate even enforce domineering tendencies----determining that the Dominant in their opinion may have weaknesses ( I am not talking of a train wreck waiting to happen...) or that the submissive always knows better?  These may even bleed into dominance--pointing out inconsistencies and flaws in the Dominants thinking, decisions, etc.--what happens then?

How does a sub "enforce" domineering tendancies? When any indication of Dominance rears up with me, Master is quick to notice and nip it in the butt - LOL. This does not mean He doesn't very much appreciate my opinions and perspectives. However, i am permitted to discuss them with Him - not demand anything or try to force my views on Him. He maintaines the ultimate control. That's O/our agreement and i respect it. So i submit to His decisions and desires.



_____________________________

Owned by Scotch Master

i would rather continue alone than be permitted to show only parts of myself to my Beloved.

If you're not living as you would like to today, when are you going to start?

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RE: When submission stops being about submission - 7/12/2006 12:36:55 PM   
Sparr0w


Posts: 15
Joined: 7/11/2006
From: Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MHOO314

.. and starts to become domineering even dominance--
 
Inspired by a current thread about times when a dominant just doesn't feel like or can't carry the weight for a tad...
 
What happens when a submissive begins to demonstrate even enforce domineering tendencies----determining that the Dominant in their opinion may have weaknesses ( I am not talking of a train wreck waiting to happen...) or that the submissive always knows better?  These may even bleed into dominance--pointing out inconsistencies and flaws in the Dominants thinking, decisions, etc.--what happens then?

I have been there. It is not a pretty place to find oneself. I ended up taking a long, hard look at the relationship, and then ending it. 

(in reply to MHOO314)
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RE: When submission stops being about submission - 7/12/2006 12:39:10 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44

What typically happens is their feet barely touch the floor as they are booted to the curb. In my eyes, when one is no longer submissive and conducts themself in such a manner then there isn't a relationship anymore.They are no longer of value then. And why would I keep something that has no value.

Just out of interest - if you had a submissive personality who was very much so when you started out, then began showing dominant tendancies, and you were responsible as she/he is under your control, you would really just kick them to the curb?  Or would you discuss their behaviour and maybe help them, assist them in moving forward?  I am not really talking about a submissive person who was trying to top from below, but a person who was genuinely progressing onto another level - even maybe as a switch?
 
Peace and Rapture


I know you didn't ask this of me but since I have been in a situation where my submissive became a switch, let me put in my two cents.

She'd always been in control of her other relationships and had grown weary of it...or so she thought.  When she and I connected, she had no problem being my submissive and was, in all actuality, a great submissive.  Somewhere during the course of our relationship, she began feeling those 'control' tendencies begin to come into play again.  She never tried to use them with me.  She instead respected me enough to communicate to me what she was feeling and we began discussing and probing.  I came to find out that when around others involved in D/s, submissive feelings on her part were elicited by very few...me and a couple of other dominants that she had known long-term.  Dominant feelings were being elicited more and more.  We eventually moved to a 'break' in the relationship wherein she began acting on her dominance with others and I became her guide...at least initially. 

All that was said to say this:  if a submissive that I was with began experiencing those dominant feelings and acted in the same way that the one described above did...then no, I would not kick them to the curb...I would help them.  If they acted in such a way as to try and dominate me, begin pointing out my flaws in an attempt to denigrate or as a tit-for-tat reasoning for their misbehavior, or to begin to cut back on those areas where I had control...then yeah, there might be some discussion and a chance to get back to where we had been...but it would be on a short leash.  If that leash was snapped, then yeah, I would kick them to the curb.  Life is too short to spend months trying to get someone who was submissive towards you to see that they are no longer acting that way or in trying to help someone who either doesn't want it or figures they do not have to remain submissive to you while they are learning the ropes of dominance.

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RE: When submission stops being about submission - 7/12/2006 3:10:17 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		MH, if that happens you tie them down to the bed for a long time until they calm the feck down!

