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RE: The Future of the BDSM Community - 12/5/2014 7:39:23 AM

BecomingV

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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Almost a whole page of posts from V.
And I suspect V will pummel this to death until they hear what they want to hear.

Someone woke up with their panties in a twist! Issues much?

I started this thread and last posted on Nov. 17th. My Mom died earlier this year so this is a time of 1st holidays without her. And, her birthday is Nov. 18th.

I tend to pay attention when I start a thread and hadn't meant to neglect those who replied or posted. I'm catching up now... it's a respectful act.

That's too bad for you that you see a negative where there's a positive. That must really suck!

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RE: The Future of the BDSM Community - 12/5/2014 7:52:46 AM

BecomingV

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Joined: 11/11/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

quote:

ORIGINAL: BecomingV

I'm expecting it to become accepted when a woman says she has to ask her Master/Dom's permission before she can agree to accept an invitation. However, I'm not expecting any quick changes in the acceptance of a man saying he has to ask his Master/Domme's permission before agreeing to accept an invitation because vanilla life puts such strict limits on manhood.

Strictly from a vanilla standpoint, I would have to say that ever since I can remember, it's been socially acceptable for couples to have to run by their social engagements, activities, and jointly coordinated schedules with one another prior to making any changes in plans or making a commitment with outside parties (including family members) which will invariably affect the other partner in some way.

In fact, once you are an item, it is expected and understood that to NOT do so would be a discourtesy, as would expecting one half of a couple to neglect to run something by the other half, even in a perfunctory fashion.

You make interesting points but I was referring to permission, and not to courtesy and consideration and cooperation.

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RE: The Future of the BDSM Community - 12/5/2014 8:28:37 AM

FieryOpal

Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BecomingV

You make interesting points but I was referring to permission, and not to courtesy and consideration and cooperation.

You can bet my dad needed to ask permission of my mom before drafting her into social obligations, having her juggle around our schedules, whether it would be okay for him to be home late for dinner, or reprioritizing previously agreed-upon plans affecting our family.

If my mother had to put her foot down, it stayed there. Many a time we moved to or back to a different country because it was my mother's desire to do so. My dad would have moved heaven and earth to please her, not out of D/s, but because they both showered their love upon one another.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

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RE: The Future of the BDSM Community - 12/5/2014 8:52:53 AM

September72

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FR
Permission and courtesy look the same from the outside. I don't say that I need permission. I say let me talk to him and I will get back to you.
I am torn on bdsm going mainstream. I love things that are deemed wrong so if bdsm were everyday I wonder if I would like it. I don't like it to be watered-down. I also don't want people losing their shit if they find out what I do and calling the police. It is a double edged sword.
(The dsm had stipulated that the acts had to be causing distress. I'm unsure why that is such a boiling point for others)

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RE: The Future of the BDSM Community - 12/5/2014 8:57:07 AM

domincalifornia

Posts: 88
Joined: 6/7/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BecomingV

I'm expecting it to become accepted when a woman says she has to ask her Master/Dom's permission before she can agree to accept an invitation. However, I'm not expecting any quick changes in the acceptance of a man saying he has to ask his Master/Domme's permission before agreeing to accept an invitation because vanilla life puts such strict limits on manhood.

I don't think either will become commonplace.

Fundamentally, I think you have a misperception. I agree that some BDSM activities (like bondage) will become more mainstream and people are becoming more open about talking about them. However, I don't think that means a lot of people want to live a BDSM "lifestyle" or define their relationship first and foremost in BDSM terms.

It's nothing like being gay to me. If a gay couple go to a party and don't admit they are a couple they are denying their essential sense. I don't think the same is true for many people who engage in BDSM. So I think the number of people who even want to say "I need to ask my mistress' permission" in everyday exchanges is so tiny that the even smaller percentage who actually say it will always be noticeable.

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RE: The Future of the BDSM Community - 12/5/2014 9:38:15 AM

BecomingV

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quote:

ORIGINAL: September72

FR
Permission and courtesy look the same from the outside. I don't say that I need permission. I say let me talk to him and I will get back to you.

Only a handful of vanilla women have specifically stated in a social or work situation that they had to get permission from their husbands before making a commitment. Each time, other women who heard that, immediately began questioning the intelligence and maturity of that woman. Stating, with ease, that she was an adult who required permission to act or choose, was met with suspicions that she might be isolated or abused. It was like people went on "high alert" to be sure that she didn't need saving.

I admit I've never spoken with a female submissive who didn't know that I was also in the lifestyle, so that must create a bias for my perspective. The female subs obviously loved the social aspects of openly speaking about their obedience or owned status. Talking with that language (permission) and being accepted while doing so, IS a part of what they love about being submissive.

So, I guess that is who I have in mind when I wonder if stating openly that permission must be granted will become mainstream.

quote:

I am torn on bdsm going mainstream. I love things that are deemed wrong so if bdsm were everyday I wonder if I would like it. I don't like it to be watered-down.

Just in my local scene, it's obvious especially with the younger people, that some are only in the BDSM community because it is edgy, and haven't really learned about themselves yet. I should say... I think that young people should be exploring everything that they can, but there are dangers, so I wouldn't recommend this community as a place to express rebellion.

What could make it "watered down"? I mean, how would acceptance into normalcy change anyone's dynamics?

quote:

I also don't want people losing their shit if they find out what I do and calling the police. It is a double edged sword.

