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[Poll]

The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson


Officer Wilson WILL be charged with a crime
  2% (1)
Officer Wilson will NOT be charged with a crime
  38% (14)
I could not care less
  11% (4)
Who is officer Wilson
  16% (6)
Regardless of the decision Wilson is guilty
  19% (7)
Regardless of the decision Wilson is innocent
  11% (4)


Total Votes : 36
(last vote on : 12/8/2014 3:18:50 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/8/2014 7:42:00 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Not to me... but maybe it would have been better to wait for backup... or have a taser ready... or have the billy out... or have the gun out with a drop on him before getting within reach... lots of things he could have done rather than shoot to kill

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 341
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/8/2014 7:44:10 PM   
kdsub


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Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

Leg shots are harder than you seem to think


Not at that range with 13 rounds or however many he had left...I'm not buying it Bama... now i would worry if I did not have a clear field of fire.

Butch



< Message edited by kdsub -- 12/8/2014 7:46:08 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 342
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/8/2014 8:53:36 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Not to me... but maybe it would have been better to wait for backup... or have a taser ready... or have the billy out... or have the gun out with a drop on him before getting within reach... lots of things he could have done rather than shoot to kill

Butch

Again you don't call for backup to ask someone to get out of the middle of the street, once it turned violent it to late. As for a club Brown had demonstrated that he could stomp Wilson into the ground, and he did come out with the drop on him, that is when Brown charged.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 343
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/8/2014 8:56:51 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

Leg shots are harder than you seem to think


Not at that range with 13 rounds or however many he had left...I'm not buying it Bama... now i would worry if I did not have a clear field of fire.

Butch



Remember he hit him several times, and from the audio paused to let him slow or surrender then fired again. As many people who were in the area he needed to try to hit him every time attempted leg shots are not high % hits, and he would have had to violate his training to even try them.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 344
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/8/2014 9:06:28 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Bama the confrontation was not about getting out of the street... it was about the robbery of the cigars... He had pulled away... got the alert... saw the kids dress and the box of cigars... then he backed up to confront him... a stupid way to do it as well. It would have been far better to get out of the car after calling for backup with a club out or taser or with his gun drawn... it was dumb to confront the kid as he did.... Poor training invited a deadly confrontation that was not necessary.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 12/8/2014 9:12:15 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 345
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/8/2014 9:10:58 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I will bet part of the new training will emphasize overwhelming force so as not to give a suspect an opportunity to resist in that manner.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 346
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/8/2014 9:14:59 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I will bet part of the new training will emphasize overwhelming force so as not to give a suspect an opportunity to resist in that manner.

Butch

Then we will see the cops trashed for displaying overwhelming force.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 347
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/8/2014 9:18:39 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Bama the confrontation was not about getting out of the street... it was about the robbery of the cigars... He had pulled away... got the alert... saw the kids dress and the box of cigars... then he backed up to confront him... a stupid way to do it as well. It would have been far better to get out of the car after calling for backup with a club out or taser or with his gun drawn... it was dumb to confront the kid as he did.... Poor training invited a deadly confrontation that was not necessary.

Butch

He underestimated the threat.
You cannot advocate overwhelming force and clubs instead of guns, pick one.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 348
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/8/2014 9:25:07 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Not if the suspect is not killed... and with a show of overwhelming force there may be no resistance. If a suspect sees there is no hope of escape there is much less chance he or she will resist the arrest.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 349
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/8/2014 9:29:47 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		With the new body cameras I would say be polite...be firm... be fair...and be ready. And there will be no problem with the community you are protecting.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 12/8/2014 9:37:03 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 350
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/9/2014 6:09:39 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

No. Who cares what happened before the fatal shot was fired? The entire case boils down to whether Wilson was in imminent danger when he fired. The physical evidence and Wilson's claims about the crime scene are at such drastic variance as to leave only one possible conclusion.



Actually it boils down to whether he thought he was in imminent danger and from the verdict the grand jury agreed that he did. Obviously they thought the evidence and testimony was enough. Now I realize you can't stand the idea that someone somewhere might just know a little more about something than you do, but there it is.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 351
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/9/2014 6:16:41 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Bullshit,Brown had already been hit ,by Wilsons own testimony and the forensic evidence that is not in dispute.
How than are we expected to believe that Wilson had a reasonable belief that this ,already injured/shot,unarmed man was a mortal threat to officer Wilson.
It's not like Wilson was absent other means (less lethal means) to subdue Brown......at the least Wilson should have been indicted as should the officer in Staten Island.
Officer Wilson is,at worst,a murderer ,at best a fucking coward who needs to find a more sedate line of work....one that doesn't include carrying a loaded firearm....or a license to hunt scary black men that he can shoot.



Any clue how many years he has been carrying that firearm and how many times he actually shot it. Or any evidence that he really thought of it as a license to hunt scary black men and that isn't just something you pulled out of your own head?

