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RE: Withholding care - 10/25/2014 6:04:17 PM

Sanity

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

I know a critical care nurse who says she and the majority of her coworkers will quit rather than care for ebola patients

And that only one fool in the entire hospital has signed up to be certified to care for ebola patients

So no, hospitals shouldnt be forced to self destruct. Thats insane.

The actual post, prior to your trollish little edit

There was no trollish edit, you clearly claimed one nurse was foolish enough to sign up. You also posted three seperate lines, meaning it was three seperate thoughts. Keep digging if you want, but you are already neck deep.

Don't they teach the meaning of the word "and" in troll school

< Message edited by Sanity -- 10/25/2014 6:05:36 PM >

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RE: Withholding care - 10/25/2014 6:05:19 PM

Lynnxz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

"polite" sub

What a joke

SO lost

quote:

An extraordinary number of Bellevue Hospital staffers called in sick on Friday rather than treat the city’s first Ebola patient — and those who showed up were terrified to enter his isolation chamber, sources told The Post.

“The nurses on the floor are miserable with a ‘why me?’ attitude, scared to death and overworked because all their co-workers called out sick,” one source said.

“One nurse even went as far as to pretend she was having a stroke to get out of working there, but once they cleared her in the ER they sent her back up,” the source added.

Well that's kind of shitty....

Then again, I *did* have a nurse call out to me one day... Said she was in a coma that morning, but was now better and would be in on Monday.

I wonder what kind of training they have afforded their staff. There have been no such stories out of Atlanta, who seem to have treatment down to the exact science. I'm sure close proximity to the CDC doesn't hurt either.

They say they are understaffed.... What the shit... Are you telling me the Ebola doctor isn't that nurse's ONLY patient?! Jesus!

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RE: Withholding care - 10/26/2014 7:03:30 AM

MercTech

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Very very few medical facilities have Class 5 bio-hazard areas except for possibly one small incubator in their microbiology lab.

It isn't rocket science on the dress/undress procedures though. Any reasonably sharp person can be instructed of the protocols and about half an hour. Although it is considered a 40 hour course for the untrained; if you have worked in Class B industrial hazard gear it is a no brainer. The only difference in Grade B industrial hazard gear and Class 5 biohazard gear is the decontamination protocol. Industrial hazmat uses neutralizing chemical wash down before undress and Class 5 biohazard basically sprays you down with bleach twice before undress. The reality in no way resembles what movies and television shows promulgate.

Ebola is transmitted by bodily fluid transfer not airborne. So you won't see Class 5 biohazard gear like you would for say.. pneumonic plague or anthrax. Double gloves, faceshield, and decontamination station at patient care access point would be more like it. Put a bubble lock at a hospital room door and you would meet specs even. About 90 minutes to put in if you have practice at it.

For less hype, more information, try the USCDC instead of news media.
http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/prevention/index.html

Note... the outfit shown in the picture there is Class 4 biohazard garb (no protection from airborne virus but face mask to prevent fluids from contacting the face).
Advertising flyer for biohazard gear.
http://www.dupont.com/content/dam/assets/products-and-services/personal-protective-equipment/assets/DPP14_20240_Ebola_Tech_Bulletin_%2091114b.pdf

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RE: Withholding care - 10/26/2014 8:05:32 AM

Sanity

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From your CDC link

quote:

Practice careful hygiene. For example, wash your hands with soap and water or an alcohol-based hand sanitizer and avoid contact with blood and body fluids.

Do not handle items that may have come in contact with an infected person’s blood or body fluids (such as clothes, bedding, needles, and medical equipment).

Avoid funeral or burial rituals that require handling the body of someone who has died from Ebola.

Avoid contact with bats and nonhuman primates or blood, fluids, and raw meat prepared from these animals.

Avoid hospitals in West Africa where Ebola patients are being treated. The U.S. embassy or consulate is often able to provide advice on facilities.

After you return, monitor your health for 21 days and seek medical care immediately if you develop symptoms of Ebola.

A few thoughts on that: Why just avoid hospitals in West Africa where Ebola patients are being treated. Why wouldn't reasonable people naturally want to avoid all hospitals where ebola is being treated, and avoid tainted bedding, needles, and waste etc?

