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The Future of the BDSM Community - 11/15/2014 7:24:53 PM   
BecomingV


Posts: 916
Joined: 11/11/2013
Status: offline 		I'd like to discuss the future of the BDSM community.

The DSM is a profit-mongering tool, poorly constructed and suspect as a valid resource. However, for the purpose of this discussion, let's just go with the idea that it matters. It is used for insurance billing and for labeling anyone who is prescribed drugs. It used to label homosexuality as a mental illness. Until recently, sadomasochism was treated exactly the same... as a mental illness. Now, it's not. So, there's a change in the institutionalized, medical community and that change is a step towards acceptance of BDSM as a healthy expression of human sexuality.

On a cultural level, books like "Fifty Shades..." are driving marketing campaigns, sales of toys and clothing and the attention and interest of academics.

So, acceptance of gay marriage hasn't changed a need or desire for gay bars, gay clubs or gay interest groups. I think the same will remain true for BDSM. The community will still desire meeting places for this special interest group.

But, will the BDSM community simply blend into the spectrum of "normal" human sexuality?

If it becomes commonplace to see people in bondage or wearing fetish clothing or even being spanked at a party, will there then be less a need for separate groups or meeting places?

Whether you see expansion or minimization, how do you feel about it, and why?

Notes:
There are plenty of threads which decry Fifty Shades as NOT being representative of our community. Blah, blah, blah. Please don't bore this thread with more of THAT! I didn't say it was. I used it as THE example of what is driving public arenas to notice our community... like it or not, the part about its influence is factual.

Older posters have experienced changes such as I suggest may happen. Divorced people weren't respected. People didn't used to say the words, "alcoholic" or "gay" or "cancer." Now, they talk about incest and rape and pedophilia, openly. These societal changes do happen. This discussion refers to BDSM in that context.
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RE: The Future of the BDSM Community - 11/15/2014 7:29:35 PM   
ThatDaveGuy69


Posts: 978
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		And you're an expert on this because? Your MD came from which university?

"The DSM is a profit-mongering tool, poorly constructed and suspect as a valid resource. However, for the purpose of this discussion, let's just go with the idea that it matters. It is used for insurance billing and for labeling anyone who is prescribed drugs."

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RE: The Future of the BDSM Community - 11/15/2014 7:50:29 PM   
BecomingV


Posts: 916
Joined: 11/11/2013
Status: offline 		Hey Dave,

So, you were thinking that an online chat board is the place for you to question credentials of posters?

Are you aware that the DSM is called, "the bible" of psychiatry? Did you know that people debate and question the veracity of religious bibles, as well?

Special interest groups have reasons for defending their respective bibles, but their perspectives, values and capacity for objectivity... varies.

So, if I were to state that I have earned not a M.D. but rather a Psy.D., would that change your ability to comprehend the OP or to focus on the questions posed?

If I said that gay bashing originates with bible passages, would you need me to be a priest to consider my view?

Your response is very... attention-seeking and off-topic and honestly, suggestive of some special interest bias. I sent you C-mail with a link to information which may expand your view.

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RE: The Future of the BDSM Community - 11/16/2014 1:20:50 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		But, will the BDSM community simply blend into the spectrum of "normal" human sexuality?

BDSM can be anything from soft and fluffy to severely sadistic and masochistic. I believe that some BDSM activities fit nicely into "normal"...spanking, bondage and blindfolds tend to be seen as adventurous and titillating by the majority of younger none BDSM folk. Because its so diverse though and because BDSM can be extreme, I don't believe BDSM in its entirety will ever fit into the norms of human sexuality.

If it becomes commonplace to see people in bondage or wearing fetish clothing or even being spanked at a party, will there then be less a need for separate groups or meeting places?


In London that has already happened. Torture Garden (a large fetish club in London) has a capacity of 2000 people. I would say that 70% of those people aren't into fetish but enjoy wearing latex, uniforms and other items of clothing that we would of once considered fetish. That same 70% either like giving, taking, watching or accept that spankings within a club go on and that's fine. Drive through London on a Saturday night and you will see the youngsters wearing latex uniforms queuing up to get inside vanilla clubs.

Whether you see expansion or minimization, how do you feel about it, and why?

