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Why can't I reconcile these things?? - 11/17/2014 9:14:27 AM

smileforme50

Posts: 1623
Joined: 1/24/2013
From: DelaWHERE(?)
Status: offline

As of late, I've been reading a bit of kinky fiction. Right now I'm reading something called "The Reluctant Dom". It's about a man whose best friend informs him that he is terminally ill. This friend then also tells him that since he won't be around much longer, he is looking for someone to take care of his wife after he is gone.......and he wants it to be him. THEN he finds out that this couple is M/s....and what they really want is for him to take over as her Master.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Anyway ..... The particular story isn't important to my question, but it did make me conscious of this issue that I want to ask about. Now..... I'm discovering that I am pretty damned submissive. Toy shock I may even be happy as a slave. I'm discovering that I have very little resistance to a Dominant once I feel I can trust him. I'm finding myself very easily doing things that, if you would have asked me 5 years ago I would have said "FUCK NO!!! ". ~~~~~~

BUT.... I've noticed that when I read about these things....when I read about other women being submissive to men .... When I read about them kneeling and calling them "Sir" or "Master"......and ESPECIALLY when I hear about them doing something......hmmmm.... Maybe not necessarily in " punishment" but maybe in terms of further training or "maintenance"...... I find myself getting irritated.....almost angry. "WTF is she doing and why is she doing it for that jerk? Why doesn't she just tell him to fuck off?!?!?!?!?!!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yet at the same time it's usually something I would probably do if a Dom I liked and trusted wanted me to do. Does this make any damned sense to anybody?????

_____________________________

“Give it to me!” she yelled
“I’m so fucking wet! Give it to me now!”

She could scream all she wanted…..I was keeping the umbrella.

Post #: 1

RE: Why can't I reconcile these things?? - 11/17/2014 9:20:37 AM

ExiledTyrant

Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline

Yes.

Column A: Needs
Column B: Wants
Column C: Likes
Column D: Dislikes
Column E: Screw you creepo, I'm out.

babycakes, you're not required to fit in someone else's mold, you just need the positive/negative casting of your mold and it is out there.

_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

(in reply to smileforme50)

Post #: 2

RE: Why can't I reconcile these things?? - 11/17/2014 9:31:28 AM

smileforme50

Posts: 1623
Joined: 1/24/2013
From: DelaWHERE(?)
Status: offline

But I'm talking about the SAME things. I'm talking about how I am accepting of submitting to something myself.... But then feeling almost a bit angry when a fictional character is told to do the same thing. WTF is that all about??

_____________________________

“Give it to me!” she yelled
“I’m so fucking wet! Give it to me now!”

She could scream all she wanted…..I was keeping the umbrella.

(in reply to ExiledTyrant)

Post #: 3

RE: Why can't I reconcile these things?? - 11/17/2014 9:37:47 AM

ExiledTyrant

Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline

Ya know, I am actually working on a book with some help from my "Allies of All Things Twisted and Evil". It's called "Primal, Reconciling the Beast". It is about accepting who we are and reconciling it with all the sociological paradigms at play, guilt free. I'll dig up your email this eve and send it to you, but it is, probably, exactly what you are experiencing.

_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

(in reply to smileforme50)

Post #: 4

RE: Why can't I reconcile these things?? - 11/17/2014 9:38:10 AM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

Smileforme:)
Its called having an open mind and being able to think out of the box
:)
Ive found with all the reading I do, especially on sexual stoof, that while I couldnt see myself doing some things(as a bottom or a sub or a slave), I can understand why the attraction is there if it were with a certain partner.
I know over the years Ive surprised myself and others when Ive decided that yes, this person I trust beyond all else, and it sounds hot....lets see....pushed my limits and my boundaries because ...ive grown? or gotton more curious.
Some were not so smart, but again Ive learned more about me, AND him:)

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to ExiledTyrant)

Post #: 5

RE: Why can't I reconcile these things?? - 11/17/2014 9:56:02 AM

shiftyw

Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline

I have a rough time with this too.