So, do you lean towards one way or the other? Do you prefer things as they are now... legal risks and a remarkable departure from societal norms OR legal consideration for this lifestyle that comes with a less radical judgment of BDSM?

quote:

(The dsm had stipulated that the acts had to be causing distress. I'm unsure why that is such a boiling point for others)

Many kinksters have struggled with having to educate their doctors, lawyer and shrinks (while being billed for the time to teach them!) and that's a best case scenario. Some ended up diagnosed. LOL

Psychiatry and psychology have historically been used to exert social control. Google, "Dorthea Dix" - THE mental health reformer in America and Europe. So, those professions have harmed a lot of people and the distrust lingers in them, or in their loved ones who saw what was done to them.

Adding insult to injury, the DSM is not a scientific or static document. Things which were once called illness are now okay. The whole process that creates the published manual would be a joke if it weren't so damaging and vile. It's a big-Pharma tool for profit and the harm to people is disgusting. I posted earlier in the thread, but here's the link for a "must-see" documentary on how the DSM is created and adapted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgCpa1RlSdQ

Some documentaries are propaganda. This one is not. It's based on professionals/insiders/ and respected sources in the world. Like, WHO - the world health organization, the CDC - the Center for Disease Control, among other such reputable sources.

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RE: The Future of the BDSM Community - 12/5/2014 9:58:09 AM

BecomingV

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quote:

ORIGINAL: domincalifornia

quote:

ORIGINAL: BecomingV

I'm expecting it to become accepted when a woman says she has to ask her Master/Dom's permission before she can agree to accept an invitation. However, I'm not expecting any quick changes in the acceptance of a man saying he has to ask his Master/Domme's permission before agreeing to accept an invitation because vanilla life puts such strict limits on manhood.

I don't think either will become commonplace.

Fundamentally, I think you have a misperception. I agree that some BDSM activities (like bondage) will become more mainstream and people are becoming more open about talking about them. However, I don't think that means a lot of people want to live a BDSM "lifestyle" or define their relationship first and foremost in BDSM terms.

That perception may be R/L vs. online exposure to the lifestyle. Kinksters and S/m tops and bottoms aren't likely to care about "the lifestyle." I don't mean them... because when they go to a club to play, that is the place where they can express themselves freely.

But, to D/s people, if they knew they'd be accepted, they'd very much like to let themselves be freely known.

Please assume I mean "SOME" people.

quote:

It's nothing like being gay to me. If a gay couple go to a party and don't admit they are a couple they are denying their essential sense. I don't think the same is true for many people who engage in BDSM. So I think the number of people who even want to say "I need to ask my mistress' permission" in everyday exchanges is so tiny that the even smaller percentage who actually say it will always be noticeable.

I wasn't equating being gay with being a BDSM participant in terms of experience, although there are plenty of gay BDSM people. :) I was referring to the social evolution from negative judgment and prejudices to acceptance that homosexuality has already journeyed. Will the perception and acceptance of BDSM lifestyle change as vanilla people replace the ignorance with exposure to the facts?

I know a lot of people in our community who would prefer to live out loud, but won't because it may cause problems at work, with the law or with friends and family. Some of those people revel in community events because it's the only place where they can be themselves, freely. I think they feel resentful that they have to hide everywhere else and to them, keeping the secret IS denying their essential sense.

Perhaps I should not say, BDSM... the couples that come to mind are D/s.

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RE: The Future of the BDSM Community - 12/5/2014 10:04:33 AM

BecomingV

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Yes, I recall that you and I both have lived in multiple countries. The ones I lived in varied in terms of male and female social roles. In Ireland, the men almost always defer to the women... it's a matriarchal society. In America, that's flipped. There are exceptions everywhere. Your Dad would be reflective of the status quo in Ireland but would run into problems in America for exhibiting the very same behaviors.

BTW, Ireland had their first female President in the 1980's while American doesn't even have an equal rights amendment yet!

What I'm wondering is if the vanilla women who are male supremacists, will gravitate towards the lifestyle because they won't be seen as backwards here. Same goes for the male supremacists... will they find a place here to not be called male chauvinist pigs, for example?

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RE: The Future of the BDSM Community - 12/5/2014 2:48:46 PM

FieryOpal

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Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BecomingV

Yes, I recall that you and I both have lived in multiple countries. The ones I lived in varied in terms of male and female social roles. In Ireland, the men almost always defer to the women... it's a matriarchal society. In America, that's flipped. There are exceptions everywhere. Your Dad would be reflective of the status quo in Ireland but would run into problems in America for exhibiting the very same behaviors.

BTW, Ireland had their first female President in the 1980's while American doesn't even have an equal rights amendment yet!

What I'm wondering is if the vanilla women who are male supremacists, will gravitate towards the lifestyle because they won't be seen as backwards here. Same goes for the male supremacists... will they find a place here to not be called male chauvinist pigs, for example?

I can't comment on the last part BV, but since I know you are interested in these kinds of (human-interest, sociological) things, let me briefly give you some background. No Irish heritage, but there are remnants of matriarchal rule throughout ancient Briton (Angles, Celts, probably with Saxons and Normans also). It wasn't hard for Mary, Queen of Scots, to drum up support either. My dad's family was originally English, and two sets of ancestors coming over on the Mayflower is about as American as apple pie. His father may have been half Native American. My mother was Korean. Contrary to all of this submissive Asian b.s. on the surface, everything goes by social status (which is also linked to education or mastery) and then age with respecting one's elders. No Asian woman of a higher status will defer to any Asian man of a lower status. My mother's family were landowners and owned their town for all intents and purposes, and during the Japanese occupation, she and her siblings received a high-class Japanese education equivalent to a teaching degree. Assuming authority came naturally to my mom, as it had to her mother, who had married down a class (although my mom hadn't) out of love.

(I guess I could have PM'd you, but I don't have time to fool with that now.

)

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

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