RE: Canadian gun control...

RE: Canadian gun control... (Full Version)

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BamaD -> RE: Canadian gun control... (10/22/2014 8:30:41 PM)
And this piece of trivia is important... why?? It isn't trivia it shows how well gun control works here. And it makes a lie of how much better off people are to be stabbed rather than shot. The increase in murders was in stabbings, clubbing and the like, things you pretend aren't all that dangerous.

lovmuffin -> RE: Canadian gun control... (10/22/2014 9:54:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: littleladybug quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Same in Alabama with the added factor that if someone like Fd panics you can be charged with disturbing the peace, and that is just for open carry, not "brandishing' From what I have heard, the same is true in Florida...including possible jail time. I don't know about FL In FL most of us carry in the open. When I go to the grocery store my wife covers me with her assault rifle while I scramble into an armored van with my AR15 blazing away. My freakin neighbor keeps taking pot shots at me from behind his bunker cause he says my dog barks too loud. One of these days I'm gun'a kill that inbred motherfucker. My fishin buddy has a Browning 50 caliber machine gun mounted to his souped up dune buggy. One of us fishes while the other keeps watch for crazy gun nuts with ultra high power assault weapons comin over the sand dunes. Even walking down Main Street is crazy. Ya got'a keep yer hand on the grip of yer weapon cause some crazy ass could come out of a boutique sprayin away with their super automatic semi auto assault weapon with cop killer bullets and ya got'a be able to gun 'em down real quick. On the bright side, down here in Florida the sunshine and warm weather are great.

BamaD -> RE: Canadian gun control... (10/22/2014 9:58:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: littleladybug quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Same in Alabama with the added factor that if someone like Fd panics you can be charged with disturbing the peace, and that is just for open carry, not "brandishing' From what I have heard, the same is true in Florida...including possible jail time. I don't know about FL In FL most of us carry in the open. When I go to the grocery store my wife covers me with her assault rifle while I scramble into an armored van with my AR15 blazing away. My freakin neighbor keeps taking pot shots at me from behind his bunker cause he says my dog barks too loud. One of these days I'm gun'a kill that inbred motherfucker. My fishin buddy has a Browning 50 caliber machine gun mounted to his souped up dune buggy. One of us fishes while the other keeps watch for crazy gun nuts with ultra high power assault weapons comin over the sand dunes. Even walking down Main Street is crazy. Ya got'a keep yer hand on the grip of yer weapon cause some crazy ass could come out of a boutique sprayin away with their super automatic semi auto assault weapon with cop killer bullets and ya got'a be able to gun 'em down real quick. On the bright side, down here in Florida the sunshine and warm weather are great. Careful FD will think someone finally told the truth about America.

Politesub53 -> RE: Canadian gun control... (10/23/2014 2:56:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD The FBI also says that guns are used to stop violent crime 650,000 times a year. yeah give me the site on that, cos im calling BULLSHIT If he is right it fucks up his claim that the UK is more violent than the US.

Lucylastic -> RE: Canadian gun control... (10/23/2014 5:17:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery It's from an advertisement. "According to noted criminologist Dr. Gary Kleck of Florida State University, every year some 650,000 Americans use firearms to thwart criminal assault." Even Paul Blackman, research coordinator for the N.R.A., concedes that the advertisement "stretches the data." He adds, "I don't know of any criminological study that has tried to quantify the number of lives saved based on the number of guns that were successfully used for protection." Kleck says his study did not consider the question of lives saved. Nor did he conclude, as the N.R.A. claims, that a crime or an assault had been "thwarted" in each of his estimated 645,000 (the ad upped it to 650,000) annual instances of a protective use of a gun. Kleck notes that his study may have included incidents in which a homeowner merely heard noisy youths outside his house, then shouted, "Hey, I've got a gun!" and never saw any possible attacker. His numbers are based on a 1981 poll conducted by Peter D. Hart Research Associates. It asked 1,228 U.S. voters whether in the previous five years any member of their household had "used a handgun, even if it was not fired, for self-protection or for the protection of property." In short -- the numbers and the claim in the ad are flatly made up. http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,152446,00.html A relatively balanced view of the gun question comes, surprisingly, from Kleck. "The vast majority of the population lives in low-crime neighborhoods and has virtually no need for a gun for defensive reasons," he says. Klecks been debunked more often than Sanity and Bama put together But thank you for the handy dandy link MM

