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RE: When submission stops being about submission - 7/14/2006 4:14:58 PM

juliaoceania

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fast reply,

Perhaps the dominant in question really is flawed, really has everything wrong, and is even reading their submissive's attitude incorrectly, for the sake of hypotheticals we know nothing about... Just because someone has a perception about the behavior of another does not make them correct. It is hard to tell whether someone's motivation really is to domineer someone else unless you ask them directly what their motivation is (if they even know themselves). Perhaps a dominant interprets a submissive that is matter-of-fact as domineering....Really hard to tell unless you were a fly on the wall, isn't it?

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RE: When submission stops being about submission - 7/14/2006 6:02:47 PM

cloudboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ImpGrrl

quote:

ORIGINAL: MHOO314
What happens when a submissive begins to demonstrate even enforce domineering tendencies----determining that the Dominant in their opinion may have weaknesses ( I am not talking of a train wreck waiting to happen...) or that the submissive always knows better?

Determining that Sir has weaknesses, and compensating for those weaknesses, is not "domineering".

quote:

These may even bleed into dominance--pointing out inconsistencies and flaws in the Dominants thinking, decisions, etc.--what happens then?

Again, this is not "dominance". It's part of my job to help keep him on balance, as well. We're two human beings, helping each other through life. Our dynamic is m/s - with me as the "s". That doesn't change that I still have some things I'm better at, or that he is not always right - and it's my job to be in charge of those things I'm better at, and point out where he might not be right.

Impgrrl, I am with you 100%.

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RE: When submission stops being about submission - 7/14/2006 7:01:57 PM

MHOO314

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but what if--the submissive through arrogance, or lifestyle thinks they know better about everything whether the Dominant is wrong or simply at a different place?

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RE: When submission stops being about submission - 7/14/2006 9:14:44 PM

Smythe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MHOO314

but what if--the submissive through arrogance, or lifestyle thinks they know better about everything whether the Dominant is wrong or simply at a different place?

Dominants have differing levels of tolerance for this sort of thing, as the thread has already demonstrated. I like a spunky smart assed submissive, others have no tolerance for it.

But what seems obvious about the situation you have described, MH, is that it's a mismatch; I wouldn't see any point in pursuing it.

Smythe

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RE: When submission stops being about submission - 7/14/2006 11:31:30 PM

champagnewishes

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ImpGrrl
Again, this is not "dominance". It's part of my job to help keep him on balance, as well. We're two human beings, helping each other through life. Our dynamic is m/s - with me as the "s". That doesn't change that I still have some things I'm better at, or that he is not always right - and it's my job to be in charge of those things I'm better at, and point out where he might not be right.

Very nicely stated... It's funny but i have always viewed my D/s relationships as a circle filled with two colors (blue and pink...lol). A circle for each aspect of our life. If his blue fills the circle 75%, it is my responsibility to fill the remaining 25% with pink. Thus keeping the circle whole. Nothing remains constant, and as such, the exact ratios change...as long as i am able to contribute the remainder to keep the circle full, all is good. Its when you contribute too much that the circle overflows. That's what makes life out of whack.

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RE: When submission stops being about submission - 7/15/2006 7:29:49 AM

CreativeDominant

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
Please, do not make the mistake (as you said to me) of deciding that I am an asshole because I may not be as patient as you think I should be.

I am at a complete loss on where you have gotten the misperception that I have decided you are an asshole or that you need to have a certain level of patience.

Kyra

I do not have the misperception that you have decided I am an asshole or that I lack a certain level of patience.

I was merely using the same qualifier you did in your post: "...do not make the inaccurate assumption that a submissive in another relationship that does these things is being defiant, domineering, or dominant.", only I stated it as "do not make the mistake of deciding".

Clearer now?

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RE: When submission stops being about submission - 7/15/2006 8:13:20 AM

kyraofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Clearer now?

Clear as mud and no longer interested in making it any clearer.

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RE: When submission stops being about submission - 7/15/2006 11:17:30 AM

CreativeDominant

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Clearer now?

Clear as mud and no longer interested in making it any clearer.

Your choice. Doesn't that seem that hard to understand, to me anyway, that I used the same type of qualifier as you did in your statement in your "fast post".

I share your lack of interest in trying to make it any clearer for you.

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RE: When submission stops being about submission - 7/15/2006 1:05:49 PM

crouchingtigress

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personally i think you are up shits creek. i think that he is fixated on One-True-Way to do D/s , which we all know is hooey, so then the question begs, why would he do that?

He is creating walls, he is distancing himself, for what ever reason he is divesting and not investing in this relationship.

the reasons could be many, from lack of trust, to low self worth, to being dropped on his head as a baby....it really does not matter.

what matters is he is saying i dont want to play with you unless you play my way, and if you dont i am taking my toys (energy) and going home.

this is not a person that has the skills, D/s or no D/s, one needs for a relationship to work out.

issue resolution
compromise
communication
open mindedness
listening
investment
transparency
negotiating

i dont know what skills he does posses but if i were you i would make a list and line them next to that there list, and see what your needs are.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MHOO314

but what if--the submissive through arrogance, or lifestyle thinks they know better about everything whether the Dominant is wrong or simply at a different place?

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RE: When submission stops being about submission - 7/15/2006 2:43:33 PM

cloudboy

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This may sound trite, but oftentimes how one says something is more important than what is said. When I have issues with either my wife or Mistress, I usually try to think of some way to present them constructively.

So, not sure I understand your underlying question, but yes a sub or any person can "cross a line" if they are rude or if their issues are unreasonable.

I try to never be rude, but sometimes I can "come on strong" when I feel strongly about something.

I must also say that when I feel my reasonable and well presented challenges are not met with proper respect and consideration --- it can be the beginning of the end. Luckily both my wife and Mistress are quite skilled at relationhips --- so although I may go into a problem upset --- underneath I'm always optimistic about getting is solved.

Not sure how that addresses your question.

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RE: When submission stops being about submission - 7/15/2006 2:47:37 PM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

This may sound trite, but oftentimes how one says something is more important than what is said. When I have issues with either my wife or Mistress, I usually try to think of some way to present them constructively.

Something I once said to my former boss, which has since become a catch-phrase at work: "It's all in the delivery." (He needed reminding of that from time to time)

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RE: When submission stops being about submission - 7/15/2006 8:53:42 PM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
This may sound trite, but oftentimes how one says something is more important than what is said. When I have issues with either my wife or Mistress, I usually try to think of some way to present them constructively.

Well said!!! I would add that the motivation of "why" they wish to say it has a significant impact on how they say it.

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