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Kontrol - 11/8/2014 10:30:45 AM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline 		InHisHeart made a post today that got me to thinking... mainly because I absolutely respect her dynamic, and it didn't occur to me that I did, in fact, absolutely respect her dynamic until her dynamic was questioned. For me, to see her posting about her dynamic isn't a big deal because that is how I feel it should be. However, when I saw her post how people viewed her dynamic I sat back and really thought about it and realized that I was lackadaisical in commending her because I feel that is how it should be... my opinion, and obviously shared with her and her D... we do not compliment the cat for meowing, but when the cat barks it becomes another matter altogether.

For me, it's my ship and my plunder has roles to fill; navigator, bosun, first mate, etc... I am very deferential and if she/they are on board that means I already have enough trust in them/her that big girl panties can be worn and I do not have to control every action and movement. The chart has been reviewed as one, the course plotted, everyone doing their jobs and clear sailing.

I do understand that with new relationships comes a difficult adjustment period... very difficult in vanilla, but we're not here for vanilla, are we? Therefore I am as candid as possible, line up my freaks, show them off to see if my freak wants to get it on with your freak, because it is the darker stuff that makes or breaks the relationship. I like to get all that taboo out first and then the day to day stuff like:

I'm a neat freak that is clinically insane (I like neat and organized, but have tools and materials all over the place. The house is under construction tho.)
I put my house to bed before I go to bed (everything is cleaned and put away... I HATE a dish drain in sight unless it has dishes drying in it.)

The list does go on and on. Nevertheless, I feel that, for me, control is a state of mind and not for non-consenting public display. Which brings me to the "freedom" part of InHisHeart's post. To me, and correct me if I am wrong, she is participating within the construct of her dynamic and "freedom" isn't the quantifying/qualifying attribute. It is what it is; it's not about freedom, it is about operating within the parameters of the dynamic. My dynamic is pretty clear and I will not operate out side of it... I get no special privileges as the D. I chose the responsible role and will be responsible for my actions and inactions at all times without deviating from the dynamic.

So, I suppose what I am posing you with is control and freedom and how those two elements exist in your dynamic.



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To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

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RE: Kontrol - 11/8/2014 11:25:33 AM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline 		I've been in only one truly TPE relationship. In my opinion the reason I don't jump right into that again and why I rally hard against D/s was that those two elements were way out of balance. I stubborn, flighty, and want to be able to argue my ideas and points naturally without all the protocol. I want to be heard. Perhaps I desire more freedom than most d types want to give or perhaps my guy was just too controlling and stifled me too much. I won't readily walk into it again. I got sick of being told what to do all the damn time. I had no time to myself, if I did, it was short lived, and I hated it.

I'm a Gemini in a lot of senses, I'm incredibly social, I love huge family gatherings and parties with friends, he started to take those things away and limit them and I got bullshit about it. I'm obidient to a point naturally, even in a vanilla relationship. I will bend over backwards for those I love and I'm fiercely loyal. When I start to feel limited and constrained, it's likeky I'll start beating myself up for not being able to do something. With him I was so miserable and irritated and juggling going to school full time and working. I had no time to clean my apartment, just his. I had no time to see my friends because he needed something done. Eventually I learned I am not someone will to give it all up for my partner. I don't like making sacrifices surrounding who I am for my partner. I just started to really hate it. He hated it cause I was getting rebellious and resentful. His immovable positions on things and his explaination of "it's just cause I'm the Dom" was truly stupid. I turned into his servant and the kinky sex and whatever love I had for him eventually did not outweigh the misery I was going through for him, and internally for struggling with giving up that much control.

Obviously currently have a lot of control and freedom. I'm much happier with time for me, equal ruling of the roost, and being able to weigh a decision with him, rather than rally against it.

I was stupid, young, and take a great deal of responsibility for how long that bad relationship was allowed to continue. But I also just feel too selfish and enjoy having a say way more than I enjoy relinquishing control and freedom to someone else.

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RE: Kontrol - 11/8/2014 3:04:04 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		But shifty, if he also loved being in gatherings of family and friends, then he wouldn't have limited them. It sounds more like you were incompatible than anything else.