thishereboi -> RE: Canadian gun control... (10/23/2014 6:28:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: KYsissy Your link in no way refutes my claim. And just as many suicides happened by other means. We aren't talking about 'other means' - we are talking about guns. Pure and simple. quote: ORIGINAL: KYsissy And if it is that simple, we should instead use all the foreign aid we hand out and let England pick up the slack there. Two problems solved. Guns deaths anywhere in the US aren't our problem. Gun and drug cartels peddling in the US and across US borders aren't our problem either. Neither is gun control on the Canadian border. So why should we pick up the tab for your problems?? We have a solution. So does Australia. It works. Yours doesn't. Simples! [:D] For once I agree with you. They are not your problem. Yet so many folks over there still feel the need to spend hours and hours arguing over what our gun laws should say. Some of them even throw out totally bullshit "facts" about life over here even though they have proven time and time again that they really have no clue. Why do you suppose that is?

DesideriScuri -> RE: Canadian gun control... (10/23/2014 7:55:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littleladybug quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Ohio is one "Open Carry" State where you don't need a permit specifically to be allowed to openly carry. You do need a specific permit to legally "Concealed Carry," though. You won't find too many people open carrying because it's not a strategically smart thing to do. Very interesting.... Personally, I've always been around people who have had concealed carry permits, which, now that you mention it, would be the WAY smarter thing to do, when given the choice. Have a friend who is a LEO in Cleveland. My paraphrase of his wisdom.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Canadian gun control... (10/23/2014 7:58:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 Ok. Bad choice of words. But looking at Desi's map, there are an awful lot of places (30+ states) where you can openly carry guns without a permit and only 7 where it is prohibited. *Only 7* out of how many states??** That's a shitload of places where you can!! That isn't allowed at all in most countries where there are much stricter guns laws. Either of 57 or 50, depending on who you ask. [8D]

DesideriScuri -> RE: Canadian gun control... (10/23/2014 8:18:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD And how many have bought guns illegally in the US? They are illegal, that means in violation of the law, and thus have no bearing on gun laws. So you don't count them??? So deaths caused by shootings of illegal guns don't count?? The point is, it is very easy to buy illegal guns or even legal guns illegally in the US where you can't do that so easily anywhere else. No, the point is that those that are buying guns illegally aren't likely to follow yet another gun law anyway. Laws are only followed by the law-abiding. So, gun laws restricting ownership are only going to take guns out of the hands of the law-abiding. That's the point of it. Are there people who illegally own guns in the UK? If so, how can that happen, with the laws y'all have?

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Canadian gun control... (10/23/2014 8:37:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: KYsissy Your link in no way refutes my claim. And just as many suicides happened by other means. We aren't talking about 'other means' - we are talking about guns. Pure and simple. quote: ORIGINAL: KYsissy And if it is that simple, we should instead use all the foreign aid we hand out and let England pick up the slack there. Two problems solved. Guns deaths anywhere in the US aren't our problem. Gun and drug cartels peddling in the US and across US borders aren't our problem either. Neither is gun control on the Canadian border. So why should we pick up the tab for your problems?? We have a solution. So does Australia. It works. Yours doesn't. Simples! [:D] For once I agree with you. They are not your problem. Yet so many folks over there still feel the need to spend hours and hours arguing over what our gun laws should say. Some of them even throw out totally bullshit "facts" about life over here even though they have proven time and time again that they really have no clue. Why do you suppose that is? Maybe they argue because they would like to see the US as a safer place without guns? When I say without guns, I don't mean having all guns eradicated like many gun nuts seem to think I mean. I lived over there for 8 months, in various locations - and not as a tourist. I was there staying with a number of different friends assessing whether I wanted to emigrate to the US with my family. So I seriously looked at the people around me, their friends, their lifestyle and society in general and the sort of situation I might find myself living in. I looked at housing (construction, locations, situations, costs etc) as well as the cost of healthcare. I also checked out food sources both in availability, options, content, variety etc as well as job opportunities, travel options, schools... the whole kit and kaboodle for living there. Most of what I discovered was good but a few key things were sounding some very loud klaxon's. So at least when I put my points across, I am at least coming with a small degree of personal experience of actually living in the US rather than just website searches.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Canadian gun control... (10/23/2014 8:40:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD gun deaths in Australia may have dropped but the murder rate is virtually unchanged, and you know it. The topic is for guns - not other sources. Another strawman diversionary tactic. Actually, you're using a diversionary tactic. What does it matter if the number of gun crimes drops if the number of crimes overall doesn't? Are crimes using knives somehow "better" than crimes using guns? If you get robbed at gunpoint or at knifepoint, have you not still been robbed? Reducing crime by one method shouldn't really be the aim, should it? Shouldn't reducing crime, regardless of method, be the aim?