A lot rougher a few years ago. I always say I did it backwards- I jumped into full on TPE first and now I'm just into bedroom stuff. Obviously- my part of reconciliation was in realizing I was less submissive and way more into kinky dirty sex. Years and years of being a "bad submissive" should have been proof enough- but it just took a while.

I ran into issues there in my mind surrounding my rape. I still do. all the time. On a day where I feel particularly low about it- I really question if I'm here for "the right reasons" or if I'm trying to minimize what happened to me...or if I was like this before and its the reason that happened to me?

I basically decided that, if I like it, and am happiest with it in my life, why am I fighting that urge? Why should I feel bad since I AM consenting to this?
I don't participate in a lot of kinks because it isn't for me, but like Lucy said- understanding how it can be sexy- helps me understand why that exists and happens.

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 6

RE: Why can't I reconcile these things?? - 11/17/2014 11:21:57 AM

Spiritedsub2

Posts: 3316
Joined: 7/18/2012
Status: offline

I've been struggling with this too. Wondering why so much that I read, particularly the more self-abnegating and groveling and syncophantic stuff, pisses me off and makes me wonder if I'm submissive at all. Then I remember my reactions to a couple of specific men formerly in my life. I think it's just hard to relate to the joy and eroticism of submission when you don't have a specific person for whom you are currently feeling it. Or maybe that's just me.

_____________________________

Don’t grieve. Anything you lose comes round in another form.
~ Rumi

Laughing Dolphin

(in reply to smileforme50)

Post #: 7

RE: Why can't I reconcile these things?? - 11/17/2014 11:29:34 AM

sexyred1

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Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline

I agree with you. I find myself rolling my eyes at some things I read in that vein and then think, wait, you were pretty besotted with certain people before, did I sound like that?

And yes, I think that when you have no one person to focus on, it is harder to relate to others who are experiencing an intensity that you just remember.

On the other hand, there is someone on FL a woman I met once, who I ended up not having much in common with. She is a sub and she was alone for awhile. Recently she met a new guy she calls Master. Her journals actually make me angry because after only one month, she is getting branded, shared, turned into a total slave, looking at body mods, saying that she is nothing but an it now, etc.

She was very insecure about her looks and I think this guy sounds abusive.

Yet she is crawling around in seeming bliss.

So when I read that, I know I am just never going to be that kind of submissive as my self worth is not dependent on someone else, as hers is and she admits it.

< Message edited by sexyred1 -- 11/17/2014 11:42:25 AM >

(in reply to Spiritedsub2)

Post #: 8

RE: Why can't I reconcile these things?? - 11/17/2014 11:41:14 AM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

I have a rough time with this too.

A lot rougher a few years ago. I always say I did it backwards- I jumped into full on TPE first and now I'm just into bedroom stuff. Obviously- my part of reconciliation was in realizing I was less submissive and way more into kinky dirty sex. Years and years of being a "bad submissive" should have been proof enough- but it just took a while.

I ran into issues there in my mind surrounding my rape. I still do. all the time. On a day where I feel particularly low about it- I really question if I'm here for "the right reasons" or if I'm trying to minimize what happened to me...or if I was like this before and its the reason that happened to me?

I basically decided that, if I like it, and am happiest with it in my life, why am I fighting that urge? Why should I feel bad since I AM consenting to this?
I don't participate in a lot of kinks because it isn't for me, but like Lucy said- understanding how it can be sexy- helps me understand why that exists and happens.

I can relate...having my throat clawed at, , will send me into a panic of epic proportions and turns me vicious, just thinking about it makes me feeel murderous. I hurt someone the last time it happened, very non consensual, BUT its only over the last few years have I been able to let it into sensual play. Again, depends on the partner, and how big the boundary/limit/squick factor is.
Ive worked thru a lot of the violence Ive been thru , but even now, it can catch me unawares, but fantasy is safe, its people that screw it up:)
While I trust, my pet, and my husband, its something that i have to be in the right"mood" or headspace to discuss, let alone have happen, because when I turn on a dime, im liable to do a damn sight more damage than a bruise. And another reason I never play if anyone is in the slightest bad mood.

