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RE: are you submissive because of abuse? - 7/13/2006 12:10:54 AM

SusanofO

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Joined: 12/19/2005
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Good point, julia (and thanks for the stats)! Maybe there should be a lot more submissives than Dominants, if abuse is the guiding factor into this realm of activity or life. I'd bet my bottom dollar some grad student somewher is studying this as we speak.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 21

RE: are you submissive because of abuse? - 7/13/2006 12:22:32 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: enigmabrat

You cant lump the two togther!!!!!

Im not the one that was lumping things to start with, it seems that people want to find a correlation between submission and child abuse... I am being tongue and cheek in my above post. For me they have no correlation.... they may to others, but not to me.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to enigmabrat)

Post #: 22

RE: are you submissive because of abuse? - 7/13/2006 12:49:51 AM

Mavis

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Joined: 2/8/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

2) I really did love my mother -

Susan, i know what you mean. my mother was also pretty much that way, but i don't think she messed me up. i don't think i am messed up. i'm just a chick who happens to be a submissive rather than neutral.

Reminds me of the worst line momma is remembered for. When i was a teen, i had a boyfriend she considered beneath me, as he wasn't good looking enough. "but mom, he's wonderful to me, he's so nice..."

She actually said, "Oh course he's nice! Homely people are always nice, what else DO they have to offer?"

LOL. i balance that with her fair point, "Marry for good sex. you can get mental stimulation in the workplace."

<giggles>

Back to the thread though, i think it's accurate that in any group of women, you will find 25% with a history of sexual abuse. Maybe submissives are just more able to admit and discuss this then nilla women, who are abused at the exact same rate. It only appears we're a lump of wiggling victims. Which is pretty far from the truth if you look at the overall strength and mental health of balanced submissive women.

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 23

RE: are you submissive because of abuse? - 7/13/2006 12:58:27 AM

SusanofO

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Joined: 12/19/2005
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Yes, there seem to be more than a few of those kinds of mothers out there...she wasn't all bad, and I do miss her. I don't think she made me a submissive, but I really can't say for sure. Maybe she contributed, maybe not. I've had these kinds of feelings and fantasies since I was about 10 years old. I have no idea why, really.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/13/2006 12:59:30 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Mavis)

Post #: 24

RE: are you submissive because of abuse? - 7/13/2006 2:54:58 AM

cuddleheart50

Posts: 9718
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From: Kentucky
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I was never abused, never.

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Sing like no one is listening.
Love like you've never been hurt
and live like it's heaven on Earth.

(in reply to enigmabrat)

Post #: 25

RE: are you submissive because of abuse? - 7/13/2006 3:05:37 AM

incognitobynight

Posts: 61
Joined: 6/12/2006
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I was not abused as a child. But I was shy and people pleasing from a very early age.

(in reply to enigmabrat)

Post #: 26

RE: are you submissive because of abuse? - 7/13/2006 3:16:25 AM

srllile7

Posts: 75
Joined: 3/30/2006
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Definitely not abused here. If anything it was the opposite, lol a lack of abuse. I was a good kid pretty much left alone because I had good grades, didn’t fight etc…. etc…. etc…. and if I pushed a little bit then I usually got away with it as long as everything else was in line. Always kind and yes viewed weak by some, and always submissive and people pleasing. This is why I never needed any correcting or much guidance from my parents I knew what they wanted from me so I did exactly what they wanted.

But I believe that my intrest in D/s has more to do with someone taking control of me where before no one really has. I’ve just been left to my own good judgment and rule and well now I crave a little Dominance and maybe a little correction *wink wink* . Also on that note now that I’m older and have little left to do to please my parent other then leading a productive life I’m looking for somewhere to turn my submission if you will.

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I am young and idealistic if you do not agree with what I have to say; wait till tomorrow I may just have changed my stance on things by then.

(in reply to incognitobynight)

Post #: 27

RE: are you submissive because of abuse? - 7/13/2006 6:13:39 AM

SusanofO

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It just dawned on me in a really big way that this is probably one of those questions there is very likely no definitive answer to - as long as different people keep answering, which they will, since this is what this forum is for We're basically screwed then, as far as getting a definite "yes" or "no", right? But it is fun to hear people's opinions, I think, and why they have them.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to enigmabrat)

Post #: 28

RE: are you submissive because of abuse? - 7/13/2006 7:32:40 AM

PiggyPuta

Posts: 38
Joined: 5/11/2006
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i was sexually abused as a child and preteen, but would not say that i am submissive because of it, far from it. for me the D/s relationshiop is not about sex (granted i love sex). for me its all about the mind.

(in reply to wildlyincomplete)

Post #: 29

RE: are you submissive because of abuse? - 7/13/2006 8:10:37 AM

BeingChewsie

Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
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No, I believe I was born with this bent. I believed it was fortified by how I was raised. I have a very protective, strong, father. I was always safe and secure and daddy took care of everything. I seek men just like my dad. I have been blessed to be owned by one for several years. I was never abused as a child.