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Canadian gun control... (10/23/2014 9:01:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD And how many have bought guns illegally in the US? They are illegal, that means in violation of the law, and thus have no bearing on gun laws. So you don't count them??? So deaths caused by shootings of illegal guns don't count?? The point is, it is very easy to buy illegal guns or even legal guns illegally in the US where you can't do that so easily anywhere else. No, the point is that those that are buying guns illegally aren't likely to follow yet another gun law anyway. Laws are only followed by the law-abiding. So, gun laws restricting ownership are only going to take guns out of the hands of the law-abiding. That's the point of it. Are there people who illegally own guns in the UK? If so, how can that happen, with the laws y'all have? No doubt that there are some illegal guns here. Where there's a will there's a way. But, as has been said before many times, it is not impossible to obtain a gun illegally but doing that here where guns are generally not owned by the populace and we generally don't have gun fairs and many gun stores, it is much much harder. Laws restricting ownership do actually work because they are much more stringently enforced. And because we don't allow guns in any public place, anyone caught with a firearm (and other weapons) have them confiscated and destroyed with the owner being prosecuted harshly. Yes, we have street gangs, drug dealers and runners, and many people caught doing illegal activities. When our police investigate such things, every aspect of the crime and criminal are checked, and that includes drugs and weapons even for a plain burglar or assault event. We also have special police units who's only job is to watch the movements of known criminals or gang members and suspect individuals they see on the streets for drugs and weapons. Even if you get stopped in your car or are involved in an auto accident, the people and the car are searched for drugs, alcohol and weapons. When the police raid known gang areas, even on drug raids, they do take a fair number of weapons and jail a lot of people; the weapons are also destroyed. So in that sense, there are many criminals as well as ordinary citizens that are affected. The posit that only law-abiding people are affected by such constraints is bunkum and untrue when done properly. It's not a perfect solution but we certainly seem to manage to keep guns away from many criminals.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Canadian gun control... (10/23/2014 9:10:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD gun deaths in Australia may have dropped but the murder rate is virtually unchanged, and you know it. The topic is for guns - not other sources. Another strawman diversionary tactic. Actually, you're using a diversionary tactic. What does it matter if the number of gun crimes drops if the number of crimes overall doesn't? Are crimes using knives somehow "better" than crimes using guns? If you get robbed at gunpoint or at knifepoint, have you not still been robbed? Reducing crime by one method shouldn't really be the aim, should it? Shouldn't reducing crime, regardless of method, be the aim? Reducing crime is good - whatever the crime is. Yes, you'll still have been robbed. Many are able to tackle someone with a knife. Not so with a gun to your head - that would mean almost certain death. Reducing gun crimes is better because gun crimes result in a lot of deaths where other methods you usually manage to survive.

thompsonx -> RE: Canadian gun control... (10/23/2014 9:15:20 AM)
ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Laws are only followed by the law-abiding. So, gun laws restricting ownership are only going to take guns out of the hands of the law-abiding. That's the point of it. Do you just open your mouth to change feet? If the law says that felons may not posses a gun how does that restrict the rights of the law-abiding?[8\|]

Greta75 -> RE: Canadian gun control... (10/23/2014 12:04:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littleladybug Why not look at the real issue...which are the PEOPLE that shot the guns, not the guns themselves? Haha, coming from a Nanny state myself, our reasoning would be, since you cannot trust people not to misuse guns, then we should ban all guns from their use. We ban chewing gum after all, since we can't trust people not to litter gum everywhere. But I personally feel US need their guns, I have a feeling it will be difficult to keep guns out of bad people hands IF they ban guns. The good guys will be gun free and the bad guys are still gonna somehow be getting hold of guns.

thompsonx -> RE: Canadian gun control... (10/23/2014 1:32:16 PM)
ORIGINAL: Greta75 Haha, coming from a Nanny state myself, If you are unhappy there why do you live there? our reasoning would be, since you cannot trust people not to misuse guns, then we should ban all guns from their use. I thought singapore was a dictatorship of capitalist not a democracy? Consequently why would they allow their residents to posses guns? We ban chewing gum after all, since we can't trust people not to litter gum everywhere. The gum chewing punks shut down the trains with their gum. Did you forget about the reasons for the ban. But I personally feel US need their guns, Why? How much time have you spent in the u.s.? What is the bassis for your opinion? I have a feeling it will be difficult to keep guns out of bad people hands IF they ban guns. How many "bad" people wander around singapore committing crimes with guns? The good guys will be gun free and the bad guys are still gonna somehow be getting hold of guns. Since the overwhelming majority of u.s. citizens/residents do not carry how does this affect anyone?

