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RE: Does grammar matter to you? - 11/30/2014 7:13:29 PM   
ExiledTyrant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

For me it depends if it is written or spoken grammar. Spoken grammar is much more important, I'm able to look past horrific spelling and a lack of grammar. Malapropisms, double negatives and generally lazy speaking makes my brain cringe. Maybe I'm a snob? I was raised by an English teacher who had been raised by an English teacher. We weren't allowed to say 'yeah' as kids, it had to be 'yes'.

I've gotten a lot lazier as I've gotten older, and also less picky. When typing I'm not great with punctuation, it slows down my fingers lol. And I begin sentences with 'and' a lot! Maybe in another decade I'll be more forgiving with the spoken word as well.

Good grammar isn't an exact measure of intelligence, intellectually I know that but emotionally a well spoken person is more attractive to me.


And then?

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RE: Does grammar matter to you? - 11/30/2014 7:28:24 PM   
camille65


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Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant


quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

For me it depends if it is written or spoken grammar. Spoken grammar is much more important, I'm able to look past horrific spelling and a lack of grammar. Malapropisms, double negatives and generally lazy speaking makes my brain cringe. Maybe I'm a snob? I was raised by an English teacher who had been raised by an English teacher. We weren't allowed to say 'yeah' as kids, it had to be 'yes'.

I've gotten a lot lazier as I've gotten older, and also less picky. When typing I'm not great with punctuation, it slows down my fingers lol. And I begin sentences with 'and' a lot! Maybe in another decade I'll be more forgiving with the spoken word as well.

Good grammar isn't an exact measure of intelligence, intellectually I know that but emotionally a well spoken person is more attractive to me.


And then?



And then I think about frolicking in a library.

I like libraries...


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Profile   Post #: 162
RE: Does grammar matter to you? - 11/30/2014 7:30:15 PM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
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quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65


quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant


quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

For me it depends if it is written or spoken grammar. Spoken grammar is much more important, I'm able to look past horrific spelling and a lack of grammar. Malapropisms, double negatives and generally lazy speaking makes my brain cringe. Maybe I'm a snob? I was raised by an English teacher who had been raised by an English teacher. We weren't allowed to say 'yeah' as kids, it had to be 'yes'.

I've gotten a lot lazier as I've gotten older, and also less picky. When typing I'm not great with punctuation, it slows down my fingers lol. And I begin sentences with 'and' a lot! Maybe in another decade I'll be more forgiving with the spoken word as well.

Good grammar isn't an exact measure of intelligence, intellectually I know that but emotionally a well spoken person is more attractive to me.


And then?



And then I think about frolicking in a library.

I like libraries...



OMG!!!!!

1. The smell of books!
2. a babies head.
3. Puppy breath.

Jus sayin


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Profile   Post #: 163
RE: Does grammar matter to you? - 12/1/2014 3:36:13 AM   
EmpressElsa


Posts: 37
Joined: 10/12/2014
From: Western Upstate, New York
Status: offline 		Yes and no.

I don't expect the average person to communicate as well as an English professor. However, I do not want to hire a cryptologist to figure out what the person is writing or saying.

Some things do get on my nerves though. I had a slave who called hamburger, hamburg and kiosks were pronounced kisocks. Another person I knew would say, "for all intensive purposes," rather than "for all intents and purposes." These things had to be corrected STAT!!!! Another one that gets me is is people who say aks rather than ask and using the improper form of "to be".

I used to be irritated by improper use of your and you're, but now with so many people writing on phones, I forgive it. My smart phone just LOVES to change the proper form into the improper form and I don't always catch it in time.

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RE: Does grammar matter to you? - 12/1/2014 3:52:51 AM   
ExiledTyrant


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Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
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quote:

ORIGINAL: EmpressElsa

Yes and no.

I don't expect the average person to communicate as well as an English professor. However, I do not want to hire a cryptologist to figure out what the person is writing or saying.



