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What is the mental condition of a slave? - 11/23/2014 10:41:55 PM   
smileforme50


Posts: 1623
Joined: 1/24/2013
From: DelaWHERE(?)
Status: offline 		I was just having a lively discussion with a LONG TIME friend of mine. This guy is a Dom that I have known for about 7 years. He's been a great friend and has sort of been through hell and back with me. He's been a bit of a mentor and has always been there for me when I needed his help.

Anyway....we were getting into the not-so-nice things about being a slave....not a submissive or a bottom....but a 24/7 TPE slave.

He was asking me if I was in such an extreme relationship, and my Master decided he wanted to "sell" me to another Master....how would I react? Would I go willingly? Go but with some mental/emotional resistance? Tell him "Hell no!"?

I brought up the idea that, as many people in TPE relationships believe, the slave still has the option of "Obey or Leave". I told him that I may or may not go with the new Master, depending on how I felt about him...is he somebody I knew and liked? Someone I knew but didn't really like all that much? Or is he a complete stranger?

But I also told him that even if I went off with this new Master....I may change my mind and decide to leave him if I found I didn't like him.

He said that's not the slave mentality. He told me about a woman he knows. She was the slave of a married man for almost 4 years, and after he got divorced, he went to Europe to live. This other slave quit her job and packed up to go with him. My friend said that she sees herself as "a slave with no choice".

Have you even known any people in relationships that go to this extent? Does the slave feel like he/she has not choice and must stay with the Master ? Would they (or have they) accepted being given to another Master for a LTR?

< Message edited by smileforme50 -- 11/23/2014 10:42:51 PM >

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RE: What is the mental condition of a slave? - 11/23/2014 10:56:19 PM   
DarkSteven


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Status: offline 		I disagree with him.

The question is, what IS a slave? Is slavery an intrinsic property of a person? I contend that it is not, and is defined not by a single person, but by ALL persons in the relationship. So a person can be a slave to one person, and in a later relationship, a Domme to another. In poly, a person can have multiple roles at the same time.

His basic idea is that a M/s contract is assignable, like a mortgage. If Chase sells my mortgage to Citibank, nothing changes except the address I send the checks to. But people are not like that, and it is unreasonable to expect that a M/s contract will be unchanged if you change Masters/Doms, no matter what the conditions of the change are.

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RE: What is the mental condition of a slave? - 11/24/2014 7:48:09 AM   
DesFIP


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Status: offline 		So maybe she wanted to go with him. Lots of people get off on being 'forced' and he may not know her that well to see that this turned her on.

No, if he decides he doesn't want me anymore, he can't sell me on Craigslist. And really, even if I was forcibly taken to some new place, why would this new dude want a woman who threw up anytime he wanted sex. Who told him to fuck off if he asked me to get him a cup of tea.

I'd turn this around on your buddy and tell him what real masters do, which is not the kind of shit that he likes to wank to in stories. But instead, is about the best interests of the slave. Being sent to some stranger would not be in my best interest. Or my kids, nor in the new guy's when the cops were asked to find me.

This isn't like you get tired of your dog and take him to a shelter.

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RE: What is the mental condition of a slave? - 11/24/2014 7:52:07 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: smileforme50

Have you even known any people in relationships that go to this extent? Does the slave feel like he/she has not choice and must stay with the Master ? Would they (or have they) accepted being given to another Master for a LTR?


Of course there will be people who wants it to feel as realistic as possible and live it in a way where they feel like they have "no choice".

It's their choice to choose to what extent they want the dynamic to be.

Usually if someone identifies as a slave generally, they are already by default, no limits, and already truly chosen to hand their entire life over to their master and give up all decision making abilities. If they have limits, they are submissives.

Also some doms really worked at building this type of reliance and mindset. It's what they desire.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 11/24/2014 7:55:01 AM >

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RE: What is the mental condition of a slave? - 11/24/2014 7:54:44 AM   
Redhusky


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Status: offline 		"a slave with no choice", i wonder
if the slave gets a command from master to remove all her teeth's, will she do it ?
if the slave gets a command to kill somebody ?
if the slave gets a command to commit suicide

sad part is, there are police case involving so called "masters" / "owners" that actually kill there slave after they had all the fun. i'm not talking about the kidnap situation. i'm talking about where the person willingly agreed to be his slave without knowing that the only way to be free is by death

< Message edited by Redhusky -- 11/24/2014 7:55:20 AM >

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RE: What is the mental condition of a slave? - 11/24/2014 7:55:53 AM   
Greta75


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Status: offline 		There will also with women who wants to feel what it feels like being beaten to death and give permission for it to be done. There will be always someone for everyone, regardless what extremes.

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RE: What is the mental condition of a slave? - 11/24/2014 7:56:19 AM   
ExiledTyrant


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From: Exiled
Status: offline 		Hmmm... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fq3QmtV8vT0

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RE: What is the mental condition of a slave? - 11/24/2014 9:02:50 AM   
BitYakin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I disagree with him.

The question is, what IS a slave? Is slavery an intrinsic property of a person? I contend that it is not, and is defined not by a single person, but by ALL persons in the relationship. So a person can be a slave to one person, and in a later relationship, a Domme to another. In poly, a person can have multiple roles at the same time.