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to shiftyw)

Post #: 9

RE: Why can't I reconcile these things?? - 11/17/2014 12:15:49 PM

Gauge

Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: smileforme50

As of late, I've been reading a bit of kinky fiction. Right now I'm reading something called "The Reluctant Dom". It's about a man whose best friend informs him that he is terminally ill. This friend then also tells him that since he won't be around much longer, he is looking for someone to take care of his wife after he is gone.......and he wants it to be him. THEN he finds out that this couple is M/s....and what they really want is for him to take over as her Master.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Anyway ..... The particular story isn't important to my question, but it did make me conscious of this issue that I want to ask about. Now..... I'm discovering that I am pretty damned submissive. Toy shock I may even be happy as a slave. I'm discovering that I have very little resistance to a Dominant once I feel I can trust him. I'm finding myself very easily doing things that, if you would have asked me 5 years ago I would have said "FUCK NO!!! ". ~~~~~~

BUT.... I've noticed that when I read about these things....when I read about other women being submissive to men .... When I read about them kneeling and calling them "Sir" or "Master"......and ESPECIALLY when I hear about them doing something......hmmmm.... Maybe not necessarily in " punishment" but maybe in terms of further training or "maintenance"...... I find myself getting irritated.....almost angry. "WTF is she doing and why is she doing it for that jerk? Why doesn't she just tell him to fuck off?!?!?!?!?!!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yet at the same time it's usually something I would probably do if a Dom I liked and trusted wanted me to do. Does this make any damned sense to anybody?????

The mystical word you are looking for is connection.

You have no connection to the dominant in the book, or the submissive for that matter, and therefore it annoys you.

Your conflict is interesting because it says a great deal about what it is you want and need in your own personal life. In a broad sense, it is helping you define who you are seeking.

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to smileforme50)

Post #: 10

RE: Why can't I reconcile these things?? - 11/17/2014 2:58:15 PM

smileforme50

Posts: 1623
Joined: 1/24/2013
From: DelaWHERE(?)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

quote:

ORIGINAL: smileforme50

As of late, I've been reading a bit of kinky fiction. Right now I'm reading something called "The Reluctant Dom". It's about a man whose best friend informs him that he is terminally ill. This friend then also tells him that since he won't be around much longer, he is looking for someone to take care of his wife after he is gone.......and he wants it to be him. THEN he finds out that this couple is M/s....and what they really want is for him to take over as her Master.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Anyway ..... The particular story isn't important to my question, but it did make me conscious of this issue that I want to ask about. Now..... I'm discovering that I am pretty damned submissive. Toy shock I may even be happy as a slave. I'm discovering that I have very little resistance to a Dominant once I feel I can trust him. I'm finding myself very easily doing things that, if you would have asked me 5 years ago I would have said "FUCK NO!!! ". ~~~~~~

BUT.... I've noticed that when I read about these things....when I read about other women being submissive to men .... When I read about them kneeling and calling them "Sir" or "Master"......and ESPECIALLY when I hear about them doing something......hmmmm.... Maybe not necessarily in " punishment" but maybe in terms of further training or "maintenance"...... I find myself getting irritated.....almost angry. "WTF is she doing and why is she doing it for that jerk? Why doesn't she just tell him to fuck off?!?!?!?!?!!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yet at the same time it's usually something I would probably do if a Dom I liked and trusted wanted me to do. Does this make any damned sense to anybody?????

The mystical word you are looking for is connection.

You have no connection to the dominant in the book, or the submissive for that matter, and therefore it annoys you.

Your conflict is interesting because it says a great deal about what it is you want and need in your own personal life. In a broad sense, it is helping you define who you are seeking.

"Your conflict is interesting because it says a great deal about what it is you want and need in your own personal life. In a broad sense, it is helping you define who you are seeking."

It does? What does it say? I don't understand.

_____________________________

“Give it to me!” she yelled
“I’m so fucking wet! Give it to me now!”

She could scream all she wanted…..I was keeping the umbrella.