He wants dinner as close to 6:30 as possible. That's control.
Freedom is he doesn't care what it is as long as it isn't a typical breakfast dish and doesn't contain anything he hates like brussel sprouts.

We didn't bother doing what ET does. We made sure we were both bondage lovers but didn't go into detail. As we were looking for a relationship, we made sure we agree politically and on child raising. The things that matter to either of us, the deal breakers, were discussed exhaustively.

The other stuff we got to it in time.

As long as there's a clean glass in the cabinet, he doesn't care when I do the dishes.

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Cynical and proud of it!


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RE: Kontrol - 11/8/2014 3:13:03 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		I have to have freedom to do what I want and need to do. I cannot be micromanaged.

I cannot have some selfishly be controlling. I especially cannot have someone try to be controlling while not being communicative.

I guess I cannot do 24/7 because I never found any of my past Doms to be inspiring enough or I am just more of a free spirited sub.

< Message edited by sexyred1 -- 11/8/2014 3:14:29 PM >

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RE: Kontrol - 11/8/2014 3:30:22 PM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline 		I feel like red. It was really not me.

He made me do his FAFSA form for him while he watched tv. He was just delegating tasks poorly. Me doing his FAFSA forms does not really benefit us as much as it does him. It was stupid because he had a lot more time to do that shit than I did. I felt like I was fitting a square peg into a round hole.

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RE: Kontrol - 11/8/2014 3:32:53 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		And since I am really into this because it fuels my sexuality, control outside of the bedroom does not work.

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RE: Kontrol - 11/8/2014 3:43:26 PM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline 		Yah bingo.
I felt like selfish because if I "really loved him" I would "find satisfaction in serving him" and I mostly just got pissed that I was his maid, secretary, and day planner before I was his dirty little fucktoy. I much prefer the role of fucktoy being the first role.

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RE: Kontrol - 11/8/2014 3:50:43 PM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		Steve is an NLP technician which I see right through but watching him with a submissive is fascinating. I've always said, Steve is a much better leader than I am and its those good leadership qualities that brings out the inspiration to submit. I don't have anything like as much self control as him so I'm not a consistent leader. My expectations of a submissive start at the beginning, long before we decide to take things further. Unlike Steve, I have to satisfy myself that I'm doing this with a grown-up who absolutely knows what they are looking for and not some idiot who's going to curl into the foetal position and start sucking their thumb when they don't get their own way. Steve has a lot more patience than me and he's so reliably consistent that he's like a bloody magician when it comes to satisfying his needs whilst satisfying the needs of his sub.

I believe tolerance and fairness is essential for any relationship if its going to be ongoing. Its not about taking someone's life and selfishly changing it to fit your needs but about taking responsibility within that relationship and managing those needs in a balanced way that will suit both parties.

ETS shiftyw, your first post was really interesting. Take away the consensual dominance and I bet an awful lot of vanilla couples could relate to that second paragraph. I always wonder why someone would want to change that fun person they were initially so attracted to.

< Message edited by MariaB -- 11/8/2014 3:57:00 PM >

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RE: Kontrol - 11/8/2014 4:15:36 PM   
InHisHeart


Posts: 630
Joined: 3/22/2014
Status: offline 		ET!

I have to chuckle when someone tells me what my relationship is/isn't or how it should be. Others get a small glimpse of how we live, what our dynamics are.

Him having control isn't about micromanaging, he couldn't be bothered with that and being micromanaged is not something I want or would deal with. There are things that have to be his way, things I have to do, rules I have to follow and I knew what they were before we got involved.

We both also laid our freak out on the table when we were just chatting. Compatibility is important to us in all aspects of the relationship and our kinks are no less important than any other part of the relationship.

I travel back to my home state where my family is when I want. I don't have to ask his permission to go or ask how long I could stay. That was discussed from the get-go and it was a condition of mine. Since I was moving 500+ miles to be with him, if my traveling wasn't acceptable to him then the relationship simply would not be. He never had an issue with it.

I have my finances, he has his finances and we have joint finances. He does not control any of my money or my assets.

