quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44

What typically happens is their feet barely touch the floor as they are booted to the curb. In my eyes, when one is no longer submissive and conducts themself in such a manner then there isn't a relationship anymore.They are no longer of value then. And why would I keep something that has no value.

quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

When the slightest ghost of question or defiance occurs in one's servant, such a slip of decorum is to be called by name and corrected immediately. Not doing so will only compound and enable further disobedience and the erosion of authority. As with a pet or child, it behooves one to keep patterns of negative behavior from recurring unchecked. Just as we do not blame the owned dog for its ill-temperment, so too must we look within ourselves to understand if we unwittingly fostered disobedience in our servants through our own actions—or lack thereof.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

When the slightest ghost of question or defiance occurs in one's servant, such a slip of decorum is to be called by name and corrected immediately. Not doing so will only compound and enable further disobedience and the erosion of authority. As with a pet or child, it behooves one to keep patterns of negative behavior from recurring unchecked. Just as we do not blame the owned dog for its ill-temperment, so too must we look within ourselves to understand if we unwittingly fostered disobedience in our servants through our own actions—or lack thereof.

I think you and some of the other Doms here are missing the point. The question seems more like, what does a DOM do when the sub or slave correctly points out that the DOM is wrong, or is hypocritical, or is otherwise in error?

In such a situation a challenging sub or slave is doing you a favor. DOMs in favor of bouncing such subs to the curb are too imbued with their own BDSM megalomania.

A Dom is never superior by title alone and is not dominant by claim or role either. Nope, Doms have to earn their station and prove themselves in the real, objective world --- and if they don't, their subs and slaves don't owe'em shit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MHOO314
What happens when a submissive begins to demonstrate even enforce domineering tendencies----determining that the Dominant in their opinion may have weaknesses ( I am not talking of a train wreck waiting to happen...) or that the submissive always knows better?  These may even bleed into dominance--pointing out inconsistencies and flaws in the Dominants thinking, decisions, etc.--what happens then?

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: MHOO314
What happens when a submissive begins to demonstrate even enforce domineering tendencies----determining that the Dominant in their opinion may have weaknesses ( I am not talking of a train wreck waiting to happen...) or that the submissive always knows better?  These may even bleed into dominance--pointing out inconsistencies and flaws in the Dominants thinking, decisions, etc.--what happens then?

I don't think the OP was talking about a little flaw or error here and there.  "...always knows better?"  goes beyond a mere, "Master, there may have been something overlooked when making this last decision; can we talk about it?"

I was involved in an online relationship for several years, way back when (yeah yeah, I know - it couldn't have meant anything, it was fantasy, it wasn't really submission, etc., I am using it to make a point to the OP).  I loved that man.  We spoke for hours every single day, and over time I could see he was really not that strong or motivated a person.  When looking to him for direction, I would become frustrated because he didn't always provide it, or when he did, sometimes it just wasn't realistic.  When he would share his trials and tribulations with me, I began to see a pattern...of unmotivation, of insecurity, of dishonesty - dishonesty with himself as well as with me.  As a result, I began losing respect for him as a Dominant.  How could this man possibly guide me when he kept running into the trappings in his mind in his own life?  Over the course of our conversations, I stopped coming to him for guidance and instead began advising him in his life.  Simple suggestions too, that were obvious to me.  Still he remained lethargic and unmotivated, and grew ever frustrated with me.  As it ended up, we were mutually frustrated with each other, and the roles in our connection ceased to be dominant/submissive.

Was that me being bitchy?  And needing to be tossed to the curb?  Perhaps, but mostly it was a gradual evolution (or in this case, devolving) of the dynamic we started out with.  Yes, it should have ended long before it got to a point of being so frustrated that tempers often rose, but sometimes people hang onto something out of love for each other, even when it is no longer working.  It is my opinion, that I stopped seeing him as a strong dominant, and in my need for him to be a strong dominant, I was topping from the bottom (or at least trying to) all over the place, really wanting him to be something he wasn't.  And because he wasn't strong, he let me, until neither of us could take it anymore.

In my current situation, if I believe Master is incorrect about something, I am allowed to say so, albeit respectfully.  "Master, I think there is a bigger picture here thay might not be seen from your vantage point."  or, "Master I know your word is final, but before you confirm your decision about this, I would like to express a concern, if I may."  If I ever were to attempt at topping, it would be squelched immediately.  I agree with what Amayos said in his post, as that is Master's way as well.  Always knowing better and pointing out flaws in a healthy M/s or D/s dynamic is defiance.  And once defiance is allowed inside, the relationship is in trouble if not corrected immediately.

quote:

ORIGINAL: enigmabrat

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44

What typically happens is their feet barely touch the floor as they are booted to the curb. In my eyes, when one is no longer submissive and conducts themself in such a manner then there isn't a relationship anymore.They are no longer of value then. And why would I keep something that has no value.

Im sorry to disagree but in my eyes people always have value weather they feel submissive or not

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

When the slightest ghost of question or defiance occurs in one's servant, such a slip of decorum is to be called by name and corrected immediately. Not doing so will only compound and enable further disobedience and the erosion of authority. As with a pet or child, it behooves one to keep patterns of negative behavior from recurring unchecked. Just as we do not blame the owned dog for its ill-temperment, so too must we look within ourselves to understand if we unwittingly fostered disobedience in our servants through our own actions—or lack thereof.