I don't think the motivations really matter, if they find a compatible partner that quiets that need in them. Some horses run better in a harness...some people are no different.

quote:

ORIGINAL: wildlyincomplete

I was reading through the BBW topic and sexual abuse was mentioned a couple times. I am curious to know other's opinions on individuals being submissive because of some kind of abuse rather than being born submissive or choosing to behave in a submissive manor.
Thanks
~beth/wildly_incomplete~

(in reply to wildlyincomplete)

Post #: 30

RE: are you submissive because of abuse? - 7/13/2006 9:04:47 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wildlyincomplete

I was reading through the BBW topic and sexual abuse was mentioned a couple times. I am curious to know other's opinions on individuals being submissive because of some kind of abuse rather than being born submissive or choosing to behave in a submissive manor.
Thanks
~beth/wildly_incomplete~

I had a friend in NYC whose therapist happened upon THE ANSWER one day and shared it with her. She was submissive because she was abused.

My friend told her about me and that shot her therapist's theory down hard especially once she met me.

I think that how we believe, how we feel, and the choices we make are a product of both nature and nurture (or lack of it). I think our sexuality, our personality, and our behavior is also a function of these.

I like to think of it this way. I didn't learn how to be dominant from my abusive family; I learned how not to be abusive from them and I was able to do that based on my innate personality and inner strength (and the Divine's love). Perhaps if I had not been abused I'd just be vanilla and very egalitarian. I don't know but this is the way I am now so all I can do is try to be the best TammyJo I can be in all of my roles.

< Message edited by thetammyjo -- 7/13/2006 9:07:56 AM >

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Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to wildlyincomplete)

Post #: 31

RE: are you submissive because of abuse? - 7/13/2006 10:37:56 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wildlyincomplete
...I am curious to know other's opinions on individuals being submissive because of some kind of abuse rather than being born submissive or choosing to behave in a submissive manor...

slinging the abuse word around is highly subjective and oftentimes leads to legal prosecution and psychotherapist intervention, two things that this slave has little use for. this slave does not think she serves because she was abused...rather, in spite of any abuse "others" judge this slave to have been a part of.

this slave was sucessfully brought to term with the aid of pharmeceuticals that are now believed to be dangerous to the proper development of the fetus and therefore are NOT prescribed or recommended. Today, it would be considered "abusive" for a woman to ingest anything that would be harmful to the fetus. this slave could blame and sue the pharmeceutical companies, the doctors, her own mother, and WIN, as countless others have done Should this slave choose to make the connection that as an abused fetus she was therefore entitled to legal prosecution of the abusers, psychotherapy for the "emotional issues" that being on a lifelong hormone rollercoaster brings and credit this slave's drive to serve as an inborn trait? Or is this slave feeling really lucky to still be here at almost 40, unlike many of the others who have already died, and blessed to have been given a chance to experience life? thankful the doctors said at 19, "have em now or dont have em at all" and this slave had the chance to be a mother. this slave is thankful for the blessing of being here, the blessing of serving a wonderful man who accepts her service. to say it is all thanks to abuse puts a negative spin on it, for this slave.

this slave was trained to behave and submit to the authority of the parent in a manner that in the 60's, was just starting to get frowns from society, if it was even discussed as a social issue. Today, it would be considered "abusive" , the parents would be prosecuted, the child removed from the home, wallowing in psychotherapy and the foster care system. Should this slave make the connection that as an abused child she was therefore abused into being a submissive masochist in her formative years? that the obedient masochist slave that brings Master so much pleasure is a result of "abusive" programming from childhood? another negative spin this slave chooses not to put on it.

this slave doesn't have a need to assess blame, as she is not preparing a lawsuit or planning a psychotherapy visit. we choose how to perceive things...it simply IS, and that is good enough for this slave to accept, embrace and be positive about.

(in reply to wildlyincomplete)

Post #: 32

RE: are you submissive because of abuse? - 7/13/2006 11:07:43 AM

SpankMuhButt

Posts: 1416
Joined: 1/4/2006
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I was never abused, not physically or mentally or sexually
i think i got spanked twice in my life as a kid.

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If you had one shot, one opportunity, To seize everything you ever wanted, One moment, Would you capture it or just let it slip?

gina

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 33

RE: are you submissive because of abuse? - 7/13/2006 11:27:39 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
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If abuse makes for interesting people as someone suggested.....then I must be a total bore. I had a wonderful childhood.

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Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to wildlyincomplete)

Post #: 34

RE: are you submissive because of abuse? - 7/13/2006 1:58:44 PM

popeye1250

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Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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Susan, I have a cousin who had a very similar upbringing as yours.
Yes, it is "perfectionism."
Impossibly high standards that very few could or would want to meet.
She's now a doctor (M.D.) and divorced twice. She "had" to be a doctor like her father.
She had two half brothers (adopted) who the mother drove from the house basically.
One of them was given $50k and told to "dissapear."
This woman also abused me (emotionally, physically) when I was 15 years old as I lived with them for a year due to my parents getting divorced-long story.
My cousin "Mary" was always "In the top of her class" "Won blue ribbons for horse riding" and "I know she can do so much better!"
Better than what? She was always at the top of everything!
I think people who demand perfection of themselves or others are just insecure people.
There's an English show on Public tv called "Keeping up Appearances" that kind of reminds me of my aunt only they leave the mean abusive streak out of that "Hyacinth" character.