I'm not told what to do every minute of the day, I don't have to ask permission to meet a friend for lunch or go shopping or how to spend my money, etc. I do check with him to see if he has plans or needs me for something before I make plans to meet a friend, shop or whatever.

When he wants me do something, I do it without hesitation and I don't complain even if it's something I don't like doing.

Whatever decisions are to be made that involve both of us, we discuss it, he'll listen to my thoughts but he has the final say. Whether it's what restaurant we'll go to or a remodeling project. Whatever decisions involve just me or our pets, he'll give me his thoughts but I have the final say.



_____________________________

I don't have a bucket list but my fucket list is a mile long.

I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief.


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RE: Kontrol - 11/8/2014 4:28:18 PM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: InHisHeart

ET!

I have to chuckle when someone tells me what my relationship is/isn't or how it should be. Others get a small glimpse of how we live, what our dynamics are.

Him having control isn't about micromanaging, he couldn't be bothered with that and being micromanaged is not something I want or would deal with. There are things that have to be his way, things I have to do, rules I have to follow and I knew what they were before we got involved.

We both also laid our freak out on the table when we were just chatting. Compatibility is important to us in all aspects of the relationship and our kinks are no less important than any other part of the relationship.

I travel back to my home state where my family is when I want. I don't have to ask his permission to go or ask how long I could stay. That was discussed from the get-go and it was a condition of mine. Since I was moving 500+ miles to be with him, if my traveling wasn't acceptable to him then the relationship simply would not be. He never had an issue with it.

I have my finances, he has his finances and we have joint finances. He does not control any of my money or my assets.

I'm not told what to do every minute of the day, I don't have to ask permission to meet a friend for lunch or go shopping or how to spend my money, etc. I do check with him to see if he has plans or needs me for something before I make plans to meet a friend, shop or whatever.

When he wants me do something, I do it without hesitation and I don't complain even if it's something I don't like doing.

Whatever decisions are to be made that involve both of us, we discuss it, he'll listen to my thoughts but he has the final say. Whether it's what restaurant we'll go to or a remodeling project. Whatever decisions involve just me or our pets, he'll give me his thoughts but I have the final say.





No cat barking there. This is how I see it as well.


_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

(in reply to InHisHeart)
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RE: Kontrol - 11/8/2014 7:15:22 PM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline 		Honestly...this is mostly how my relationship is outside the bedroom. Except I don't really have rules I have to follow (i.e. Dinner on the table by 6:30). I mean the only difference is he also has to kinda answer to me. If he is going out with a friend and will be late, he texts me.

Is that the only difference here?

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RE: Kontrol - 11/8/2014 8:57:45 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		He texts me if he's going to be late. Because he respects me as much as I do him.

But he isn't lazy and selfish. He wants the responsibilities more than he wants the rights. He's an excellent decision maker so I don't have to worry about what he'll decide.

And he listens to me. He doesn't always agree but I'm heard and validated and that's what I need more than I need to be the final decision maker.

He puts my welfare and the security of the relationship at the top of his criteria to make a decision. That's important to me.

< Message edited by DesFIP -- 11/8/2014 9:05:17 PM >

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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RE: Kontrol - 11/9/2014 3:30:31 AM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

Honestly...this is mostly how my relationship is outside the bedroom. Except I don't really have rules I have to follow (i.e. Dinner on the table by 6:30). I mean the only difference is he also has to kinda answer to me. If he is going out with a friend and will be late, he texts me.

Is that the only difference here?


Dinner's at 6, not 6:30. I think you fell into the "Neanderthal" D/s your first go round... or I am doing it wrong. I like respect, courtesy, and relationship security. The best way for me to achieve those things is to pour those things into the Dynamic of the relationship. We see and hear about Neanderthal D's a lot, but their relationships usually turn out the same way the Neanderthal did. Don't get me wrong, I have hard lines and it's baseball with me. No matter how much I like someone or care for them, three strikes is it... and it is usually quite hard for me to allow her to get to a third strike when she is full aware of what the lines are.

_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

(in reply to shiftyw)
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RE: Kontrol - 11/9/2014 3:37:26 AM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

He texts me if he's going to be late. Because he respects me as much as I do him.