I think you and some of the other Doms here are missing the point. The question seems more like, what does a DOM do when the sub or slave correctly points out that the DOM is wrong, or is hypocritical, or is otherwise in error?

In such a situation a challenging sub or slave is doing you a favor. DOMs in favor of bouncing such subs to the curb are too imbued with their own BDSM megalomania.

A Dom is never superior by title alone and is not dominant by claim or role either. Nope, Doms have to earn their station and prove themselves in the real, objective world --- and if they don't, their subs and slaves don't owe'em shit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MHOO314

.. and starts to become domineering even dominance--
 
Inspired by a current thread about times when a dominant just doesn't feel like or can't carry the weight for a tad...
 
What happens when a submissive begins to demonstrate even enforce domineering tendencies----determining that the Dominant in their opinion may have weaknesses ( I am not talking of a train wreck waiting to happen...) or that the submissive always knows better?  These may even bleed into dominance--pointing out inconsistencies and flaws in the Dominants thinking, decisions, etc.--what happens then?

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

What do I do?

The immediate reaction is that I might get angry but then I'd get angry with Tom or anyone else too at a gut-level reaction. Who likes to be wrong?

I can usually recognize my feelings though and step back from them a bit -- had to be learned, wasn't an innate ability mind you.

Then I evaluate the comment. Is it correct? What did I miss in my evaluation? Is it an error in judgement, information, or perception on my part?

If it is a challenge to my opinion or logic or history, then we are in for a heated discussion!

But I don't have a problem saying "I didn't know that" or "you should have told me sooner" or sometimes just saying "Oh, ok, thanks". I also have no problem saying "tell me more" or "what's your evidence".

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

fast reply
 
 
There seems to be two different opinions about this post, one that focuses on the concept of a submissive being domineering or behaving as if they are the dominant in the relationship and then the other that focuses on the opinions and behaviors listed and not on the assumption of the OP that these opinions and behaviors reflect a domineering attitude.

It is one thing to ask what happens when a submissive begins to have domineering behaviors and it is another thing to ask what happens when a submissive has or expresses the following opinions.  These two questions are not the same and to link dominance or domineering behavior with the thoughts and opinions listed is not accurate.

The original post links domineering tendencies to having two opinions, that the dominant has weaknesses and that the submissive always knows better.  In my opinion this is flawed logic since domineering describes behavior and having an opinion is not a behavior.  I would even go so far as to say that domineering describes the motivation behind a certain behavior, since two people can behave in the same way and their motivation in the action will determine whether it is a submissive or domineering act.  If I tell my Lord that I think he has a weakness, that in and of it self is not domineering.  If my motivation is to tear him down and subvert the authority in the relationship, then that is domineering.  If my motivation is the help him improve himself and enhance the authority in the relationship, then it is a submissive act.  However, the OP does not mention or even consider the motivations of the submissive, so how can anyone make an informed determination that the submissive is being domineering?

I also see the statement of “submissive always knows better” as a gross overgeneralization either by the dominant or the submissive and I don’t believe that any educated opinion can be formed on the basis of this thought.  Does the submissive think they always know better and know better about what?  Is it everything or just some things? Does the dominant just think that the submissive has this opinion?  There are way too many questions regarding this statement to form an opinion that the submissive is being domineering.  Maybe, this is only the dominant’s misperception and so they need to correct their perception of the events.  Frankly, there will be things that a submissive knows better than a dominant.  There are things that my Lord has given alandra and I control over, because we know best on how to make those things happen.  He capitalizes on our strengths to make his life easier.

The original post then goes on to link dominance to “pointing out inconsistencies and flaws” in another’s thoughts and decisions.  Is this sentence to suggest that dominants are always consistent and are without flaw, so how dare a submissive have this opinion?  Dominants are people first and people have flaws and are sometimes inconsistent.  I would be doing my Lord a disservice if I did not point these things out and help him improve himself.  Again, it is all about the motivation of doing/saying these things.  My motivation is not to take away his authority but to enhance it.

quote:

I know that some people’s style of dominance is that a submissive is not allowed to point out any flaw, error, mistake, etc. of the dominants and if that works for them, then great.  However, do not make the inaccurate assumption that a submissive in another relationship that does these things is being defiant, domineering or dominant.

quote:

I know that I could not be in a relationship with someone who was not able to accept constructive criticism from me.  I am direct and blunt and will call a spade a spade, but my entire motivation is to enhance the relationship and not tear it down.  My Lord is human and therefore flawed; what kind of service would I be giving him if I did not help him improve himself?  What kind of service would I be providing him if I blew smoke up his ass and told him how wonderful he was when he was really being an asshole?

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant   
Please, do not make the mistake (as you said to me) of deciding that I am an asshole because I may not be as patient as you think I should be. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: MHOO314
What happens when a submissive begins to demonstrate even enforce domineering tendencies----determining that the Dominant in their opinion may have weaknesses ( I am not talking of a train wreck waiting to happen...) or that the submissive always knows better?

quote:

These may even bleed into dominance--pointing out inconsistencies and flaws in the Dominants thinking, decisions, etc.--what happens then?