And then if one does go near such things, wonder for 21 days if they might be infecting the people around them with ebola

Most hospital nurses aren't exactly crack military commando types (this being an understatement), hospital rooms are small, those suits are very clumsy, and there are no decontamination facilities. So you have to trust your buddy to keep you alive, and not all buddies are all that sharp

Then, again, you have to wait and worry for 21 days even with the brightest of buddies if a mistake was made treating tthe patient or undressing or anywhere else

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RE: Withholding care - 10/26/2014 5:19:54 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

A few thoughts on that: Why just avoid hospitals in West Africa where Ebola patients are being treated. Why wouldn't reasonable people naturally want to avoid all hospitals where ebola is being treated, and avoid tainted bedding, needles, and waste etc?

Because the majority of cases are in West Africa and hospital conditions there are spartan.

quote:

And then if one does go near such things, wonder for 21 days if they might be infecting the people around them with ebola

This doesnt make sense whichever way one reads it.

quote:

Most hospital nurses aren't exactly crack military commando types (this being an understatement), hospital rooms are small, those suits are very clumsy, and there are no decontamination facilities. So you have to trust your buddy to keep you alive, and not all buddies are all that sharp

Most nurses are sharper than you, whats your point ?

quote:

Then, again, you have to wait and worry for 21 days even with the brightest of buddies if a mistake was made treating tthe patient or undressing or anywhere else

Its called risk and thankfully many medical staff are prepared to take it.

< Message edited by Politesub53 -- 10/26/2014 5:21:06 PM >

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RE: Withholding care - 10/26/2014 5:42:54 PM

Sanity

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Its called risk and thankfully many medical staff are prepared to take it.

Theyre not, actually. Most others would have to try to remain so totally ignorant of the facts in spite of the many news articles I have provided links to in this thread proving the exact opposite

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RE: Withholding care - 10/26/2014 5:49:49 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Its called risk and thankfully many medical staff are prepared to take it.

Theyre not, actually. Most others would have to try to remain so totally ignorant of the facts in spite of the many news articles I have provided links to in this thread proving the exact opposite

As ever, you have provided fuck all. If many medical staff were not prepared to take the risk, why have so many gone to West Africa ?

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RE: Withholding care - 10/26/2014 6:07:33 PM

Sanity

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Its called risk and thankfully many medical staff are prepared to take it.

Theyre not, actually. Most others would have to try to remain so totally ignorant of the facts in spite of the many news articles I have provided links to in this thread proving the exact opposite

As ever, you have provided fuck all. If many medical staff were not prepared to take the risk, why have so many gone to West Africa ?

Here is the link I provided previously to a news article showing how West Africa is desperate for aid workers, who aren't volunteering to go.

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RE: Withholding care - 10/27/2014 8:46:24 AM

Musicmystery

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And if you READ the article, you'll see the issue is financial.

Richer West African nations -- like Nigeria -- have it under control.

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RE: Withholding care - 10/27/2014 5:05:51 PM

Sanity

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

And if you READ the article, you'll see the issue is financial.

Richer West African nations -- like Nigeria -- have it under control.

The article says the exact opposite

They don't need money, they need people

quote:

DAKAR (Reuters) - When Australia offered more than $2 million last month to the medical charity leading the fight against Ebola in West Africa, Medecins Sans Frontieres bluntly rejected it.

What was urgently needed from rich Western countries, MSF said, was not more money but doctors and nurses...

< Message edited by Sanity -- 10/27/2014 5:36:22 PM >

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RE: Withholding care - 10/27/2014 7:14:14 PM

Musicmystery

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And it says:

But the World Health Organization said this week that just 25 percent of the isolation beds needed to halt the disease's march through Sierra Leone, Guinea and Liberia are in place.

"The big gap is still in human resources," said Manuel Fontaine, head of U.N. child agency UNICEF in West Africa. "Money is necessary. It is an expensive operation."

"Building ETUs (Ebola treatments units) is the easy part, the more challenging and more dangerous part is making them run safely. To stay safe you have to think through thousands of details," said Sean Casey, who runs one such unit for the International Medical Corps in Bong County in northern Liberia.

One major issue had been the lack of guarantees that volunteers would be evacuated to Western hospitals if they fell ill. U.S. and EU officials have since guaranteed this.

Some aid workers suggest that the strategic importance of Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinea was not high enough to mobilize major resources until people in the United States and Europe fell ill and it became an issue in the West.

the West is not going to send a lot of its own people," Dakar-based independent West African political analyst Gilles Yabi told Reuters.

Cuba, however, has bucked the trend, with Havana training up 461 doctors and nurses so they can help fight Ebola. So far, 256 have been dispatched to West Africa.

Having been criticized for not doing enough to help while also imposing border closures and travel restrictions that have hurt Ebola-hit nations, African nations are now starting to pledge medics.

