quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini


Life may soon become a lot harder for those scrambling for lower wage positions.

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ORIGINAL: DaNewAgeViking

Whatever.
[sm=binky.gif]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

President Obama is scheduled to outline a plan to relax the United States immigration plan on Thursday, tomorrow.
The plan is to grant relief to an estimated "5 million" undocumented immigrants.

Any thoughts on how this is going to improve our economy and make this country greater?

According to this interesting article from NPR, the effects are positive and negative.
It appears that this will negatively effect US born hispanic and black workers, because a much larger share of minorities are in direct competition with immigrants.

NPR=Q & A Illegal Immigrants and the US economy

Life may soon become a lot harder for those scrambling for lower wage positions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

I agree that life will become harder, although it won't necessarily be because of more immigrants, legal or otherwise.

Hummmm, I am not sure I totally agree with you on this one, for every action there is a reaction.
You know this will have an effect on the US.
Positive/and or negative there will be an effect.

My whole issue with the way immigration is approached by both parties is that no one seems interested in exploring the source of the problem at hand. They present the issue and our national choices as if these immigrants just popped in out of nowhere. It's treated purely as some kind of domestic issue and not an international issue. We've already tied ourselves and linked the well-being of our own economy to the economies of other nations, so it's not just a matter of the US economy either. When considering the ramifications of a global economy, it can mean billions of people scrambling for lower wage positions. Something's gonna give sooner or later.

GREAT POST!

Ultimately, I think our best bet at this point is to cultivate and develop much stronger ties and relations with our neighbors to the south. Any investments we make in their economies and infrastructure to help improve their quality of life will likely help to curb the problem by reducing the incentives for people to come here illegally.

We also should restore our Good Neighbor policy and generate goodwill among the nations in our hemisphere, and this might mean making some allowances for their citizens who happen to be within our borders. The abuses and exploitation would also have to come to an end, although this would displease those who have profited from illegal immigration all these decades. This is another major source of the problem at hand, yet the powers that be would rather play up the issue in such a way as to pit different factions of low-wage workers against each other, not just from within the United States, but from other countries too.

[sm=agree.gif]

I think that if all the nations of the Western Hemisphere could forge a strong, unified alliance and economic bloc, we wouldn't really have to worry about China or Russia or any of the Middle Eastern factions which might be regarded as threats by some. Even if there might be difficulties in the short run, I think it may be our best choice in the long run, considering the overall global situation we're facing and will continue to face in the foreseeable future.

Of course, the current policymakers seem to benefit more from the status quo. They're making money off the situation, so they obviously have no intention of kicking the undocumented immigrants out of the country. (Few people would support any kind of mass deportation anyway, and it would likely lead to riots or worse, not to mention the international ramifications.) They also won't go after the employers who hire them, not much other than a few token raids for public consumption. So, both parties seem pretty much in with the idea of letting them stay, but now they're just arguing over the legalities over what their status should actually be. If they're made legal, then they would have the same rights as US workers, which would mean their employers would have to pay minimum wage and follow the same labor laws, OSHA regulations, etc.

The way I see it, the undocumented immigrants were here yesterday, they're here today, and they're going to be here tomorrow. Whatever wrangling and paper shuffling they do in Washington DC isn't going to change the situation as it stands.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


A legitimate debate and the required congressional legislation is too much to expect from this president

[img]http://www.sondrakistan.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/progs-obama_emperor.jpg[/img]

quote:

ORIGINAL: CentralFLDomCPL

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


A legitimate debate and the required congressional legislation is too much to expect from this president

[img]http://www.sondrakistan.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/progs-obama_emperor.jpg[/img]

We're never active on these fora, but this one is just too good to pass up.

Obama, by acting within his constitutional (LEGAL) authority is an emperor, eh? Please name the last two presidents before him who acted by executive mandate to reform immigration and help undocumented aliens already in the US.

They were...Reagan and G.H.W. Bush (Bush Sr.). Gee...REPUBLICANS??? Who would have thought? :D

Also, Obama's number of executive mandates per term is the lowest since Grover Cleveland.