But he isn't lazy and selfish. He wants the responsibilities more than he wants the rights. He's an excellent decision maker so I don't have to worry about what he'll decide.

And he listens to me. He doesn't always agree but I'm heard and validated and that's what I need more than I need to be the final decision maker.

He puts my welfare and the security of the relationship at the top of his criteria to make a decision. That's important to me.


I agree with all of that, but what "rights" are you talking about? From all I know of your relationship it is very much in sync, deferential, and both of your needs and wants are being met, so I am confused about the "rights" part.


_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

(in reply to DesFIP)
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RE: Kontrol - 11/9/2014 6:39:19 AM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant


quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

Honestly...this is mostly how my relationship is outside the bedroom. Except I don't really have rules I have to follow (i.e. Dinner on the table by 6:30). I mean the only difference is he also has to kinda answer to me. If he is going out with a friend and will be late, he texts me.

Is that the only difference here?


Dinner's at 6, not 6:30. I think you fell into the "Neanderthal" D/s your first go round... or I am doing it wrong. I like respect, courtesy, and relationship security. The best way for me to achieve those things is to pour those things into the Dynamic of the relationship. We see and hear about Neanderthal D's a lot, but their relationships usually turn out the same way the Neanderthal did. Don't get me wrong, I have hard lines and it's baseball with me. No matter how much I like someone or care for them, three strikes is it... and it is usually quite hard for me to allow her to get to a third strike when she is full aware of what the lines are.


See I have an issue with that very basic rule.
Simply, sometimes I'm not home at six. Sometimes that happens five nights a week. A few of my vanilla relationships had issues with this. I tell them to kick rocks, cause it's just work and if you're not secure enough to make and eat dinner alone, because I'm stuck at work, my grandparents/parents then I can't make it work. I love my work. I am a very hard worker, and it makes me happy. If a d interupts that, I get in happy really quick, but usually eating dinner at six is his happy, so when I interupt that, they get miserable real quick.

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RE: Kontrol - 11/9/2014 6:54:04 AM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline 		Odds are good I cook better than you anyway, I do cook better than most people. Dinner is at 6 and it is not dependent on you, or anyone else, to be made. Having dinner with someone is a want, not a need for me, and it's not that big of a want. I've spent a lot of time alone, spent most of my life traveling, so dinner alone is normal for me and it wouldn't ruffle my feathers at all.

I think way too many people get caught up in gender roles and D/s roles. Again, I tend 100% of my house alone... cook, clean, laundry etc... and I have no intentions of changing that, but I do have an expectation that whomever joins me has a 100% attitude as well. Then by happy accident I'm making 50% of the bed and eventually 33.3% of the bed. Will I begrudge that if she is up and out the door before I roll out of bed at 5am? Nope, I'll make 100% of the bed just as I have everyday of my life and will continue to do the rest of my life. Household work isn't Dominant or submissive, masculine or feminine, it is simply responsibility that any reasonable person would tend.

_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

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RE: Kontrol - 11/9/2014 8:35:12 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		So what warrants a strike ET?

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RE: Kontrol - 11/9/2014 8:47:52 AM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

So what warrants a strike ET?


The seven deadly sins topped by bitching and P/a behavior. I have 0 tolerance for bitching, I'm a problem solver and once presented with an issue I resolve it if it is within my power to resolve. I'm defined by my happiness and so many people are defined by their misery their quality of life is nothing. Therefore I keep the positive in my life as much as possible and shut the negative out. Many times I find myself thinking three strikes is way too generous... why would you need three strikes if you know up front the do's and dont's?

_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

(in reply to MariaB)
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RE: Kontrol - 11/9/2014 9:30:31 AM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline 		I'd be out for gluttony and lust way before bitching haha

Also might I remind you, I run a restaurant, I'm sure you cook well, but that's kinda my wheelhouse.

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RE: Kontrol - 11/9/2014 9:52:55 AM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

I'd be out for gluttony and lust way before bitching haha

Also might I remind you, I run a restaurant, I'm sure you cook well, but that's kinda my wheelhouse.


We'll have to put it to the test sometime, but you should consider that I have traveled a lot and food is the universal language.

Jus sayin

_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

(in reply to shiftyw)
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