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RE: Asexuality - 11/7/2014 9:42:21 AM   
GoddessManko


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From: Dante's Inferno
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug

IMO, when someone prefaces a comment with "I don't understand", especially in this context, there is a clear idea behind it. And, when someone says, "if I can't have sex with someone, I might as well be hanging out with my brother"...again, clear message.


LOL "I dont understand" why you "dont understand" that her viewpoint is her viewpoint and she has a right to it.. whether you agree with it or not..

Why are you getting so upset by it? life is too short..


It's fine to have a viewpoint or personal perspective, but it's unfair to others when you try to force those viewpoints on others or view their perspective as inherently wrong and yours inherently correct when experience on the matters differs entirely.


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RE: Asexuality - 11/7/2014 10:11:51 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug

IMO, when someone prefaces a comment with "I don't understand", especially in this context, there is a clear idea behind it. And, when someone says, "if I can't have sex with someone, I might as well be hanging out with my brother"...again, clear message.


LOL "I dont understand" why you "dont understand" that her viewpoint is her viewpoint and she has a right to it.. whether you agree with it or not..

Why are you getting so upset by it? life is too short..


It's fine to have a viewpoint or personal perspective, but it's unfair to others when you try to force those viewpoints on others or view their perspective as inherently wrong and yours inherently correct when experience on the matters differs entirely.


who is forcing anyone???

honestly,.. this is an online discussion.. why would anyone get their knickers in a bunch about something online anyway?

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RE: Asexuality - 11/7/2014 10:21:25 AM   
GoddessManko


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

who is forcing anyone???

honestly,.. this is an online discussion.. why would anyone get their knickers in a bunch about something online anyway?


I wasn't disagreeing, nor did I see anyone get particularly riled. I'm just saying there should be some understanding that people's personal preferences and dynamics differ. OK, Greta doesn't understand it, that's fine. It's something else to say "that's the equivalent of a relationship with a sibling". There are many ways to explore BDSM which does not at all include sex, in fact it upholds ideas of chastity. That doesn't mean any of us are eager to tie up our siblings. I have had GREAT subs I simply did not want to engage that way, and I get that's not the case for everyone.

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Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Asexuality - 11/7/2014 10:54:06 AM   
HeartAndSoul31


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Greta girl you are so funny!
He was actually a Master. Scouts honor. The things he was exceptional with made him a Master in them. He definitely had that kind of power but not the power I needed.
P.s. I am not making fun of you, I think your cute as a button.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

if I can't have sex with someone, I might as well be hanging out with my brother

And that's my point of view. It's the truth. Should I lie and make something else up?
I think tt is a saint.
I wouldn't take 4 years from a dude who is okay with only receiving blow jobs but refuses to return any pleasure at all and his not even a dom!



< Message edited by HeartAndSoul31 -- 11/7/2014 10:55:55 AM >

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RE: Asexuality - 11/9/2014 2:16:42 AM   
gurotrash


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Oh, gosh, I've been off the grid for a while, my pardons while I catch up on this. It looks like a lot of good discussion's been generated, though, so I'm excited to catch up!

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RE: Asexuality - 11/9/2014 2:45:44 AM   
gurotrash


