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RE: Mid Term Takeaways - 11/9/2014 12:25:27 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

The guy is pro-military, pro-business, and anti-democracy. What more could you conservatives want out of a candidate? The only places he differs from your guys is he doesn't want to institute a theocracy and a few social issues which are obviously important to some but to me sort of pale in the face of "no due process".



Not quite, Jeff. While he certainly enjoys mixing and mingling among the uber-wealthy of Wall Street and the Hollyweird elite, he's no friend at all to Main Street. He carries the authoritarian streak of the left proudly, and he can't get past the Marxism 101 view of how the world works ("ATMs destroy jobs" being an easy example).

Pro-military? On what fucking planet? He views the military as people to be sent off to get killed as a delaying tactic while his diplomatic efforts are given time to fail.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Mid Term Takeaways - 11/9/2014 3:01:52 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
Not quite, Jeff. While he certainly enjoys mixing and mingling among the uber-wealthy of Wall Street and the Hollyweird elite, he's no friend at all to Main Street. He carries the authoritarian streak of the left proudly, and he can't get past the Marxism 101 view of how the world works ("ATMs destroy jobs" being an easy example).

Pro-military? On what fucking planet? He views the military as people to be sent off to get killed as a delaying tactic while his diplomatic efforts are given time to fail.

I think we are violently agreeing although I separate out his rhetoric from what he really believes. I don't think he subscribes to any Marxist view on anything. I think he subscribes to the Oligarchy model with (as is usually the case) a large dose of police-state thrown in to keep the serfs in line. It's my understanding from the pathetic poli-sci training we get in America that what he wants would have been called either Fascism or Corporatism by Mussolini but definitely not Marxism.

Where you and I disagree is that you seem to think that the Republican party is somehow different and I do not. For me, the only difference is which particular set of Oligarchs they cozy up to. That, I think, is the real battle being fought. There are two groups of Oligarchs each vying for power, one represented by the Democrats and the other by the Republicans. "Main Street" is simply chess pieces on the board. But you and I don't need to debate this here and now. The next two years should show pretty clearly what the Republican party stands for. I'm willing to bet that they've done nothing for main street when we reconvene two years from now.

< Message edited by JeffBC -- 11/9/2014 3:02:51 PM >

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Mid Term Takeaways - 11/9/2014 3:11:24 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Just a quick reply, Jeff.

I think one major difference between the two parties is that the brand of authoritarianism which manifests among the Republicans is explicitly prohibited by the Constitution, while the Democrat version could be weaseled in by the lawyers. To my mind, that makes the Democrats slightly more dangerous.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Mid Term Takeaways - 11/9/2014 8:21:11 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
I think one major difference between the two parties is that the brand of authoritarianism which manifests among the Republicans is explicitly prohibited by the Constitution, while the Democrat version could be weaseled in by the lawyers. To my mind, that makes the Democrats slightly more dangerous.

I admit I tend towards high level abstractions but to me they look pretty identical. In both cases they want a Fascist/Corporatist Oligarchy with the bonds of slavery maintained with intense domestic surveillance and a fully militarized police force. Those things are, apparently, entirely constitutional says your own Republican justices on the supreme court. Beyond that you're talking flavors of slavery. There's some questions about how brutal it will be (thinking about the differences in life expectancy between the classes for instance). There's some questions about whether we'll be enslaved with or without abortions or a theocracy or a handful of other details. But if you care about freedom then they all look kind of similar. I'd prefer not to be anyone's slave.

In the end, though, I cede that they are both pretty ugly and you can slice and dice minutiae to come up with a preference. I cannot argue yours. Believe me, if I thought the Democrats had any sort of pro-democracy street cred I'd be making the case. I just prefer not to put bullets in the gun of my enemy -- either one of them.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Mid Term Takeaways - 11/18/2014 6:58:11 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

No Democrat could possibly get elected on the platform of repealing Obamacare and no Republican will ever hold the White House after promising to repeal it.


That er, um, wisdom, runs completely against the facts of every election since it ws passed.
29 of the 60 Dim Senators who voted for it are Senators no more.
Every Rep elected to the Senate this time around campaigned against it.

It is deeply, deeply unpopular.....

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Mid Term Takeaways - 11/18/2014 7:04:11 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		And Romney?

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Mid Term Takeaways - 11/18/2014 7:30:24 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline 		What does Romney have to do with this?


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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Mid Term Takeaways - 11/18/2014 7:55:24 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		You've already forgotten the 2012 campaign?

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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Mid Term Takeaways - 11/18/2014 8:34:04 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

No Democrat could possibly get elected on the platform of repealing Obamacare and no Republican will ever hold the White House after promising to repeal it.


That er, um, wisdom, runs completely against the facts of every election since it ws passed.
29 of the 60 Dim Senators who voted for it are Senators no more.
Every Rep elected to the Senate this time around campaigned against it.

It is deeply, deeply unpopular.....