So, please get your facts straight, before repeating what Fox News has brainwashed you into thinking is true.




Thank you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CentralFLDomCPL

Obama, by acting within his constitutional (LEGAL) authority is an emperor, eh? Please name the last two presidents before him who acted by executive mandate to reform immigration and help undocumented aliens already in the US.

They were...Reagan and G.H.W. Bush (Bush Sr.). Gee...REPUBLICANS???

quote:

With respect to the notion that I can just suspend deportations through executive order, that’s just not the case, because there are laws on the books that Congress has passed — and I know that everybody here at Bell is studying hard so you know that we’ve got three branches of government. Congress passes the law. The executive branch’s job is to enforce and implement those laws. And then the judiciary has to interpret the laws.

There are enough laws on the books by Congress that are very clear in terms of how we have to enforce our immigration system that for me to simply through executive order ignore those congressional mandates would not conform with my appropriate role as President...

...The problem is that you know I’m the president of the United States. I’m not the emperor of the United States. My job is to execute laws that are passed, and Congress right now has not changed what I consider to be a broken immigration system.

And what that means is that we have certain obligations to enforce the laws that are in place

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2014/11/18/obamas-flip-flop-on-using-executive-action-on-illegal-immigration/

quote:

ORIGINAL: CentralFLDomCPL
Obama, by acting within his constitutional (LEGAL) authority is an emperor, eh? Please name the last two presidents before him who acted by executive mandate to reform immigration and help undocumented aliens already in the US.
They were...Reagan and G.H.W. Bush (Bush Sr.). Gee...REPUBLICANS??? Who would have thought? :D
Also, Obama's number of executive mandates per term is the lowest since Grover Cleveland.
So, please get your facts straight, before repeating what Fox News has brainwashed you into thinking is true.
Thank you.

quote:

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and laws of the United States of America, including Section 1440 of Title 8, United States Code, and in order to provide expedited naturalization for aliens and non-citizens who served in the Armed Forces in the Grenada campaign, it is hereby ordered as follows:

For the purpose of determining qualification for the exceptions from the usual requirements for naturalization, the period of Grenada military operations in which the Armed Forces of the United States were engaged in armed conflict with a hostile foreign force commenced on October 25, 1983, and terminated on November 2, 1983. Those persons serving honorably in active-duty status in the Armed Forces of the United States during this period, in the Grenada campaign, are eligible for naturalization in accordance with the statutory exceptions to the naturalization requirements, as provided in Section 1440(b) of Title 8, United States Code. Qualifying active-duty service includes service conducted, during this period, on the islands of Grenada, Carriacou, Green Hog, and those islands adjacent to Grenada in the Atlantic Seaboard where such service was in direct support of the military operations in Grenada. Qualifying active-duty service during this period also includes service conducted in the air space above Grenada, in the adjacent seas where operations were conducted, and at the Grantly Adams International Airport in Barbados.


RONALD REAGAN
The White House,
February 2, 1987.

quote:

(a) Requirements
Any person who, while an alien or a noncitizen national of the United States, has served honorably as a member of the Selected Reserve of the Ready Reserve or in an active-duty status in the military, air, or naval forces of the United States during either World War I or during a period beginning September 1, 1939, and ending December 31, 1946, or during a period beginning June 25, 1950, and ending July 1, 1955, or during a period beginning February 28, 1961, and ending on a date designated by the President by Executive order as of the date of termination of the Vietnam hostilities, or thereafter during any other period which the President by Executive order shall designate as a period in which Armed Forces of the United States are or were engaged in military operations involving armed conflict with a hostile foreign force, and who, if separated from such service, was separated under honorable conditions, may be naturalized as provided in this section if

• (1) at the time of enlistment, reenlistment, extension of enlistment, or induction such person shall have been in the United States, the Canal Zone, American Samoa, or Swains Island, or on board a public vessel owned or operated by the United States for noncommercial service, whether or not he has been lawfully admitted to the United States for permanent residence, or
  