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In order as the thread goes, and this is likely to be a very involved response, so forgive if I don't target someone's post directly in the event that it was guided towards me and seemed to be generally covered by a response to another:
For those who don't have primary partners, it becomes a bit of a grey area, I suppose as for sexuality in general. I tend to use the rule of thumb and go by whatever an individual's identity is, but it certainly wouldn't be out of the question for one to consider traditionally non-sexual individuals as asexuals, though it's also within reason to see that kink is, in and of itself, a sexuality, which is the interest that sparked my starting the thread.
Agh, yes, I think I was a bit overzealous in attempting to be specific. Too far into academic terms, nowhere near far enough into any level of common understanding. But, yes, I do believe that aspect is correct. The line between what is considered sexuality and what is considered kink or fetishism is what I'm looking for in this discussion. It's specifically the degree to which the D/s arena can be considered non-sexual that I'm seeking, and I'm already getting a good continuum from this first page of responses. Many thanks for the input provided thus far. =)
Well said, in various posts, on the variance of human sexuality! I tend to describe it as the "wibbly wobbly ball," in some words. We find new words to describe degrees of sexuality as they are embraced and discovered, not the other way around, and I'd wager that a new academic paradigm is on the verge of birth. Wonderful inputs on this front from every response! Fluidity, ambiguity, and a touch of incomprehensibility, even, are what I find to be ideals in an approach to examining sexuality, and these posts do very well in reflecting that in words that I was unable to grasp. Again, many thanks!
Likewise, well met in use of terminology in some of the other posts, particularly regarding gender and romantic alignments outside of sexuality, as well as clarification. It seems this thread has attracted a grand crowd. I've learned a few things from everyone's posts, as well, and I realize that I keep adding them, but thanks are due where they are due, so again, many thanks! And it looks like a few have even resonated with the terms applied throughout the thread, and I'm very glad that this has become a vein of education, of sorts.
Aaaaah, the mental exercises that have been proposed have been beautiful! It's been such a pleasure to read through them!
For a brief bit of my own input on the recently regarded issues, though I've just been over the whole of it and presently don't have specific responses, I believe that the fluidity of sexuality and the interaction and potential disconnect with other notions of feelings, e.g. romanticism, fetishism, and kink, are relevant at this point in the conversation. I think that it's likely prudent to mention poly-oriented individuals at this point, as well, as there is a solid community of those who find that their various needs are best met by various individuals as opposed to a single person. A platonic front for one, a sexual for another, a romantic for another, and an ambiguously non-sexual front (kink- or intellectual-based, for sake of conversation in this context) in another, for a hypothetical example. Though it's uncommon, some individuals identify sexually towards one gender and romantically towards another, even. Humans are very complex, it seems, but that's what makes this sort of discourse all the more compelling. =D

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RE: Asexuality - 11/9/2014 4:50:10 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko
There are many ways to explore BDSM which does not at all include sex, in fact it upholds ideas of chastity. That doesn't mean any of us are eager to tie up our siblings. I have had GREAT subs I simply did not want to engage that way, and I get that's not the case for everyone.

Woman! Seriously, it was a vanilla relationship, it was not BDSM.

If it was BDSM, then I've clearly said, BDSM isn't about sex and many people have BDSM relationships without sex.

Also BDSM relationships can be with people who isn't gonna be your life partner.

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RE: Asexuality - 11/9/2014 5:36:09 AM   
DesFIP


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Choosing to get involved with someone who cannot be sexual is different than abandoning a husband of 30 years because he loses the ability to perform due to prostate cancer, for example.

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RE: Asexuality - 11/9/2014 5:54:18 AM   
FieryOpal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: gurotrash
<snip>
I believe that the fluidity of sexuality and the interaction and potential disconnect with other notions of feelings, e.g. romanticism, fetishism, and kink, are relevant at this point in the conversation. I think that it's likely prudent to mention poly-oriented individuals at this point, as well, as there is a solid community of those who find that their various needs are best met by various individuals as opposed to a single person. A platonic front for one, a sexual for another, a romantic for another, and an ambiguously non-sexual front (kink- or intellectual-based, for sake of conversation in this context) in another, for a hypothetical example. Though it's uncommon, some individuals identify sexually towards one gender and romantically towards another, even. Humans are very complex, it seems, but that's what makes this sort of discourse all the more compelling. =D

That would be the subject of another thread perhaps, if you wanted to know how some persons can have sexual feelings for one gender or type of partner, but can only get romantically involved with the other gender or type of partner. I wouldn't classify this under "Asexuality." The pattern I've seen, informally, with some bisexuals is a sexual attraction for the same gender, while romantic attraction remains heterosexual. I don't know what this is called, do you?

As for no desire for sex and no feelings of love for a BDSM play partner is fairly common, in that there are many Tops and bottoms who do not need to feel an intimate connection with whomever is Topping them or bottoming for them, other than a basic level of trust. This doesn't need overthinking. There are some people who are more performance-oriented, want to show off or share their skillset with others, get their BDSM itch scratched, or just enjoy indulging in their amusements more like a hobby with most any willing participant.