(in reply to Gauge)

Post #: 11

RE: Why can't I reconcile these things?? - 11/17/2014 3:39:13 PM

Gauge

Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: smileforme50

"Your conflict is interesting because it says a great deal about what it is you want and need in your own personal life. In a broad sense, it is helping you define who you are seeking."

It does? What does it say? I don't understand.

You are not so much annoyed at what the dominant is telling the submissive as you are that you do not have a connection. The things being suggested are things you would be open to with the right person, which is good information for you... since... if I recall... you are kind of new to all of this.

What this tells me is that you could not submit to just anyone... which is true of most people I would think, but your connection to that person must be felt deeply before you will open yourself up. It kind of shows me that you will not engage in casual play and that you want and need a strong relationship first before you delve into that aspect of your relationship.

I may be wrong.

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to smileforme50)

Post #: 12

RE: Why can't I reconcile these things?? - 11/17/2014 4:00:57 PM

smileforme50

Posts: 1623
Joined: 1/24/2013
From: DelaWHERE(?)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

quote:

ORIGINAL: smileforme50

"Your conflict is interesting because it says a great deal about what it is you want and need in your own personal life. In a broad sense, it is helping you define who you are seeking."

It does? What does it say? I don't understand.

You are not so much annoyed at what the dominant is telling the submissive as you are that you do not have a connection. The things being suggested are things you would be open to with the right person, which is good information for you... since... if I recall... you are kind of new to all of this.

What this tells me is that you could not submit to just anyone... which is true of most people I would think, but your connection to that person must be felt deeply before you will open yourself up. It kind of shows me that you will not engage in casual play and that you want and need a strong relationship first before you delve into that aspect of your relationship.

I may be wrong.

You are right in some sense. But I will clarify some things....

I'm not sure what you mean by "annoyed that you don't have a connection". Connection to the Dom in the book?
Personally...right now I am working on a connection with someone who is far away....but I am also developing a very nice connection with a couple I a "training" with. Even in the short time I have known them I feel a great trust for them already and I have submitted to them ...up to a point. Things are slowly progressing quite nicely.

also....

I have done casual play. Not "casual" to the point where it was with someone I JUST met in a public dungeon space. But casual in the sense that I never saw any of those men as my Dom or Master. They are friends and play partners...never strangers, but not my Master or Sir either.

_____________________________

“Give it to me!” she yelled
“I’m so fucking wet! Give it to me now!”

She could scream all she wanted…..I was keeping the umbrella.

(in reply to Gauge)

Post #: 13

RE: Why can't I reconcile these things?? - 11/17/2014 4:05:33 PM

Gauge

Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: smileforme50

You are right in some sense. But I will clarify some things....

I'm not sure what you mean by "annoyed that you don't have a connection". Connection to the Dom in the book?
Personally...right now I am working on a connection with someone who is far away....but I am also developing a very nice connection with a couple I a "training" with. Even in the short time I have known them I feel a great trust for them already and I have submitted to them ...up to a point. Things are slowly progressing quite nicely.

also....

I have done casual play. Not "casual" to the point where it was with someone I JUST met in a public dungeon space. But casual in the sense that I never saw any of those men as my Dom or Master. They are friends and play partners...never strangers, but not my Master or Sir either.

Yes, connection to the dom in the book.

I was guessing for the most part.

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to smileforme50)

Post #: 14

RE: Why can't I reconcile these things?? - 11/17/2014 4:52:05 PM

FieryOpal

Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline

I find this interesting. The only way I can understand submission and still feel respect for a man (assuming it isn't lust-driven or motivated by sheer lust) is by seeing him in a romantic light. Without that romantically intimate connection, my desire to Dominate would strike me as being ego-motivated. I see that as a weakness, for a person to be ruled by their ego needs, because then their ego is the captain of the ship and they become slaves to their egos.

For a man to make a fool of himself in the name of infatuation or love is appealing to me. Let me put it another way. If a man is not willing to put his ego aside and make a fool of himself in order to win my love, then he isn't worthy of me. When you're truly in love, you don't care what other people think. They don't matter. The only person who matters is the love of your life.