I like things the way they are. I think its great that none BDSM/Fetish folk can take what they want from this and incorporate it into their own lifestyles. I love it that spanking and a little light bondage is now seen as "normal" and I feel like I'm on my own here when I say, I celebrate the fact that "Fifty Shades" has brought about an otherwise unspoken sexual need in many thousands of people as well as driving large numbers into what was an otherwise unknown BDSM community. Whilst they may be green behind the ears and whilst we, the old timers may mock and ridicule them and even resent them; "Fifty Shades" has put us on the "normal" map.

Do I want the deeper side of BDSM to become normalized? no, absolutely not and I don't believe it ever can be. There are things we do that some of us want to do only within select groups, knowing those select groups won't scrutinize our choices/kinks. Small groups can be controlled to an extent and so there is a huge element of safety and discretion. I believe we need guidelines like RACK and SSC. If it became wide spread and those small selective groups become an open free for all, I believe BDSM would lose the structure it presently has; it would lose its identity.

Do I want the BDSM community to grow? Absolutely...all communities need new blood if they are going to survive and continue. I believe the darker side of BDSM will continue to be drip fed with new people, whilst the lighter side will become much more the norm in general society. What I don't want but its happening anyway, at least where I'm from is, for the lighter side of BDSM to become a promiscuous free for all. Steve and me have stopped going to the young and vibrant private parties because of the huge change we have seen in the last 5-10 years. I'm not into orgies on mass but more and more we have found that young BDSMers (within their own select groups) are into swinging.

< Message edited by MariaB -- 11/16/2014 1:23:21 AM >

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RE: The Future of the BDSM Community - 11/16/2014 2:50:27 AM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
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From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		Yes.

I believe that eventually, like the other diverse forms of sexuality, that sexual identity, kinks and most of the 100+ paraphilias will lose their stigma and become branches on the tree of normality. I think it will be a long time coming because it will take time and peer pressure to sway organized religions.

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RE: The Future of the BDSM Community - 11/16/2014 3:53:57 AM   
NookieNotes


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Joined: 11/10/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BecomingV

So, acceptance of gay marriage hasn't changed a need or desire for gay bars, gay clubs or gay interest groups. I think the same will remain true for BDSM. The community will still desire meeting places for this special interest group.


Interestingly enough, I have heard from MANY gay people that they need their own places even more, right now. Because homosexuality has become more openly accepted, there is more mixing in "their" clubs, and gay and other alternative lifestyle lovers are more accepted in regular bars, so some of the clientele gets siphoned off, making every bar just that much more mixed.

So, the "culture" is being viewed by some as being watered down while simultaneously being assimilated.

Just an interesting note.

*smiles*

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RE: The Future of the BDSM Community - 11/17/2014 2:21:21 PM   
Charles6682


Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: online 		I was wondering when the "MY Mistress" movie filmed in Australia was going to be hitting movie theaters here in the USA, with the same intense interest as "50 Shades of Gray"? O right, 50 shades is still ok here in Merica because its a male dominating a woman and My Mistress is about a female dominating a male. So, when will that mentality start to change here?

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RE: The Future of the BDSM Community - 11/17/2014 7:20:57 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Actually, if you look at tv Charles, they almost always only show female dominants. Because men hitting women are seen as abusive.

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RE: The Future of the BDSM Community - 11/17/2014 11:05:00 PM   
BecomingV


Posts: 916
Joined: 11/11/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Actually, if you look at tv Charles, they almost always only show female dominants. Because men hitting women are seen as abusive.


Yeah, there were two films with a male submissive who is also masochistic. I think the first one is called, "Fall." A taxi drive lets an actress peg him and he falls in love. I think the sequel is "After the Fall." Both are Indies.

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RE: The Future of the BDSM Community - 11/19/2014 4:25:00 AM   
EmpressElsa


Posts: 37
Joined: 10/12/2014
From: Western Upstate, New York
Status: offline 		I can see that you are having problems understanding what is actually in the DSM. Homosexuality is not labelled as a disorder now in version V and not in IV-revised either.

Psychologists/psychiatrists do recognize healthy BDSM and have since, at least, DSM IV-revised, maybe even before then. A paraphilia is ONLY a disorder (as per the DSM) when it causes victimization to others (pedophilia), causes you personal problems (severe guilt, interfering with everyday life), is uncontrollable, etc. Mental health professionals don't consider you to have a paraphilic disorder if, for example, you like getting spanked, your wife is happy to engage you in it, and it causes no problems in your life or others' lives. You will be told to continue on and keep enjoying life. Thus, healthy BDSM activity has already blended into the spectrum of normal sexuality in terms of the mental health arena.