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RE: Asexuality - 11/9/2014 6:20:35 AM   
ExiledTyrant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal


quote:

ORIGINAL: gurotrash
<snip>
I believe that the fluidity of sexuality and the interaction and potential disconnect with other notions of feelings, e.g. romanticism, fetishism, and kink, are relevant at this point in the conversation. I think that it's likely prudent to mention poly-oriented individuals at this point, as well, as there is a solid community of those who find that their various needs are best met by various individuals as opposed to a single person. A platonic front for one, a sexual for another, a romantic for another, and an ambiguously non-sexual front (kink- or intellectual-based, for sake of conversation in this context) in another, for a hypothetical example. Though it's uncommon, some individuals identify sexually towards one gender and romantically towards another, even. Humans are very complex, it seems, but that's what makes this sort of discourse all the more compelling. =D

That would be the subject of another thread perhaps, if you wanted to know how some persons can have sexual feelings for one gender or type of partner, but can only get romantically involved with the other gender or type of partner. I wouldn't classify this under "Asexuality." The pattern I've seen, informally, with some bisexuals is a sexual attraction for the same gender, while romantic attraction remains heterosexual. I don't know what this is called, do you?

As for no desire for sex and no feelings of love for a BDSM play partner is fairly common, in that there are many Tops and bottoms who do not need to feel an intimate connection with whomever is Topping them or bottoming for them, other than a basic level of trust. This doesn't need overthinking. There are some people who are more performance-oriented, want to show off or share their skillset with others, get their BDSM itch scratched, or just enjoy indulging in their amusements more like a hobby with most any willing participant.


In my sick and twisted mind that is bisexual behavior. One that is attracted physically and romantically to either gender I call "either-sexual". Furthermore, in my sickness, I feel most bisexuals prefer to have sex with the same sex along with their opposite sex partner and an "either-sexual" will have sex with either sex independently.

We all know that there are 50 shades of sexuality, beyond Heterosexual-bisexual-homosexual, and as sexual freedom and liberty grows we expand our vocabulary to accommodate that. If the site would expand sexuality and the labels for WIITWD, it would make for a better hunting ground.

Jus sayin

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RE: Asexuality - 11/9/2014 7:05:39 AM   
FieryOpal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

In my sick and twisted mind that is bisexual behavior. One that is attracted physically and romantically to either gender I call "either-sexual". Furthermore, in my sickness, I feel most bisexuals prefer to have sex with the same sex along with their opposite sex partner and an "either-sexual" will have sex with either sex independently.

We all know that there are 50 shades of sexuality, beyond Heterosexual-bisexual-homosexual, and as sexual freedom and liberty grows we expand our vocabulary to accommodate that. If the site would expand sexuality and the labels for WIITWD, it would make for a better hunting ground.

Jus sayin

Yes, no need to overcomplicate things. Btw, when I was referring to romantic attraction, this was inclusive of sexual desire, in case anyone misunderstood. Romantic attraction devoid of sexual desire would be a form of Asexuality, as is having strictly platonic friendships which are close emotionally but not sexualized in nature. This is why I don't consider fuckbuddies to be FWBs. These aren't ordinarily your friends in a loyal friendship sense, buddies you can count on through thick and thin who are looking out for you and have your back.

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RE: Asexuality - 11/10/2014 2:11:08 AM   
gurotrash


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

That would be the subject of another thread perhaps, if you wanted to know how some persons can have sexual feelings for one gender or type of partner, but can only get romantically involved with the other gender or type of partner. I wouldn't classify this under "Asexuality." The pattern I've seen, informally, with some bisexuals is a sexual attraction for the same gender, while romantic attraction remains heterosexual. I don't know what this is called, do you?


Oh, certainly, I didn't mean for that to come across as my categorizing it as asexuality. That was more a mass response to the content built up over the course of the thread in my absence. It slips my mind without rereading what spurred that particular thought, but I'm more than happy to go back through and figure that out if anyone would be interested in that.