You just need the right tools.




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To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

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Profile   Post #: 165
RE: Does grammar matter to you? - 12/1/2014 5:32:26 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		Some of the older lawyers and high court judges in the UK are notorious for not understanding "every day" speak; so much so, anyone who has ever worked with them will eventually feel battered down by their refusal to understand abbreviated words. A barrister I once worked for, who greeted every male criminal with, "Nice to meet old boy. Do you fox hunt?" Didn't understand words like "photo" or "memo". I often had to translate perfectly acceptable English to him when I honestly had better things to do. He once offered to make me a coffee and I asked him for "decaf". He wandered into the kitchen and quickly returned saying, "we don't have a coffee called decaf". "DECAFFEINATED" I frustratingly informed him; "Oh" he said, "you should of said".

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RE: Does grammar matter to you? - 12/1/2014 5:43:31 AM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline 		A degree proves nothing.

Jus sayin

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Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

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Profile   Post #: 167
RE: Does grammar matter to you? - 12/1/2014 5:44:39 AM   
DaddySatyr


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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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Just as much as people don't like to catch flak for their text speak, why would people who speak correctly want to endure the slings and arrows of people who don't make the effort to do so?

Maria, I'm not speaking to you, specifically, I know about your reading/typing issues.

What I am saying is people can go ahead and use text speak and slang and contractions and what-have-you and the rest of us are supposed to hold our tongues but when did it become wrong to speak correctly? I tend to type out whole words, even when texting. I can't begin to tell you how many times I have been completely stumped by people using ridiculous abbreviations and txt speak in their communication. Then, they act like I'm at fault because I speak American; not text crap.

Well, I would hasten to suggest that all of our children are (supposed to be) taught American/English in school but no one ever offered me a class in txt speak.

I get it. I get it. People want to communicate how they want to communicate but if I'm "on my high horse" about them using American improperly, aren't they on a horse of their own about my insistence of speaking correctly?

Sounds like a "My-stubborness-is-more-acceptable-than-your-stubborness" situation to me.

(I will admit, though, that I think you're spot-on about the "decaf" thing)







Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

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RE: Does grammar matter to you? - 12/1/2014 6:04:45 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

Some of the older lawyers and high court judges in the UK are notorious for not understanding "every day" speak; so much so, anyone who has ever worked with them will eventually feel battered down by their refusal to understand abbreviated words. A barrister I once worked for, who greeted every male criminal with, "Nice to meet old boy. Do you fox hunt?" Didn't understand words like "photo" or "memo". I often had to translate perfectly acceptable English to him when I honestly had better things to do. He once offered to make me a coffee and I asked him for "decaf". He wandered into the kitchen and quickly returned saying, "we don't have a coffee called decaf". "DECAFFEINATED" I frustratingly informed him; "Oh" he said, "you should of said".

I'm not quite as bad as your barrister, but I do hate the amount of slang that is creeping into the English language and sometimes detrimentally affecting the ability to spell.

Chatting to people online and getting "yer" as a response irks me a lot.
"Yeah", "yea" and "yay" would be acceptable, "yer" and "ye" not so much.
I hate seeing "i" instead of "I" too!
Then there is the obligatory "im" instead of "I'm" or more correctly, "I am".... that really grates!!
The same for "dont", "cant", "wont" etc. {shudders}

Then you get those that type like they speak.
Example: "us and are kids". Not "our" kids, but 'are' because that's how they speak.
Using "probly" or "probally" instead of "probably"; again because of how they pronounce their words.

To me, that's the height of laziness. And quite frankly, unforgivable.
As for text speak.... I absolutely refuse to chat with someone using text speak. I find it insulting.
If you are going to use slang or abbreviations, at least use them properly!!

Sheeesh! What is the world coming to!