As for the other points you made, I already see people wearing fetish gear in everyday life. Goth girls wear corsets regularly, for example. As for spanking people at parties, I am not sure why we would see that at a non-sexual party any more than we would see someone blowing another person at that same party. For parties that do include sexual play, you will already see some BDSM taking place (for example at some swingers parties). However, I do not see less of a need for separate groups/meeting places. We tend to congregate with others with a similar goal or attitude. People looking to party bukakke style are not likely interested in a bunch of people looking to lick feet.

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RE: The Future of the BDSM Community - 11/20/2014 9:32:22 AM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EmpressElsa
Psychologists/psychiatrists do recognize healthy BDSM and have since, at least, DSM IV-revised, maybe even before then. A paraphilia is ONLY a disorder (as per the DSM) when it causes victimization to others (pedophilia), causes you personal problems (severe guilt, interfering with everyday life), is uncontrollable, etc. Mental health professionals don't consider you to have a paraphilic disorder if, for example, you like getting spanked, your wife is happy to engage you in it, and it causes no problems in your life or others' lives. You will be told to continue on and keep enjoying life. Thus, healthy BDSM activity has already blended into the spectrum of normal sexuality in terms of the mental health arena.

Yes. Thank you. This was the whole issue I had with the NCSF's campaign to get BDSM out of the DSM. It *should* be in the DSM if it's causing someone serious life problems. Eating is a necessary and enjoyable part of life, but disordered eating is a real thing. Is anyone going to campaign to remove eating disorders from the DSM to de-stigmatize eating?

More generally, I agree with ResidentSadist. Over time, the wide spectrum of human sexuality will be societally accepted.

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RE: The Future of the BDSM Community - 11/20/2014 9:54:18 AM   
littleladybug


Posts: 1082
Joined: 5/30/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BecomingV


If it becomes commonplace to see people in bondage or wearing fetish clothing or even being spanked at a party, will there then be less a need for separate groups or meeting places?


There will always be a "need" for separate groups or meeting places. People are just like that.


quote:

ORIGINAL: BecomingV
Whether you see expansion or minimization, how do you feel about it, and why?



My feeling has always been "the more, the merrier". First off, whether someone got their "education" from 50 Shades or from some all-knowing Master, fact of the matter remains that what *they* choose to do in their relationships has absolutely no bearing on mine. Second, I happen to enjoy hearing different perspectives...so...the more there are, the better for me.



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RE: The Future of the BDSM Community - 11/20/2014 10:28:50 AM   
DominanttMaster


Posts: 3
Joined: 11/20/2014
Status: offline 		I apologize for my stereotypical user name - consider this my one and only apology for it - I do not like too waste my better usernames on here as i still currently do not stay long on here

I do not understand your question or the answers in their entirety
I had a quick look at the home page and was dis-interested

1. Medicine - is big business it requires your cash for them to fill their socks with
a. Take something like CFS, and yes I know some of you are jaked here too with an eclectic mix of lurgies
b. Let us use me as an example i am always happy to do that here, and there. Majority of studies are by head Doctors, and i mean none on the front line
c. They have vested interests in their conclusions and writings and their desire to prescribe head pills in vast quantitites
d. Cash is good it keeps muffins on the kitchen table and the "city/investors tax dodgers pissing their pants
2. BDSM as a whole - its typical user base the most of which is lying cheating men (i have no issue with anyone not lying about it), statistically speaking of course...most = >50%, and tonight i am feeling generous
a Are these folks mentally ill of head?

Your questions and conclusions are invalid

if you would all like to reword your answers and thread


genes and hormones aside - i could argue that for my muffin addiction - they should name that gene muffinium

or specific configuration of atoms (this is who we are) - we are who we are - a spectrum.

the only ones who included homosexuality as a disorder are mad fukers i am straight btw - there reasons for doing so many - typically religious in its origins...it has been normal in the animal kingdom for millions of years

Do more brain damaged loons find their way to the "BDSM lifestyle whatever that means" - that is more difficult for me to answer once you subtract married men looking to stretch cavities as their partner slumbers. I tend to think this more a predator taking advantage of the vulnerable - some people wish this - so it is more complex to answer here.