Doctors from Uganda, with years of experience fighting Ebola, are helping run a clinic in Monrovia. Congo, which has faced six outbreaks back home, is training 1,000 volunteers.

East African Nations have promised over 600 health workers and Nigeria, which has successfully contained its Ebola cases this year, has pledged 500 medics.

Ian Quick, director at Rethink Fragility, an organization that focuses on fragile states, said the Ebola response was echoing current trends international peacekeeping, where rich states provide funds but poor nations send personnel.

“It makes sense in terms of comparative advantage ... but does tend to stick in everyone's craw ethically.”

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RE: Withholding care - 10/28/2014 6:03:12 AM

Sanity

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The article is exactly as I described it. Do you think that people cannot read?

Where does it say that the "issue is financial" as you claimed above.

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RE: Withholding care - 10/28/2014 6:57:27 AM

mnottertail

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"Money is necessary. It is an expensive operation."

Perhaps you can diagram those simple sentences for an English professor, there; nutsucker. Apparently, he reads English at a third grade level, comprehensively. I would attribute that at least in part to Republican provided land-grant colleges.

Education, eschewed by nutsuckers only slightly less than fact.

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RE: Withholding care - 10/28/2014 7:18:17 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

"Money is necessary. It is an expensive operation."

Perhaps you can diagram those simple sentences for an English professor, there; nutsucker. Apparently, he reads English at a third grade level, comprehensively. I would attribute that at least in part to Republican provided land-grant colleges.

Education, eschewed by nutsuckers only slightly less than fact.

perhaps you could have copied the whole quote

http://news.yahoo.com/fear-indifference-leave-west-africa-desperate-ebola-staff-164936004--finance.html

"The big gap is still in human resources," said Manuel Fontaine, head of U.N. child agency UNICEF in West Africa. "Money is necessary. It is an expensive operation. But we need people."

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RE: Withholding care - 10/28/2014 8:13:26 AM

mnottertail

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That is a different kettle of fish. I saw what was written.

However, it is the old bullshit in any case.

Oh, they need money. Oh, they need people. Alas and alack!!!! Woe unto us.

They will need the money if they get the people, and they will get the people is monies are available. In any case, people are dying. All sides of the fence.

Donors are stumping up millions of dollars to pay local healthcare workers risk bonuses following a rash of strikes.

Nobody wants to die for their country, anymore than die for ebola. End of Ayn Rand in reality, innit?

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RE: Withholding care - 10/28/2014 8:57:34 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

That is a different kettle of fish. I saw what was written.

However, it is the old bullshit in any case.

Oh, they need money. Oh, they need people. Alas and alack!!!! Woe unto us.

They will need the money if they get the people, and they will get the people is monies are available. In any case, people are dying. All sides of the fence.

Donors are stumping up millions of dollars to pay local healthcare workers risk bonuses following a rash of strikes.

Nobody wants to die for their country, anymore than die for ebola. End of Ayn Rand in reality, innit?

You need to step away from the bottle dancing man.

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RE: Withholding care - 10/28/2014 9:08:28 AM

mnottertail

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you need to get up off your knees cunt, them scabs are festering your ebola, and your vacuous brain pan is whistling around in there with cigarette and chewing gum wrappers.

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RE: Withholding care - 10/28/2014 9:39:05 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

you need to get up off your knees cunt, them scabs are festering your ebola, and your vacuous brain pan is whistling around in there with cigarette and chewing gum wrappers.

Touched a nerve did I? You are a class act aren't you dancing man. And your little rant only proves that when you are called on your bullshit, you response is to spew filth. And then you wonder why most people ignore you.

edited to add...and if the on my knees was a suggestion that I would ever go near that nutsuck you are so obsessed with, then you really are flipping out of your mind. Your best bet on that one is the nearest airport bathroom. Just sayin

< Message edited by thishereboi -- 10/28/2014 9:41:48 AM >

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RE: Withholding care - 10/28/2014 10:41:14 AM

mnottertail

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Nope, scum doesnt hit the fuckin radar, twat.

You couldn't call on nothing, since you have nothing, you are simply a cretin, and more than a bit of an artless cunt.

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RE: Withholding care - 10/28/2014 12:38:53 PM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Nope, scum doesnt hit the fuckin radar, twat.

You couldn't call on nothing, since you have nothing, you are simply a cretin, and more than a bit of an artless cunt.

Oh you poor widdle nutsacker, you really think I care, don't you?