Funny, her younger sister went on to become a Calif. Highway Patrol Officer!

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 35

RE: are you submissive because of abuse? - 7/13/2006 2:11:40 PM

SusanofO

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Joined: 12/19/2005
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Thanks, popeye. My mother had many good points, but I do think she was insecure in many ways. My dad just sort of ignored it, when he was home, right or wrong (I think since the kids were all girls in my family, he left raising us mostly up to my mom, although he was a great dad; I had a really good dad, I am so lucky that way).

Compared to 95% of the people I've read or heard about who really were horribly physically and/or sexually, I had a great childhood, so I can't really complain. But some of the remnants of that upbringing stick with me to this day, which I try to be aware of, and am working to rid myself of (I still can't go on many diets without "overdoing it", for example), and I attribute some of my OCD to my upbringing, although I can't be sure that's the reason I have it, it tend to view it as a contributing factor, as at my house, there was a "right" way to do just about everything, it seemed.

My little sister completely gave up (or maybe it was some sort of revenge) and weighs 220 pounds - I do think that is partly my mother's doing. She is one of the nicest people I know, too, but my mom used to humiliate her about her weight something awful. Anyway, life goes on. I've had a better life than many people I know.

My sister just blew it off and went out and bought a t-shirt that says:

"I put the FUN in DYSFUNCTIONAL!"

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/13/2006 2:19:32 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 36

RE: are you submissive because of abuse? - 7/13/2006 3:02:33 PM

enthralled

Posts: 249
Joined: 9/13/2005
From: Nashville, Tn
Status: offline

Submissive because of abuse? .... not at all. Masochistic- maybe.
A therapist once tried to tell me that my 'preference for pain' was a result of 'physical conditioning' because during that particular developemental phase of my childhood, this was how my body was 'conditioned' to react....... blah, blah, and blah.
I agree with SusanofO that this may be one of those questions that really has no definate answer. To me, it would actually make more sense for a person to be dominant rather than submissive as a result of abuse .
In the end, the only thing that's 'wrong' with us is that we 'think' something's wrong.
I don't question it anymore, this is who I am and I like me ......I'm not worried about why or what made me who I am

~enthralled

_____________________________

A man never discloses his own character so clearly as when he describes another's.-Jean Paul Richter

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 37

RE: are you submissive because of abuse? - 7/13/2006 3:13:59 PM

wildlyincomplete

Posts: 5
Joined: 4/13/2005
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To answer my own question:
I have been asked by several people throughout the years if I am submissive because I was sexually and emotionally abused as a child. The first time I was asked I did ponder the thought for some time. However, I do not believe that to be the case. I've been asked quite often "how long have you been submissive." My answer to that is, "I was born that way."
I won't delve deeply into my adult relationships but I did realize about 5 years ago that I was attracted to the "bad boy" types because many tend to exude "dominance", which in reality {in my case}, was really the negative aspects of power and control than a healthy case of power exchange, D/s, M/s, etc.
As for being a BBW because I was abused; despite genetics, I believe it did have a lot to do with it. A long time ago I wrote a poem and part of it is, "I've fixed it now, no man will ever want me, I've taken away what used to pretty." Unfortunately, at 33, I still struggle terribly with my weight and the emotional discourse that comes from it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: wildlyincomplete

I was reading through the BBW topic and sexual abuse was mentioned a couple times. I am curious to know other's opinions on individuals being submissive because of some kind of abuse rather than being born submissive or choosing to behave in a submissive manor.
Thanks
~beth/wildly_incomplete~

(in reply to wildlyincomplete)

Post #: 38

RE: are you submissive because of abuse? - 7/13/2006 4:12:09 PM

ClassAct2006

Posts: 318
Joined: 4/12/2006
Status: offline

Not at all. I was just starting when I first remember feeling submissive. There was nothing before that to explain it. It's just a lovely part of how I was made, part of God's rich pattern or whatever. It's a shame when BDSM is presented in public so often as being something which will always be a result of early abuse.

(in reply to wildlyincomplete)

Post #: 39

RE: are you submissive because of abuse? - 7/13/2006 5:29:06 PM

shyfem

Posts: 101
Joined: 2/16/2006
Status: offline

Good Evening all,

I came from a loving middle class family, I was neither abused nor mistreated. My father was a little overbearing but basically a good man. To this day I have a good relationship with both mother and father.

As for my submissiveness? I tend to think I was born that way. I have always been a people pleaser. When I discovered D/s late last year I realized very quickly what I was. From that point on being submissive has come very natural to me.

*Sidenote to Merc & Beth....you mentioned in your post that your mother took pills that were prescribed to her while you were in utero....this struck a cord with me because my own mother did as well. I am interested if you know what your mom took.

~shy
-------------------------------------------------
May all who tread here find what they seek!

(in reply to ClassAct2006)

Post #: 40

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