The Romans liked a good rampaging orgy phallic malarkey and bisexuality - it was normal with them and many other societies..it was deemed not vogue by those, often by those who participated religious more - oft than not, yet deemed it vocally not.

there arise two interesting points
1.. those who knowingly lie
2...those who knowingly do not but err from an acceptable reality


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RE: The Future of the BDSM Community - 11/20/2014 11:13:23 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DominanttMaster

I apologize for my stereotypical user name - consider this my one and only apology for it - I do not like too waste my better usernames on here as i still currently do not stay long on here

I do not understand your question or the answers in their entirety
I had a quick look at the home page and was dis-interested

1. Medicine - is big business it requires your cash for them to fill their socks with
a. Take something like CFS, and yes I know some of you are jaked here too with an eclectic mix of lurgies
b. Let us use me as an example i am always happy to do that here, and there. Majority of studies are by head Doctors, and i mean none on the front line
c. They have vested interests in their conclusions and writings and their desire to prescribe head pills in vast quantitites
d. Cash is good it keeps muffins on the kitchen table and the "city/investors tax dodgers pissing their pants
2. BDSM as a whole - its typical user base the most of which is lying cheating men (i have no issue with anyone not lying about it), statistically speaking of course...most = >50%, and tonight i am feeling generous
a Are these folks mentally ill of head?

Your questions and conclusions are invalid

if you would all like to reword your answers and thread


genes and hormones aside - i could argue that for my muffin addiction - they should name that gene muffinium

or specific configuration of atoms (this is who we are) - we are who we are - a spectrum.

the only ones who included homosexuality as a disorder are mad fukers i am straight btw - there reasons for doing so many - typically religious in its origins...it has been normal in the animal kingdom for millions of years

Do more brain damaged loons find their way to the "BDSM lifestyle whatever that means" - that is more difficult for me to answer once you subtract married men looking to stretch cavities as their partner slumbers. I tend to think this more a predator taking advantage of the vulnerable - some people wish this - so it is more complex to answer here.

The Romans liked a good rampaging orgy phallic malarkey and bisexuality - it was normal with them and many other societies..it was deemed not vogue by those, often by those who participated religious more - oft than not, yet deemed it vocally not.

there arise two interesting points
1.. those who knowingly lie
2...those who knowingly do not but err from an acceptable reality




Wow, I know its incredible but I am presently reading a book that posted this link http://thesiswhisperer.com/2013/02/13/academic-assholes/


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RE: The Future of the BDSM Community - 11/20/2014 7:17:30 PM   
YouName


Posts: 271
Joined: 10/22/2014
Status: offline 		Fantastic post! Been thinking about this for a few weeks now. Can't say I have a good answer yet but kudos for starting the discussion.
It's a fascinating subject! At what point does the taboo become normal or at least acceptable and does it then lose some of its mystique and fancy?

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RE: The Future of the BDSM Community - 11/20/2014 9:18:48 PM   
GoddessManko


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline 		FR, Older people are fine, younger people don't know where to go, what to do or how to do it so I think the internet will be their guiding light and so far it is mostly very commercial and porn driven. Most people like play partners though, not the D/s relationship of Anne Rice and her husband so I think at least on the F/m relationship side that female Dommes will seek submissive vanilla boys they can mold and inherently kinky submissive males will end up paying for their kink fulfillment, Most male subs I know already do this and have no plans to stop, Some in vanilla relations, others blissfully single.
I have been toying with a few ideas for kinkcentric millenials, we'll see if I have the time or care to follow through with those as my cup runneth over both in business and romance. Only but so many hours in the day and all. I wish I had the time to read I used to. Also to the academic assholes link, LOL.
Most academics I know are great people but they are assholes when they need to get things done. Also some people like being coddled, I don't see any of them as the coddling type. Also they are far more cynical than myself but they are thorough, responsible, hardworking and self made. I don't think they deserve harsh judgement for being frustrated in others for being less than competent. As much as my best friend is convinced I should have been the woman he married, I can't see two alphas getting along very well, no matter how large the home, but then there are D/D relationships very commonly on the forum. Switching is a foreign concept to me, unsure how that works. When I have more time I'd love to learn more from a switch about how they can shift gears so easily. I can only speak from my experience which as we know is unique and sometimes far removed. Like with D/D, it just doesn't work in my mind at all for me.
YouName is a switch who seems passionate about his switchiness and I welcome enlightenment about it as I move like a shark, always forward in a pretty solid direction.