His basic idea is that a M/s contract is assignable, like a mortgage. If Chase sells my mortgage to Citibank, nothing changes except the address I send the checks to. But people are not like that, and it is unreasonable to expect that a M/s contract will be unchanged if you change Masters/Doms, no matter what the conditions of the change are.



except what you described is a D/s relationship not an M/s relationship...

that's WHY many people are very clear about being a SUB, not a SLAVE...

kind if silly to say I want to be a slave, but if you actually treat me as a slave I QUIT

is a slave property? well if not, then its just two kinky people who live together....

< Message edited by BitYakin -- 11/24/2014 9:04:57 AM >

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RE: What is the mental condition of a slave? - 11/24/2014 9:08:29 AM   
littleladybug


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin



kind if silly to say I want to be a slave, but if you actually treat me as a slave I QUIT



Does it not depend on how the two people actually *define* their relationship?



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RE: What is the mental condition of a slave? - 11/24/2014 9:12:17 AM   
MariaB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

So maybe she wanted to go with him. Lots of people get off on being 'forced' and he may not know her that well to see that this turned her on.

No, if he decides he doesn't want me anymore, he can't sell me on Craigslist. And really, even if I was forcibly taken to some new place, why would this new dude want a woman who threw up anytime he wanted sex. Who told him to fuck off if he asked me to get him a cup of tea.

I'd turn this around on your buddy and tell him what real masters do, which is not the kind of shit that he likes to wank to in stories. But instead, is about the best interests of the slave. Being sent to some stranger would not be in my best interest. Or my kids, nor in the new guy's when the cops were asked to find me.

This isn't like you get tired of your dog and take him to a shelter.


This ^ sounds like reality.
The Master in your post smileforme50 sounds like a game player.


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RE: What is the mental condition of a slave? - 11/24/2014 9:20:38 AM   
MariaB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

except what you described is a D/s relationship not an M/s relationship...

that's WHY many people are very clear about being a SUB, not a SLAVE...

kind if silly to say I want to be a slave, but if you actually treat me as a slave I QUIT

is a slave property? well if not, then its just two kinky people who live together....


You can't tell someone what they are. If they call themselves Master and slave and they feel they are Master and slave then they are Master and slave. There are no rules apart from the rules the Master and slave make for one another. If you go into this lifestyle believing you have to stick to the M/s manual you leave little room for natural and personal growth.

Do you think a Master and slave can marry? or do they just become a kinky couple once the wedding bands are on?


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RE: What is the mental condition of a slave? - 11/24/2014 9:31:39 AM   
smileforme50


Posts: 1623
Joined: 1/24/2013
From: DelaWHERE(?)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I disagree with him.

The question is, what IS a slave? Is slavery an intrinsic property of a person? I contend that it is not, and is defined not by a single person, but by ALL persons in the relationship. So a person can be a slave to one person, and in a later relationship, a Domme to another. In poly, a person can have multiple roles at the same time.

His basic idea is that a M/s contract is assignable, like a mortgage. If Chase sells my mortgage to Citibank, nothing changes except the address I send the checks to. But people are not like that, and it is unreasonable to expect that a M/s contract will be unchanged if you change Masters/Doms, no matter what the conditions of the change are.



except what you described is a D/s relationship not an M/s relationship...

that's WHY many people are very clear about being a SUB, not a SLAVE...

kind if silly to say I want to be a slave, but if you actually treat me as a slave I QUIT

is a slave property? well if not, then its just two kinky people who live together....


So you don't agree with "Obey or leave "...,, because there isn't (or shouldn't be) any. "Leave " option for the slave?

_____________________________

“Give it to me!” she yelled
“I’m so fucking wet! Give it to me now!”

She could scream all she wanted…..I was keeping the umbrella.

(in reply to BitYakin)
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RE: What is the mental condition of a slave? - 11/24/2014 9:38:21 AM   
smileforme50


Posts: 1623
Joined: 1/24/2013
From: DelaWHERE(?)
Status: offline 		Ok....something else this friend has said is this:


"Just because some guy says they are Master and you are now their slave, doesn't make it so. You have to be the one to tell a master that you have now trusted them enough to enslave yourself to them. The slave makes a person a master. Not the other way around. "


What do you think about it being defined by the slave like that ?

_____________________________

“Give it to me!” she yelled
“I’m so fucking wet! Give it to me now!”

She could scream all she wanted…..I was keeping the umbrella.

(in reply to smileforme50)
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RE: What is the mental condition of a slave? - 11/24/2014 9:44:55 AM   
littleladybug


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Joined: 5/30/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: smileforme50

He said that's not the slave mentality. He told me about a woman he knows. She was the slave of a married man for almost 4 years, and after he got divorced, he went to Europe to live. This other slave quit her job and packed up to go with him. My friend said that she sees herself as "a slave with no choice".



The key here is, to me, that *she sees herself* as this.