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RE: When submission stops being about submission - 7/12/2006 3:23:54 PM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MHOO314

What happens when a submissive begins to demonstrate even enforce domineering tendencies----determining that the Dominant in their opinion may have weaknesses ( I am not talking of a train wreck waiting to happen...) or that the submissive always knows better?  These may even bleed into dominance--pointing out inconsistencies and flaws in the Dominants thinking, decisions, etc.--what happens then?


When the slightest ghost of question or defiance occurs in one's servant, such a slip of decorum is to be called by name and corrected immediately. Not doing so will only compound and enable further disobedience and the erosion of authority. As with a pet or child, it behooves one to keep patterns of negative behavior from recurring unchecked. Just as we do not blame the owned dog for its ill-temperment, so too must we look within ourselves to understand if we unwittingly fostered disobedience in our servants through our own actions—or lack thereof.


"Beat and cuff your slave, keep him hungry and spiritless, and he will follow the chain of his master like a dog; but, feed and clothe him well, work him moderately, surround him with physical comfort and dreams of freedom intrude. Give him a bad master, and he aspires to a good master; give him a good master, and he wishes to become his own master. Such is human nature."

— Frederick Douglas, 1817–1895







< Message edited by amayos -- 7/12/2006 4:14:23 PM >

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RE: When submission stops being about submission - 7/12/2006 3:52:57 PM   
LadiesBladewing


Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

Just out of interest - if you had a submissive personality who was very much so when you started out, then began showing dominant tendancies, and you were responsible as she/he is under your control, you would really just kick them to the curb?  Or would you discuss their behaviour and maybe help them, assist them in moving forward?  I am not really talking about a submissive person who was trying to top from below, but a person who was genuinely progressing onto another level - even maybe as a switch?
 
Peace and Rapture



Our experience is a little different than what MrDiscipline44 portrayed. Part of the process that we use encourages growth in an individual. Sometimes, the growth comes complete with continued submission, sometimes, it develops into a capacity to lead and direct. If one of our servants of long-standing slipped into a state where hir behavior was more inclined to leadership than yielding, we'd watch for a while, discuss (both among ourselves and with the servant) the tendency xhe had developed to be more directive than yielding, and, provided that xhe was a positive member of the household otherwise, we'd likely determine that xhe was ready for mentorship as an Director or Guide, rather than remaining a servant.

Sometimes, it has been enough to give someone in this situation more responsibility for servants beneath hir -- maybe by making hir a supervisor, or even by promoting hir to Alpha of hir team, Butler or Chatelaine. We believe that, if an individual is a good enough fit for our household to be able to be a servant, the things that made hir a good fit don't stop when xhe grows or changes -- that the talents and connections that make hir a good fit for us can still find an outlet, even if the yielding process has developed into a more directive role.

This being said, the individuals who yield on the surface, but are bossy and judgemental at the core, with those behaviors slipping out amongst their peers first (though they would eventually certainly show themselves among the owners as well) are weeded out before they ever get to this point.


ZWD

< Message edited by LadiesBladewing -- 7/12/2006 3:54:10 PM >

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"Should have", "could have", "would have" and "can't" may be the most dangerous phrases in the English language.
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RE: When submission stops being about submission - 7/12/2006 4:01:52 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MHOO314

.. and starts to become domineering even dominance--
 
Inspired by a current thread about times when a dominant just doesn't feel like or can't carry the weight for a tad...
 
What happens when a submissive begins to demonstrate even enforce domineering tendencies----determining that the Dominant in their opinion may have weaknesses ( I am not talking of a train wreck waiting to happen...) or that the submissive always knows better?  These may even bleed into dominance--pointing out inconsistencies and flaws in the Dominants thinking, decisions, etc.--what happens then?


Ok.... so a person that expresses an opinion that another has weaknesses equates to a person being Dominant or demonstrating Dominating behavior?  So a submissive isn't suppose to express opinions?  So a submissive is not suppose to always know better! Does this equate that only a Dominant is only allowed to always Know better? 

I wonder what is wrong with person expressing in a constructive and appropriate manner their opinion that their is inconsistencies and flaws in a Dominant's thinking, decisions etc?  Unless of course one thinks that Dominants are perfect and that their decisions and thinking is beyond consideration or questioning of the lowly submissive. 