Maybe that's the missing element, that you see these acts of submission as being given to a Master who is not worthy of receiving them? In your own D/s relationship dynamic, though, this wouldn't (or shouldn't) be an issue, so not the same resistance, perhaps?

As much as I don't feel compelled to give of myself to be just anybody's Mistress, neither should a submissive give of herself or himself wholeheartedly to an undeserving Dominant.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to smileforme50)

Post #: 15

RE: Why can't I reconcile these things?? - 11/17/2014 7:28:32 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

I don't know how the woman was represented. I find that for myself, if the fem sub isn't obviously happy, then I find it repellent. Same with watching porn, if the actress isn't smiling, I recoil from it.

Do you see her as a person and if so, does she come across as actively involved, not just having this thrust onto her?

Because consent may be very important to you and if it isn't being portrayed as her happily consenting, that could be your disconnect.

And tbh, I've never read a single book of M/f d/s that I liked. They are never portrayed as people who like each other, who respect each other, etc. And why would any intelligent woman want to submit to a man who did not enjoy her company for more than her skills at cock sucking?

< Message edited by DesFIP -- 11/17/2014 7:46:47 PM >

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to FieryOpal)

Post #: 16

RE: Why can't I reconcile these things?? - 11/17/2014 7:40:02 PM

shiftyw

Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 17

RE: Why can't I reconcile these things?? - 11/17/2014 8:18:30 PM

smileforme50

Posts: 1623
Joined: 1/24/2013
From: DelaWHERE(?)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I don't know how the woman was represented. I find that for myself, if the fem sub isn't obviously happy, then I find it repellent. Same with watching porn, if the actress isn't smiling, I recoil from it.

Do you see her as a person and if so, does she come across as actively involved, not just having this thrust onto her?

Because consent may be very important to you and if it isn't being portrayed as her happily consenting, that could be your disconnect.

And tbh, I've never read a single book of M/f d/s that I liked. They are never portrayed as people who like each other, who respect each other, etc. And why would any intelligent woman want to submit to a man who did not enjoy her company for more than her skills at cock sucking?

You may definitely be on to something here.....

In "The Reluctant Dom" the wife seems very happy that she has this type of relationship with her husband....and she is also very glad to have this other man taking over because apparently she has been in love with him for a long time.

While the idea of this other man coming in doesn't seem like it's being thrust upon her without her say (because she is so attracted to him) I do think she is being portrayed as a bit helpless. Apparently her husband says he wasn't even into D/s until after he got involved with her and he only discovered it as a way to help her with her emotional issues. If she starts to feel too stressed she will try to hurt herself, and he discovered that rope bondage and various forms of impact play are what she needs to get her these difficult times. So he also tells his friend that if she doesn't have a caring and responsible Dominant in her life to "take care of her" then she will either hurt herself because she is self destructive....or she will go out and find the first guy she can to do the things to her that her husband has been doing....but she won't be as careful about her selection and will find someone who will seriously hurt her.

_____________________________

“Give it to me!” she yelled
“I’m so fucking wet! Give it to me now!”

She could scream all she wanted…..I was keeping the umbrella.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 18

RE: Why can't I reconcile these things?? - 11/17/2014 8:20:17 PM

shiftyw

Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline

See to me, that "BDSM Therapy" stuff is a crock of shit and would make me not care about the characters, cause I don't relate.

(in reply to smileforme50)

Post #: 19

RE: Why can't I reconcile these things?? - 11/18/2014 3:23:53 AM

smileforme50

Posts: 1623
Joined: 1/24/2013
From: DelaWHERE(?)
Status: offline

shifty....I think that might exactly be my thing....certainly with this story.....as well.

I'm going to have to see what I find in other stories and how I feel about it

_____________________________

“Give it to me!” she yelled
“I’m so fucking wet! Give it to me now!”

She could scream all she wanted…..I was keeping the umbrella.

(in reply to shiftyw)

Post #: 20

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