But ExiledTyrant's take on it serves a good point. Regarding personal identities, it all depends upon how a person conceives of it. Someone under a different paradigm might identify their sexuality by their sexual partners, but simply not identify at all for their romantic partners (or vice versa). My imagination of it follows the tendency for individuals to pick the most common and simple term for convenience, like when gender-leaning bisexuals just identify as the orientation in terms that reflect their rare taste in anyone else. And, of course, there are the terms that make a seemingly-difficult concept easy to understand, even if not in common use, like "either-sexual." =)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

If the site would expand sexuality and the labels for WIITWD, it would make for a better hunting ground.


Boy howdy, though, would it ever. That's something I could get behind.

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RE: Asexuality - 11/10/2014 7:50:35 AM   
FieryOpal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: gurotrash

But ExiledTyrant's take on it serves a good point. Regarding personal identities, it all depends upon how a person conceives of it. Someone under a different paradigm might identify their sexuality by their sexual partners, but simply not identify at all for their romantic partners (or vice versa). My imagination of it follows the tendency for individuals to pick the most common and simple term for convenience, like when gender-leaning bisexuals just identify as the orientation in terms that reflect their rare taste in anyone else. And, of course, there are the terms that make a seemingly-difficult concept easy to understand, even if not in common use, like "either-sexual." =)
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

If the site would expand sexuality and the labels for WIITWD, it would make for a better hunting ground.

Boy howdy, though, would it ever. That's something I could get behind.

Don't forget y'all--There's first dibs on getting Top & bottom classifications set up. (Do we really need a separate "slave" category, after all? It's fairly meaningless as a distinction here the way this term gets used by most.)

S/switches need to get their own color-coding (green for male, orange for female?) and not get lumped in with submissives (baby blue & pink).

Then there's something that needs straightened out with Transgenders and how they get color-coded by orientation not corresponding correctly.

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Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

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RE: Asexuality - 11/10/2014 1:40:06 PM   
EmpressElsa


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Do remember gurotrash, being bruised or seeing bruising in others isn't necessarily on the sexuality spectrum. I know, the DSM only classifies paraphilias like masochism as a sexual disorder. However, one can be a masochist and still be asexual. One can love bondage and still be asexual. One can still be dominated and be asexual. Yes it is common for sex and BDSM to be associated, but this is not always the case (though it IS far less common than the aforementioned association).

To some people BDSM is about sensation but not about their sexuality. For some it's interesting, exciting, stimulating, but definitely not in relation to one's self or sexual nature. For others it is a matter of aesthetics- seeing someone tied up can be beautiful, as can well-placed marks and bruising. After all, one can appreciate art without being an artist.

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RE: Asexuality - 11/10/2014 5:49:15 PM   
Inghammar


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My partner describes herself as 'sort of on the asexual spectrum'. If it weren't for her appetite for rubber and 'gimpiness', she'd have close to zero sexual expression.

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RE: Asexuality - 11/10/2014 6:58:19 PM   
AAkasha


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How would you define someone who gets sexually aroused by BDSM or S&M but doesn't need to have an orgasm, get intimate or get sexual as a result of that arousal?

I can tie up a guy (fully clothed), get turned on, but nothing sexual happens.

In fact, I used to do all these stuff before I realized what sensuality was. I had wet panties before I knew what wet panties were. As in, went home, pulled down my panties, and wondered if I accidentally peed. That's now naive I was. I was super young.

Sexual, sensual arousal, but not DESIRE for FUCKING or orgasm. But femdom, S&m, male surrender, suffering, bondage and whatnot all push "buttons" that make me very excited in a "sexual-like" manner, yet do not make me "ache" for "sex" the way physical. manual foreplay makes me 'ache' for progression to sexual intercourse or completion of sexual acts.

Now if I am sexually attracted to said person and we are combining the S&M acts with kissing and fondling then it sets off other bells and whistles but to be honest that's like mixing wires and confuses my brain a lot. I prefer things separate, it's just easier for me to process. Or, I like ONE, and then the other AFTER.

BDSM is an entirely different "rush" for me. My body reacts sexually (juices-wise, fore lack of a better word) but I sure don't need to fuck afterward, unless that's on the menu. And I have a separate appetite, and it's a stronger appetite. I can go more days without an orgasm than I can without S&M. Easily.