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Profile   Post #: 169
RE: Does grammar matter to you? - 12/1/2014 7:25:59 AM   
MariaB


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Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		I can't help but agree with you both. I thought I was pretty good understanding text speak but I can't keep up with the rapid shorthand that's taking place. I don't think its lazy though (text speak that is), its just a shorthand that is evolving, especially to younger generations and its not going away any time soon.

Social networking has ensured the written word has become less formal and much more random. The more people text and network, the more the written word will read like verbal conversation. You only have to look at how journalists write, compared to how they wrote 10 or 15 years ago to see the huge differences.

The one thing that really irks me is the change in the sound of a word. I often hear news readers pronouncing a country or province very differently to how its been pronounced before and then everyone starts pronouncing it that way. I can't think of an example though!

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Profile   Post #: 170
RE: Does grammar matter to you? - 12/1/2014 8:02:44 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline 		Text speak started way back in the days of the Bulletin Boards when speeds on a dial-up modem were slower than treacle and you paid per character or message length that you sent.

When mobile phones finally made it to be able to text. it was rigidly restricted to 160 characters and if you wanted a longer message, it got chopped into 160-character chunks and you paid on a 'per-chunk' basis.
So, you can understand how and why text speak became popular - to save on messaging costs.

These days, with better phone keypads/buttons and the advent of touch screens, and with pretty much most phones able to cope with messages much longer than 160 characters, I see no real need to keep up with text speak.
I find it rude and insulting these days when there are many plans with free text messages so it isn't like it's costing the sender anything.

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Profile   Post #: 171
RE: Does grammar matter to you? - 12/1/2014 3:42:14 PM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RockaRolla

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: Blonderfluff


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

If you don't have good grammar, by god, you better have some big tits.

And you can quote me.

Do we get extra Super Secret Squirrel points, if we've got both of those qualities????????


Ron did say *some* big tits, Blonderfluff. if you've only got two, that doesn't count, I'm afraid.
This one don't need no stinkin' grammar.




And that; my friends, is the definition of a trilogy. Thus endeth the grammar lesson.


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RE: Does grammar matter to you? - 12/1/2014 4:25:40 PM   
AffableSage


Posts: 3
Joined: 10/16/2014
Status: offline 		Language is about communicating an idea from one person to another. Be it by using little squiggles and lines on a page/screen, or a bunch of arbitrary sounds uttered in some sequence. The important part is the passage of information.

Language is defined by usage. Not by books. People make up words and when enough people use them, we put them in the book. "Quiz" wasn't a word until someone made it up and people starting using it and assigned it a meaning. Contractions weren't a thing until people speaking quickly began to abbreviate their speech where appropriate. English spelling has no rules it seems. I'm baffled that I'm able to memorize the sheer number of nonsense arrangement of letters that I already do. "U", "you" and "yew" are exactly the same sound when spoken. Their meaning when written can just as easily be discerned by the context.

To that end, so long as I can figure out what you're trying to get across then I'll accept it. I think it's what you say that is far more important to the conversation anyway. The worst I'll do when confronted with something I can't comprehend is ask for clarification. Berating them is counterproductive. They're trying to tell you something. Listen.

I believe that if you don't understand the new lingo, then you're not trying hard enough and you ought to keep up. I bring up the example that a bunch of Latin speakers "butchering" the language became what we know today as French. Again, language is dictated by usage.

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RE: Does grammar matter to you? - 12/1/2014 4:30:24 PM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline 		10pages10pages10pages

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Profile   Post #: 174
RE: Does grammar matter to you? - 12/1/2014 4:33:46 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

I can't help but agree with you both. I thought I was pretty good understanding text speak but I can't keep up with the rapid shorthand that's taking place. I don't think its lazy though (text speak that is), its just a shorthand that is evolving, especially to younger generations and its not going away any time soon.

Social networking has ensured the written word has become less formal and much more random. The more people text and network, the more the written word will read like verbal conversation. You only have to look at how journalists write, compared to how they wrote 10 or 15 years ago to see the huge differences.