I have this ongoing discussion with a dear friend of mine. He has had issues with forming a relationship (I've known him for about 10 years, and he's been solo the entire time). I see other issues besides his "M/s" view as being the reason for this-- but he does have some very "strict" views on it. Slaves have no limits except those chosen by their Master, slaves have no choice...that sort of thing. He also saw a lot of my relationship with my prior Dom, and didn't mince words about my lack of "subbliness" there either. Now when I get sucked into the conversation, I just ask him to give me a copy of the "M/s handbook" that he keeps promising me.


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RE: What is the mental condition of a slave? - 11/24/2014 9:52:05 AM   
smileforme50


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From: DelaWHERE(?)
Status: offline 		Sounds just like what my friend believes....although he is currently happy married to his slave and has been poly many times

_____________________________

“Give it to me!” she yelled
“I’m so fucking wet! Give it to me now!”

She could scream all she wanted…..I was keeping the umbrella.

(in reply to littleladybug)
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RE: What is the mental condition of a slave? - 11/24/2014 9:55:49 AM   
littleladybug


Posts: 1082
Joined: 5/30/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: smileforme50

Ok....something else this friend has said is this:


"Just because some guy says they are Master and you are now their slave, doesn't make it so. You have to be the one to tell a master that you have now trusted them enough to enslave yourself to them. The slave makes a person a master. Not the other way around. "


What do you think about it being defined by the slave like that ?


While I don't necessarily agree with his other statements, I do agree with this one. To me, it shows a recognition that both parties must be on the same page with what they want.



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RE: What is the mental condition of a slave? - 11/24/2014 9:57:40 AM   
YouName


Posts: 271
Joined: 10/22/2014
Status: offline 		My opinion is often inflamatory on these issues (sigh) but I think that the concept of slavery is inheritely illegal and impossible to ascertain as to whether it's real or even what real would mean. Like RedHusky said, there are probably limits for all. Further more, slavery itself, even real, forced slavery was framed within the laws and norms of society. If you started pulling out your slaves teeth for fun you'd get jailed or fined in most historic civilizations. Not that I can think of an example as bizarre as that but there are plenty of examples where slave holders have either fled, been fined or even jailed for their brutality.

Now, should a "slave" follow their master anywhere?
This isn't really the question we need to answer but instead we should ask "what is slavery"?
Or better yet, what do you want from your slave or your slavery (in case of being one)?

If you've fully submitted to someone and you trust this person with your life and for him or her to decide its path then going with them to an other place is no more weird than doing so with a friend or a mate within the frame of your mutually agreed power exchange.

I think if you'd accept being "sold" to someone else then your submission isn't perhaps derived from that special personal bound but something else which I'm not going to discuss unlless that sale perhaps feels as a natural progression of things, somehow, somewhere???



edit: Ah, within the framework of a Gorean community maybe and that being your fancy? Or stable exchanges or what ever else I know very little about!


< Message edited by YouName -- 11/24/2014 10:09:03 AM >

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RE: What is the mental condition of a slave? - 11/24/2014 9:58:04 AM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
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From: Exiled
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: smileforme50

Ok....something else this friend has said is this:


"Just because some guy says they are Master and you are now their slave, doesn't make it so. You have to be the one to tell a master that you have now trusted them enough to enslave yourself to them. The slave makes a person a master. Not the other way around. "


What do you think about it being defined by the slave like that ?


It is mutually symbiotic, but IMNSHO I think it is in the /s's best interest to control the "exchange" until he/she is certain that this is the right place for them before they surrender the power. I also feel that any and all /s's, again IMNSHO it feel an /s should surrender 99.99% of the power reserving that shred of power to GTFO of a situation that takes a wrong turn.

I view anyone that has "Master/Mistress" attached to their name without a /s to validate it, is a Master/Mistress of masturbation cuz the only thing they are LAM over is their wank.

Jus sayin

_____________________________

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To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

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RE: What is the mental condition of a slave? - 11/24/2014 10:13:06 AM   
littleladybug


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quote:

ORIGINAL: smileforme50

Sounds just like what my friend believes....although he is currently happy married to his slave and has been poly many times


The "poly" part...

While I don't begrudge anyone doing (legally) what they want with their lives....in the context of this conversation, this begs the question for me... in the context of a slave having "no choice"... was this something that the wife knew was a possibility prior to agreeing to becoming his slave?

In my own world, it is something like *this* that gives me pause. If I were to hand over all control, I would expect that it would be with full informed consent. What happens if something comes up that was not anticipated by the parties prior to engaging in the relationship? No matter how thorough people are in discussing things, there's always that possibility. Heck...someone could tell me that he absolutely does not want to "share". What happens if he changes his mind later on?

If I were to ever enter into a relationship like this, it would certainly be with an "escape clause". Now, if that makes me "not a slave" in someone else's book, it really doesn't matter. Personally, I wouldn't have respect enough for someone to give him that power if he didn't respect me enough to understand that my consent will have that limit.

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RE: What is the mental condition of a slave? - 11/24/2014 10:15:44 AM   
BitYakin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug


quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin



kind if silly to say I want to be a slave, but if you actually treat me as a slave I QUIT



Does it not depend on how the two people actually *define* their relationship?





I can define blue as red, but it doesn't really make it red now does it?


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