Try reading what I wrote not the deeply crazy shit you wish I wrote dumbass.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Mid Term Takeaways - 11/18/2014 10:58:33 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave
Stop Ebobama!!!!


Oh my gosh, that is too funny!

It's not enough to just think like three yr. olds anymore, now apparently they have to complete the picture and talk like a three yr. old.

"Ebabababa!!!! Ebabababa!!!!"

Now the nutcase radio has them flubbing their lips as political commentary. And they do it, right on cue!

"Ebabababa!!!!"


LOL!




< Message edited by Edwynn -- 11/18/2014 11:02:15 PM >

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Mid Term Takeaways - 11/19/2014 1:59:54 AM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave
quote:

No Democrat could possibly get elected on the platform of repealing Obamacare and no Republican will ever hold the White House after promising to repeal it.


That er, um, wisdom, runs completely against the facts of every election since it ws passed.
29 of the 60 Dim Senators who voted for it are Senators no more.
Every Rep elected to the Senate this time around campaigned against it.

It is deeply, deeply unpopular.....


Its both sad and funny to realize that people view the ACA in unpopular viewpoints having not actually sat down and....READ...the law itself. That you and others could not explain the nature of the ACA with any reasonable accuracy. Metaphorically its like you firing an aimed gun and missing a target the side of Earth from two feet away. An you, being an expert shooter being even more sad/amusing.

Those whom won seats in Congress ran on.....nothing...useful. That's right, they'll spend the next year accomplishing absolutely nothing and blaming it all on Democrats. People like you, will hold them to zero levels of accountability and responsibility with power. Unfortunately, most of the people that voted, are neither conservative nor liberal; they are moderate. And they are expecting results that favor them personally. When Republicans and their Tea Party lackeys fail to deliver 'the goods', will vote Democrats back into office. Because in 2016, many more Republican seats come up for the election process.

Don't be so quick to get rid of something that is actually helping Americans. And could be helping yourself without realizing it. A guy I know, was a very strict libertarian. He wanted government spending reduced and actively pushed the process. Well, he got his wish; the government spending went down. Unfortunately, the government was the #2 spot for 'cash-in' for the company that hired his company to do labor (that he worked for, and not as management). He never knew his company's #2 client was the US Government. When the money stop flowing in, management laid people off. He lost his job, his house, his car, and his marriage. Be sure to think things through before you advocate getting rid of it.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Mid Term Takeaways - 11/19/2014 10:46:21 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		The fine art of reasoning so wishes it could be friends with you.
As does civility.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Mid Term Takeaways - 11/19/2014 10:47:36 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		That Romney lost in no way changes the facts that:

29 of the 60 Dim Senators who voted for it are Senators no more.
Every Rep elected to the Senate this time around campaigned against it.

It is deeply, deeply unpopular.....

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Mid Term Takeaways - 11/19/2014 10:57:16 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Ja, and we can tell by the lowest turnout in history since the beginning of WWII when people couldn't vote.

Fuckin deep I tell you. Deep apathy is what you have to peddle, because that is what is on the cart.

You want to start your 2016 predictions yet?

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Mid Term Takeaways - 11/19/2014 11:20:25 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

That Romney lost in no way changes the facts that:

29 of the 60 Dim Senators who voted for it are Senators no more.
Every Rep elected to the Senate this time around campaigned against it.


No one is questioning that. (Although you're making assumptions about voter motivation that I'll bet you *didn't* make in 2012 when Dems took the Senate and Obama was re-elected).

The OP's point included republican candidates and difficulty taking the White House over this. Romney ran on it. He lost. Seems a relevant point, and a problem for the "all Americans oppose ACA and vote that way" belief.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Mid Term Takeaways - 11/19/2014 11:27:55 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		Yeah, "vote that way" is problematical.

But so is assuming that Romney lost because he opposed EbobamaCare

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Mid Term Takeaways - 11/19/2014 11:30:02 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		...as is assuming anyone else lost/won for a single issue.

That's the point.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Mid Term Takeaways - 11/19/2014 12:49:23 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Are you giving odds on whether or not he see's it ?


_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Mid Term Takeaways - 11/19/2014 3:44:34 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

The fine art of reasoning so wishes it could be friends with you.
As does civility.

You are talking about reasoning? Really? Do you really want to go there? Reasoning is traditionally more than pathetic schoolyard insults for your information. When you can make an actual cogent argument get back to me.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Mid Term Takeaways - 11/20/2014 1:49:09 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

The fine art of reasoning so wishes it could be friends with you.
As does civility.

You are talking about reasoning? Really? Do you really want to go there? Reasoning is traditionally more than pathetic schoolyard insults for your information. When you can make an actual cogent argument get back to me.


This fine example of liberal erudition is from a man whose previous post to me consisted of:

Try reading what I wrote not the deeply crazy shit you wish I wrote dumbass.

Too funny.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 80
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