Fortunately, I not so egotisically to consider that my decisions/thinking are going to be prefect.  That I am open to my girls to approach me in constructive and appropriate manners to express opinions that are opposite or just different than mine.  Fortunately, I am not so insecure in my Dominance to feel threatened by my girls opinion being different than mine and don't see this difference as lacking submission.

My boss makes the decision... I make my opinion known that it's the wrong decision.  But the end result is... He is the Boss.  Because I disagree doesn't make me a bad employee.  It would only make me a bad employee if I first shut my mouth and let the consequences of the bad decision occur without my effort to stop it  and/or I put only half effort or undermine the decision.  When the decision is made good or bad... I will express my opinion and then abide by the decision and make every effort to abide by the decision.  The failure of the decision is not going to be because I failed.  It going to fail because of a bad decision.

I equate this no different than with my girls.  I will make the decisions of the relaitonship etc.  The girls will ask to express their opinion or I just might ask them for it.  Be they agree or not agree does not deter their effort and commitment to obey and perfom to the best of their ability in following my decision/choices.   It is their commitment to obey and perform that equates to their submissive qualities and not that their opinion is different.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: When submission stops being about submission - 7/12/2006 4:09:35 PM   
raiken


Posts: 868
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline 		Allow me to ramble...for my spirit is being troubled as of late...
 
i am grateful for this thread, as it is not something that i find discussed very often.
 
Lately, i am discovering  a different side of myself. i have been experiencing inner conflict regarding my submissive tendencies, fantasies and desires.  While i have always been predominantly sub in my relationships, there is something calling from within my psyche that wants and needs to come out.  There has always been a strong dominant side to me in all other areas of my life.  i manage a crew at work, i am head of house, self supportive and independent.
 
Recently, my Master whom i serve part-time due to distance and other circumstances has had another join us in a poly type setting.  Most of my life i have been sub to those i chose to be involved with.  Since i was a teenager, i have always attracted and have gravitated toward dominant men.  i have never been in a relationship where i was not submissive on some level.  The men who were able to dominate me, were always men who were stronger intellectually and emotionally and had given me no other alternative but to finally give in and surrender.  It was as if they conquered me! *grinz
 
When this lifestyle became popular online, it was not a big deal for me, as is the case with certain others who come into their own later in life.  i did not get that "aha" moment that confirmed who i was or what i was missing all these years, and with the bells and whistles associated with a profound discovery. i enjoy hearing of others who get to have that type of moment hit them, it must be awesome. However, i thought, up until now that with regard to my submissive desires and tendencies, i knew who i was; simply a woman who naturally enjoyed pleasing, obeying and serving her man, enjoying his firm hand and leadership, and making him feel like king of the hill! LOL!  i still enjoy that, as it will always be a huge part of how i relate, but yet, i am longing for more now.  i realize that growth and continual learning fosters changes, some i expected and some i would have never anticipated, like the change i find myself going through at present.
 
As i watch Master play with his newly aquired slave, i find myself continually and strongly being drawn to the other side.  i am not sure yet what this will amount to, but i know that i am still "be-coming", and recently the wheel has been set in motion once again. i find myself desiring to lead, guide, advise and discipline, both mentally and physically and find i get off on just the thought of it happening, regardless of gender.
 
With regard to offering my thoughts and opinions, with Master, they have always been welcomed, even when they hit a soft spot, weakness or trigger, mainly because he knows my hearts intentions and values my wisdom and insight.  i always express my thoughts with respect and kindness, and never to belittle, degrade, or embarrass him, but mainly to just make him aware of how i feel and what i observe.  In many ways, he has said that i have been his teacher, just as much as he has been my guide and mentor. 
 
i have not always agreed with his judgements and descisions, but that didn't mean i didn't wish to obey, or respect them.  i obeyed regardless, and then when things went wrong, he was humble enough to admit he screwed up, and the fact that he is secure within himself to admit this, only serves to inspire me to respect him all the more.  He once stated to me that i need to let him learn his own lessons and not interfere, even if i strongly felt he was making a mistake, but to simply obey, as long as my safety, and his or others, were not jeapordized, and i will continue to do so.  He said that Masters need to be able to fall and learn how to recover on their own, and as his slave, best friend and confidant, i will support him. 
 