• (2) at any time subsequent to enlistment or induction such person shall have been lawfully admitted to the United States for permanent residence. The executive department under which such person served shall determine whether persons have served honorably in an active-duty status, and whether separation from such service was under honorable conditions: Provided, however, That no person who is or has been separated from such service on account of alienage, or who was a conscientious objector who performed no military, air, or naval duty whatever or refused to wear the uniform, shall be regarded as having served honorably or having been separated under honorable conditions for the purposes of this section. No period of service in the Armed Forces shall be made the basis of an application for naturalization under this section if the applicant has previously been naturalized on the basis of the same period of service.

quote:

—1990. In February, President George H.W. Bush, acting through the Immigration and Naturalization Service, established a "family fairness" in which family members living with a legalizing immigrant and who were in the U.S. before passage of the 1986 law were granted protection from deportation and authorized to seek employment. The administration estimated up to 1.5 million people would be covered by the policy. Congress in October passed a broader immigration law that made the protections permanent.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Life may soon become a lot harder for those scrambling for lower wage positions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

ARIZONA ET AL. v. UNITED STATES

*NB parts of the decision. This is HELD ... so pay attention to the bold parts, it is caselaw and precedent in accordance with the rule of law, the laws of our land, and our constitutional framework.

Held:
1. The Federal Government’s broad, undoubted power over immigration and alien status rests, in part, on its constitutional power to“establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization,” Art. I, §8, cl. 4, and on its inherent sovereign power to control and conduct foreign relations, see Toll v. Moreno, 458 U. S. 1, 10. Federal governance is extensive and complex. Among other things, federal law specifies categories of aliens who are ineligible to be admitted to the United States, 8 U. S. C. §1182; requires aliens to register with the Federal Government and to carry proof of status, §§1304(e), 1306(a); imposes sanctions on employers who hire unauthorized workers, §1324a; and specifies which aliens may be removed and the procedures for doing so, see §1227. Removal is a civil matter, and one of its principal features is the broad discretion exercised by immigration officials, who must decide whether to pursue removal at all. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), an agency within the Department of Homeland Security, is responsible for identifying, apprehending, and removing illegal aliens. It also operates the Law Enforcement Support Center,which provides immigration status information to federal, state, and local officials around the clock.

...

(b)
Section 5(C)’s criminal penalty stands as an obstacle to the federal regulatory system. The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 (IRCA), a comprehensive framework for “combating the employment of illegal aliens,” Hoffman Plastic Compounds, Inc. v. NLRB, 535 U. S. 137, 147, makes it illegal for employers to knowingly hire, recruit, refer, or continue to employ unauthorized workers, 8 U.S. C. §§1324a(a)(1)(A), (a)(2), and requires employers to verify prospective employees’ employment authorization status,Cite as: 567 U. S. ____ (2012) 3Syllabus §§1324a(a)(1)(B), (b). It imposes criminal and civil penalties on employers, §§1324a(e)(4), (f), but only civil penalties on aliens who seek, or engage in, unauthorized employment, e.g., §§1255(c)(2), (c)(8).

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Exactly. undocumented workers are a civil matter. those that hire them are criminal. Why all the fucking around, we know where these people are, and how many. Go to where they are employed and Jail the entire corporate management down to the floor supervisor for the maximum of the law (and make it larger), and fine the shit out of them (and make those fines larger).

The nutsuckers are disinegenuous on this issue. They did the 86 law, and could up the enforcement against corporations instead of fucking around with catch and release, as well as upping the consequences. They are inept and lying thru their teeth on this. Could be solved in less than 10 minutes.

If people got nowhere to work, they wouldnt come to nowhere.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Agreed on your points, there are also some draconian black holes in our immigration law where people who are on the path to citizenship (say they marry an American) are sent letters that say they have to go to their home country and get a visa, and once they leave are in clear violation of the law, and cannot come back in the country for 20-10 or 5 years.

There is problems in that republican law, probably more than Obamacare, but the nutsuckers are incapable of actually fixing any law.