Akasha

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RE: Asexuality - 11/10/2014 7:47:38 PM   
FieryOpal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
....
Now if I am sexually attracted to said person and we are combining the S&M acts with kissing and fondling then it sets off other bells and whistles but to be honest that's like mixing wires and confuses my brain a lot. I prefer things separate, it's just easier for me to process. Or, I like ONE, and then the other AFTER.
....

That's interesting, how you prefer to compartmentalize sex from BDSM. For me, the erotic has to be integrated into whatever I do, and arousal is an escalating process. In fact, mental arousal is a bigger turn-on for me in terms of foreplay.

I don't know whether sado-masochism is the deciding factor in this since I'm not sadistic.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

How would you define someone who gets sexually aroused by BDSM or S&M but doesn't need to have an orgasm, get intimate or get sexual as a result of that arousal?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYHxGBH6o4M

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

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RE: Asexuality - 11/10/2014 7:53:42 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

How would you define someone who gets sexually aroused by BDSM or S&M but doesn't need to have an orgasm, get intimate or get sexual as a result of that arousal?

Masochistic!!!

But it seems like it's quite common for dommes to want to tease the hell out of man and have power over them but do not want sex with them or have anything to with them sexually or physically.

The basis of D/S is about control and never about sex.

And it also has to do with the act of penetration. Why man tend to use sex as a form of control more than women, like women chose to deprive, and men chose to over-inflict, I mean, in a D/S situation, because I guess it's in his rod entering her inner space. It's invading.



< Message edited by Greta75 -- 11/10/2014 7:57:36 PM >

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RE: Asexuality - 11/10/2014 9:20:54 PM   
seekingreality


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quote:

ORIGINAL: gurotrash

Hello!

Without anyone having to take the trouble to go to my profile, I'm a Psychology enthusiast with some research background, at that, ahaha.

I've done a bit of digging into various communities, but I'm curious on a personal level; what does everyone here feel about asexual spectrum individuals in this community of kinksters? Please do be as candid as possible for my curiosity's sake! Although delicately worded responses are, of course, in favor of those marginalized members, so I do encourage those. Personal and mental distress may occur given any response regardless of my introduction to the subject in this forum, so do be wary, as I'd suggest those susceptible members would be.

Without further ado, however!

Autochorissexualism as a term heavily applies to this community, especially in the case of asexual spectrum individuals but also in the cases of other identities. The idea is that one's sexuality does not necessarily need to relate to oneself, e.g. the idea that one would find the bruising of an individual stimulating, but not in the case of oneself or one's potential (or lack thereof) partners. This is the meat of what I'd like to discuss, if possible. While asexuality is generally a disregarded community, as per my observation (which is flawed, of course), this specific intersection is of interest and I do anticipate the opinions of anyone who deigns to respond. This will be a great boon to not only my curiosity, but also potentially to future research projects, so please do respond to one's heart's content! Thank Y/you very much!


I think it's telling that you really haven't seen many asexual people respond to this thread, particularly those who fall under the strict definition of "autochorissexualism." In my personal experience, I have very rarely encountered asexual individuals in the kink community.


< Message edited by seekingreality -- 11/10/2014 9:22:42 PM >

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RE: Asexuality - 11/10/2014 10:22:39 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seekingreality
I have very rarely encountered asexual individuals in the kink community.

That is true. I have a girlfriend who calls herself asexual as she just has zero interest in sex, and zero interest in men or woman.

She's also the reason why I say asexual people don't need life partners. She really doesn't see the point of having a life partner, she is very happy alone. She has friends like normal people, to do things with, that's good enough, she has zero needs for intimacy, never the desire or the urge. And she's already nearly 40, and been happily being this way.

Infact, I think she's blessed. Imagine not needing intimacy in your life ever. Usually needing people in your life is what causes problem. When you don't need anybody, you're seriously a hell of a happy person, when you need someone, then it's the challenge of finding someone who meets your needs.

I on the other hand, can't live without men for sex. I need it like breathing. If I can't have sex with men, I'd rather be dead. Fortunately, it's not such a difficult desire to fulfill. But I always thought if I had zero desires in life, I'd be happier! No desires, no problems.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 11/10/2014 10:31:01 PM >

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