If i became belligerant or domineering, critical and insensitive, and showed an attitude of disrespect for his person and/or social position in our M/s relationship, using belittling words and body language, i would not blame him for kicking me to the curb and writing me off as an incorrigible! *grinz  For he would in a heart beat...yikes! LOL! However, my integrity won't even subconsciously allow me to go that route, thank goodness! *smile
 
So now armed with this recent news flash, *grin  Master has decided to explore this newly emerging "Mistress" in me, as he aptly put it, *smile (it feels weird when he jokingly says "come here my little mistress!-lol) and has welcomed me to train under him, and has decided to teach me his craft.  While in my heart he will always be Master to me regardless of what titles and names he chooses to bestow upon my person, i will ONLY submit to him.  He said that if another comes along who knows how to bring out and Master the slave in me, he will not stand in the way of that either for he loves me enough.  He once said that he may not be my final Master, and that i may grow away from him one day, and that saddened me, but i see he is wise in saying so. i know if that should ever happen, we both made a pact that we will be lovingly connected in some way forever, for we are in each others systems.
 
Master has told me that if he tries to cage me in spirit, he may eventually loose me, for i may come to resent him for attempting to smother or stunt my personal growth.  He has also stated that it may be fun if we were both dominants, it is a new experience he welcomes as well.  He said if i do well under his tutelage that we can have fun playing together, dominating other subs, but that he will always be above me in rank, and that is fine with me! *grinz
 
i am very grateful that he understands and can real-eyes what it means to me to feel totally free to discover what will be fulfilling and satisfying to my spirit and soul,  in every area of life and desire.  His support means the world to me.  He inspires me to be my best, and it is a rare find to be able to align with another who naturally brings out the best in me, and i in him.  While i know this is long, i guess i just needed to share with you all, for i find myself at a crossroad of sorts, or perhaps a critical juncture, and feel the need to tread softly...and so i very much will welcome any thoughts you all may have regarding what i expressed. 
 
"Kudos" to all who made it to the end, you deserve a medal for your perseverance! *soft smiles
 
~raiken


(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: When submission stops being about submission - 7/12/2006 5:24:26 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: raiken

Allow me to ramble...for my spirit is being troubled as of late...

i am grateful for this thread, as it is not something that i find discussed very often.

Lately, i am discovering a different side of myself. i have been experiencing inner conflict regarding my submissive tendencies, fantasies and desires. While i have always been predominantly sub in my relationships, there is something calling from within my psyche that wants and needs to come out. There has always been a strong dominant side to me in all other areas of my life. i manage a crew at work, i am head of house, self supportive and independent.

Recently, my Master whom i serve part-time due to distance and other circumstances has had another join us in a poly type setting. Most of my life i have been sub to those i chose to be involved with. Since i was a teenager, i have always attracted and have gravitated toward dominant men. i have never been in a relationship where i was not submissive on some level. The men who were able to dominate me, were always men who were stronger intellectually and emotionally and had given me no other alternative but to finally give in and surrender. It was as if they conquered me! *grinz

When this lifestyle became popular online, it was not a big deal for me, as is the case with certain others who come into their own later in life. i did not get that "aha" moment that confirmed who i was or what i was missing all these years, and with the bells and whistles associated with a profound discovery. i enjoy hearing of others who get to have that type of moment hit them, it must be awesome. However, i thought, up until now that with regard to my submissive desires and tendencies, i knew who i was; simply a woman who naturally enjoyed pleasing, obeying and serving her man, enjoying his firm hand and leadership, and making him feel like king of the hill! LOL! i still enjoy that, as it will always be a huge part of how i relate, but yet, i am longing for more now. i realize that growth and continual learning fosters changes, some i expected and some i would have never anticipated, like the change i find myself going through at present.