The one thing that really irks me is the change in the sound of a word. I often hear news readers pronouncing a country or province very differently to how its been pronounced before and then everyone starts pronouncing it that way. I can't think of an example though!

I remember when the planet Uranus was in the news---cannot remember why---but the media pronounced it "Yer-a-nuss" because they couldn't bring themselves to say "Your-Anus"!!!

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Profile   Post #: 175
RE: Does grammar matter to you? - 12/1/2014 4:52:23 PM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

10pages10pages10pages


No joygasm for you, wanton slut! You're officially on joygasm denial.

Jus sayin

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To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

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Profile   Post #: 176
RE: Does grammar matter to you? - 12/1/2014 4:52:51 PM   
freedomdwarf1


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Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AffableSage

Language is about communicating an idea from one person to another. Be it by using little squiggles and lines on a page/screen, or a bunch of arbitrary sounds uttered in some sequence. The important part is the passage of information.

Language is defined by usage. Not by books.

Actually, most languages are defined by the scholars of said language and the definitions of words, phrases and how they are pronounced/spelled are written down in books for reference by others.
The idea for this is to homogenize and standardize the language and how it is structured.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AffableSage
People make up words and when enough people use them, we put them in the book.

Not until it has been examined, scrutinized, and ratified by knowledgeable language experts.
The spelling and usage also has to be refined/defined and slotted into the rules.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AffableSage
"Quiz" wasn't a word until someone made it up and people starting using it and assigned it a meaning. Contractions weren't a thing until people speaking quickly began to abbreviate their speech where appropriate.

The same as any word in any language.
Its usage and meaning get incorporated into the common or legal language.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AffableSage
English spelling has no rules it seems. I'm baffled that I'm able to memorize the sheer number of nonsense arrangement of letters that I already do.

It has plenty of rules but some are quite convoluted, others are arbitrary; probably because some words are derived or modified from ancient usage and others are 'borrowed' from other languages.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AffableSage
"U", "you" and "yew" are exactly the same sound when spoken. Their meaning when written can just as easily be discerned by the context.

Actually, "you" and "yew" should be pronounced differently as their root origins are from different words.
If you are pronouncing them the same then you are enunciating/phonating one of the words incorrectly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AffableSage
I believe that if you don't understand the new lingo, then you're not trying hard enough and you ought to keep up.

And when the "new" lingo is just lazy crap??
No, I don't think so.
Those using the 'new lingo' need to learn to communicate properly and correctly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AffableSage
I bring up the example that a bunch of Latin speakers "butchering" the language became what we know today as French. Again, language is dictated by usage.

Actually, French evolved from Latin by local dialect usage; not "butchered" per se.

Wiki: French is a Romance language (meaning that it is descended primarily from Vulgar Latin) that evolved out of the Gallo-Romance dialects spoken in northern France. French replaced Latin as the most important language of diplomacy and international relations in the 17th century.


< Message edited by freedomdwarf1 -- 12/1/2014 5:02:14 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 177
RE: Does grammar matter to you? - 12/1/2014 5:01:58 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pleasesir88

This boils down to personal preference.

For me, the attempt at good grammar is important. After all, you wouldn't show up at a first date looking like a slob.


Well, I would and, I have because I've never believed clothes make the man...man makes the clothes.

But I would never let my mouth wear anything but a tux.

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Profile   Post #: 178
RE: Does grammar matter to you? - 12/1/2014 5:30:14 PM   
kallisto


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quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

10pages10pages10pages



Perhaps now?

I don't often get the chance to "perhaps" ... maybe just pops out. Not sure why.

Perhaps my grammar needs improvement? (I was trying to stay on topic and not get off on shifty's 10 pages ..)

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Profile   Post #: 179
RE: Does grammar matter to you? - 12/1/2014 5:31:51 PM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline 		Or, perhaps you were trying to stay on topic and not get shifty 10 pages?

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Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

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Profile   Post #: 180
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