Greta75 -> RE: Canadian gun control... (10/23/2014 1:49:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx If you are unhappy there why do you live there? I call my country a Nanny State with love and affection. That's why I live here. I think it's a great thing. quote: I thought singapore was a dictatorship of capitalist not a democracy? Consequently why would they allow their residents to posses guns? If you were to put into vote if people want guns, 99% would vote no. We are a democracy, we have the same political system as the UK. Our ruling party is voted by majority into power. quote: The gum chewing punks shut down the trains with their gum. Did you forget about the reasons for the ban. Chewing gum would not shut down trains IF people didn't litter. So it's because you can't trust people not to litter their gum. quote: Why? How much time have you spent in the u.s.? What is the bassis for your opinion? Your drug control is horrible, so if you can't regulate drugs from the black market, you won't be able keep guns out, you can't even keep illegal mexicans out of your borders. People can easily smuggle guns in from Mexico. quote: How many "bad" people wander around singapore committing crimes with guns? Our borders are more secure than yours. quote: Since the overwhelming majority of u.s. citizens/residents do not carry how does this affect anyone? Yes, but the bad guys wouldn't know who has guns and who has not, and it's a deterrent.

thishereboi -> RE: Canadian gun control... (10/23/2014 2:53:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Laws are only followed by the law-abiding. So, gun laws restricting ownership are only going to take guns out of the hands of the law-abiding. That's the point of it. Do you just open your mouth to change feet? If the law says that felons may not posses a gun how does that restrict the rights of the law-abiding?[8\|] Where did anyone suggest we should change the laws regarding felons and guns?

thompsonx -> RE: Canadian gun control... (10/23/2014 3:39:20 PM)
ORIGINAL: Greta75 ORIGINAL: thompsonx If you are unhappy there why do you live there?[/quote] I call my country a Nanny State with love and affection. That's why I live here. I think it's a great thing. My bad, I got the impression that you were unhappy with your nanny state. I thought singapore was a dictatorship of capitalist not a democracy? Consequently why would they allow their residents to posses guns? If you were to put into vote if people want guns, 99% would vote no. We are a democracy, we have the same political system as the UK. Our ruling party is voted by majority into power. Are you sure you live in singapore? Singapore is not a democracy it is a republic. The u.k. is a constitutional monarchy not a republic. The ruling party in singapore has been in power since singapore became independent how can that be? There seems to be plenty of evidence that the ruling party has kept power by less than ethical means. How can you live there and not know the form of government,why chewing gum was banned, why the ban was partially lifted under pressure from the wrigley chewing gum punks via bush senior? Not in great britian nor in singapore does democracy exist...not then,not now, and possibly not ever. The gum chewing punks shut down the trains with their gum. Did you forget about the reasons for the ban. Chewing gum would not shut down trains IF people didn't litter. So it's because you can't trust people not to litter their gum. The reason the law was put into force was that young punks would use chewing gum to obscure the sensing mechanism that opened and closed the doors on the new metro trains. The other issues of littering had existed for years without any ban on chewing gum. But when the new metro system was shut down by the vandals with chewing gum the govt took action. It was a "money" decission. Why? How much time have you spent in the u.s.? What is the bassis for your opinion? Your drug control is horrible, How can you say such a thing. The dope kingpins are still in control making a ton of money and congess makes sure that their profits will not falter. so if you can't regulate drugs from the black market, you won't be able keep guns out, you can't even keep illegal mexicans out of your borders. People can easily smuggle guns in from Mexico. Because gun smugling goes south not north. The u.s. is a manufacturer of guns. Mexico is a consumer of guns. How many "bad" people wander around singapore committing crimes with guns? Our borders are more secure than yours. Singapore is an island the last time I checked and about half the size of los angeles. Since the overwhelming majority of u.s. citizens/residents do not carry how does this affect anyone? Yes, but the bad guys wouldn't know who has guns and who has not, and it's a deterrent. Logically the "bad guys" would rely on the simple math that something like 99% do not c/c.

thompsonx -> RE: Canadian gun control... (10/23/2014 3:43:57 PM)
ORIGINAL: thishereboi ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Laws are only followed by the law-abiding. So, gun laws restricting ownership are only going to take guns out of the hands of the law-abiding.]/b] That's the point of it. Do you just open your mouth to change feet? If the law says that felons may not posses a gun how does that restrict the rights of the law-abiding?[8\|] Where did anyone suggest we should change the laws regarding felons and guns? Perhaps if before stuffing both feet into your mouth you were to read the moronic post I responded to, you would not appear so phoquing stupid. For your edification I have bolded the relevant part of his post.

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