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RE: The Future of the BDSM Community - 11/21/2014 7:37:59 AM   
Charles6682


Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: online 		I think the Fetish community will do just fine. With the internet, social media and 24/7 TV, people are being exposed to things that were once considered "taboo". Some of the darker side of BDSM may not ever be truly the "norm" in mainstream society. I don't need to give example's. I think consensual kink will do just fine, as those who hide behind fetish to harm other's will slowly be exposed and have to run even deeper into the ground. As far as Fem-Dommes and Male Subs, well, there's clearly enough so called "male subs" out there. Or those who claim to be subs but that's not my place to define who a sub is or isn't. Fem-Dommes will do fine as they will be able to pick and choose from the many male subs out there. Or if they want to turn the vanilla guy down the street kinky, go for it. I personally wouldn't pay a Domme for business and that's because I never have to to. I have gotten by just fine. Finding a true Lifestyle Domme in real life, well, like anything in life, if I meet Her that's great but I won't spend my whole life "waiting" for that to happen. I get by being to myself and I don't need anyone to uplift me. I won't be anyone's doormat and I won't let anyone harm me. That said, I love who I am as a sub and I wouldn't have it any other way. Beside's, it's who I am, I couldn't ignore this part of me, even if I wanted to.

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RE: The Future of the BDSM Community - 11/21/2014 3:19:13 PM   
Bhruic


Posts: 985
Joined: 4/11/2012
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BecomingV

I'd like to discuss the future of the BDSM community.

...Until recently, sadomasochism was treated exactly the same... as a mental illness. Now, it's not. So, there's a change in the institutionalized, medical community and that change is a step towards acceptance of BDSM as a healthy expression of human sexuality.


I don't think you can look to the DSM for any reliable indicators of social acceptance. The DSM V, i believe, categorizes a person who grieves for longer than 2 months for a dead child as mentally ill. (To be honest, I heard that on a radio news program some time ago, so I might have it wrong.)

quote:


If it becomes commonplace to see people in bondage or wearing fetish clothing or even being spanked at a party, will there then be less a need for separate groups or meeting places?


I doubt you will ever see that be commonplace except, perhaps, purely as fashion. Vanilla sex is as accepted as you can get, but people still don't do it openly in bars or at parties. There is a big difference between acceptance and mainstream.

The biggest change I have seen in my life time is that the internet has allowed kinksters of all stripes to find each other, become aware of what is going on in the scene all over the world, and to realize that they are not alone, and that their passions are OK.

And that has lead to some significant social changes in policy - such as surrounding the legality of sex clubs, etc. - and a growing general awareness of kink, and acceptance of it to a certain degree... at least, few are shocked about it anymore.

But kinksters will always look for places, on-line and in real life, to hang with their peeps and feel comfortable. Just like any other special interest group.

< Message edited by Bhruic -- 11/21/2014 3:31:51 PM >

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RE: The Future of the BDSM Community - 11/21/2014 3:53:53 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic
I don't think you can look to the DSM for any reliable indicators of social acceptance. The DSM V, i believe, categorizes a person who grieves for longer than 2 months for a dead child as mentally ill. (To be honest, I heard that on a radio news program some time ago, so I might have it wrong.)

It gives the *option* to diagnose depression (MDD) after two *weeks*. If you'd like to read an argument for why that's a good thing, you could take a look at this.

http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2013/05/31/how-the-dsm-5-got-grief-bereavement-right/

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

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RE: The Future of the BDSM Community - 11/21/2014 4:15:12 PM   
Bhruic


Posts: 985
Joined: 4/11/2012
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic
I don't think you can look to the DSM for any reliable indicators of social acceptance. The DSM V, i believe, categorizes a person who grieves for longer than 2 months for a dead child as mentally ill. (To be honest, I heard that on a radio news program some time ago, so I might have it wrong.)

It gives the *option* to diagnose depression (MDD) after two *weeks*. If you'd like to read an argument for why that's a good thing, you could take a look at this.

http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2013/05/31/how-the-dsm-5-got-grief-bereavement-right/


That's an important distinction. Thanks for the info. The article was very informative.

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