As i watch Master play with his newly aquired slave, i find myself continually and strongly being drawn to the other side. i am not sure yet what this will amount to, but i know that i am still "be-coming", and recently the wheel has been set in motion once again. i find myself desiring to lead, guide, advise and discipline, both mentally and physically and find i get off on just the thought of it happening, regardless of gender.

With regard to offering my thoughts and opinions, with Master, they have always been welcomed, even when they hit a soft spot, weakness or trigger, mainly because he knows my hearts intentions and values my wisdom and insight. i always express my thoughts with respect and kindness, and never to belittle, degrade, or embarrass him, but mainly to just make him aware of how i feel and what i observe. In many ways, he has said that i have been his teacher, just as much as he has been my guide and mentor.

i have not always agreed with his judgements and descisions, but that didn't mean i didn't wish to obey, or respect them. i obeyed regardless, and then when things went wrong, he was humble enough to admit he screwed up, and the fact that he is secure within himself to admit this, only serves to inspire me to respect him all the more. He once stated to me that i need to let him learn his own lessons and not interfere, even if i strongly felt he was making a mistake, but to simply obey, as long as my safety, and his or others, were not jeapordized, and i will continue to do so. He said that Masters need to be able to fall and learn how to recover on their own, and as his slave, best friend and confidant, i will support him.

If i became belligerant or domineering, critical and insensitive, and showed an attitude of disrespect for his person and/or social position in our M/s relationship, using belittling words and body language, i would not blame him for kicking me to the curb and writing me off as an incorrigible! *grinz For he would in a heart beat...yikes! LOL! However, my integrity won't even subconsciously allow me to go that route, thank goodness! *smile

So now armed with this recent news flash, *grin Master has decided to explore this newly emerging "Mistress" in me, as he aptly put it, *smile (it feels weird when he jokingly says "come here my little mistress!-lol) and has welcomed me to train under him, and has decided to teach me his craft. While in my heart he will always be Master to me regardless of what titles and names he chooses to bestow upon my person, i will ONLY submit to him. He said that if another comes along who knows how to bring out and Master the slave in me, he will not stand in the way of that either for he loves me enough. He once said that he may not be my final Master, and that i may grow away from him one day, and that saddened me, but i see he is wise in saying so. i know if that should ever happen, we both made a pact that we will be lovingly connected in some way forever, for we are in each others systems.

Master has told me that if he tries to cage me in spirit, he may eventually loose me, for i may come to resent him for attempting to smother or stunt my personal growth. He has also stated that it may be fun if we were both dominants, it is a new experience he welcomes as well. He said if i do well under his tutelage that we can have fun playing together, dominating other subs, but that he will always be above me in rank, and that is fine with me! *grinz

i am very grateful that he understands and can real-eyes what it means to me to feel totally free to discover what will be fulfilling and satisfying to my spirit and soul, in every area of life and desire. His support means the world to me. He inspires me to be my best, and it is a rare find to be able to align with another who naturally brings out the best in me, and i in him. While i know this is long, i guess i just needed to share with you all, for i find myself at a crossroad of sorts, or perhaps a critical juncture, and feel the need to tread softly...and so i very much will welcome any thoughts you all may have regarding what i expressed.

"Kudos" to all who made it to the end, you deserve a medal for your perseverance! *soft smiles

~raiken

The road you travel will be difficult as you find certain new feelings conflicting with old feelings. Luckily, you have a dominant (Master) who seems to be of a very understanding nature as regards your feelings/discovery (he sounds a lot like me...~grins~).
You may indeed find another who brings out the submissive feelings in you...or you may not. It has been 6 years since the "gadabout Domme" and I "ended" our relationship as Master/submissive and yet, though she has experienced submissive feelings towards a couple of others, in a recent conversation with her, she stated that her dominance is all that interests her and that she still considers herself submissive to me only. This is the way she prefers it. You may or may not prefer it another way. Perhaps you and your Master will find one that you both choose to dominate, perhaps you will find another that you wish to submit for play to and still submit in the same manner you do now to your Master, etc..

I wish you luck on your endeavor.

(in reply to raiken)
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