And I just love how you are now claiming he was injured in the car to the point it effected his movement. Next you will be telling us how he was crawling toward the cop with multiple injuries when he was shot.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 352
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/9/2014 6:29:43 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Not to me... but maybe it would have been better to wait for backup... or have a taser ready... or have the billy out... or have the gun out with a drop on him before getting within reach... lots of things he could have done rather than shoot to kill

Butch

Again you don't call for backup to ask someone to get out of the middle of the street, once it turned violent it to late. As for a club Brown had demonstrated that he could stomp Wilson into the ground, and he did come out with the drop on him, that is when Brown charged.

From 170 feet away. Wilson had plenty of time to get out of the way and to use his baton.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 353
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/9/2014 6:36:39 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

No. Who cares what happened before the fatal shot was fired? The entire case boils down to whether Wilson was in imminent danger when he fired. The physical evidence and Wilson's claims about the crime scene are at such drastic variance as to leave only one possible conclusion.



Actually it boils down to whether he thought he was in imminent danger and from the verdict the grand jury agreed that he did. Obviously they thought the evidence and testimony was enough. Now I realize you can't stand the idea that someone somewhere might just know a little more about something than you do, but there it is.

No. The grand jury was manipulated by the prosecutor and that was a travesty. Luckily there is no statute of limitations on murder.

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 354
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/9/2014 6:37:25 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I don't know what the distance was but I do know he said he drove away then stopped and I agree he had plenty of time to think and backing up was an aggressive dumb ass move... He had called for backup and could have waited a few minutes for them to get there. I just think he was surprised by the resistance of the kid.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 355
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/9/2014 6:41:17 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Bullshit,Brown had already been hit ,by Wilsons own testimony and the forensic evidence that is not in dispute.
How than are we expected to believe that Wilson had a reasonable belief that this ,already injured/shot,unarmed man was a mortal threat to officer Wilson.
It's not like Wilson was absent other means (less lethal means) to subdue Brown......at the least Wilson should have been indicted as should the officer in Staten Island.
Officer Wilson is,at worst,a murderer ,at best a fucking coward who needs to find a more sedate line of work....one that doesn't include carrying a loaded firearm....or a license to hunt scary black men that he can shoot.



Any clue how many years he has been carrying that firearm and how many times he actually shot it. Or any evidence that he really thought of it as a license to hunt scary black men and that isn't just something you pulled out of your own head?

Reports said 6 years. Standard procedure would be to qualify with the weapon at least annually so he fired it at least once a year.

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 356
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/9/2014 6:44:53 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I don't know what the distance was but I do know he said he drove away then stopped and I agree he had plenty of time to think and backing up was an aggressive dumb ass move... He had called for backup and could have waited a few minutes for them to get there. I just think he was surprised by the resistance of the kid.

Butch

I'm talking after Brown ran away. The scene showed Brown ran 178 feet away from where Wilson's car was parked before he turned around. Brown died 153 feet from the vehicle. Wilson's shell casings are within 30 feet of the SUV so he never let Brown get within 100 feet of him. He had plenty of time to do something besides shoot him.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 357
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/9/2014 6:54:00 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Bullshit,Brown had already been hit ,by Wilsons own testimony and the forensic evidence that is not in dispute.
How than are we expected to believe that Wilson had a reasonable belief that this ,already injured/shot,unarmed man was a mortal threat to officer Wilson.
It's not like Wilson was absent other means (less lethal means) to subdue Brown......at the least Wilson should have been indicted as should the officer in Staten Island.
Officer Wilson is,at worst,a murderer ,at best a fucking coward who needs to find a more sedate line of work....one that doesn't include carrying a loaded firearm....or a license to hunt scary black men that he can shoot.



Any clue how many years he has been carrying that firearm and how many times he actually shot it. Or any evidence that he really thought of it as a license to hunt scary black men and that isn't just something you pulled out of your own head?

Reports said 6 years. Standard procedure would be to qualify with the weapon at least annually so he fired it at least once a year.



Well if the comments people are making about him wanting the job so he had a license to go out and kill young black are true then why did it take 6 years before he actually killed one? If he is such a coward then why haven't we heard about all the others he has shot in the past? Surely this wasn't his first go around with a suspect. Cops are supposed to write up any incident were they fire their gun so where are all the reports showing us what a trigger happy guy he was?

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 358
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/9/2014 7:08:32 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I have never defended this officers actions... where we differ is you are defending or forgiving or ignoring Browns actions... None of this would have happened with two things... Brown not resist...and the officer had better training... In all these cases that have caused an uproar the suspects were assholes that resisted a legitimate police action and caused the confrontations. Then poor, improper, or aggressive actions of the police brought tragedies.

But you need to realize each and every one of theses guys were legitimate suspects in committing a crime... there is no way around it. They were punks that brought on their own deaths... Not black deaths but criminal deaths. I do not think petty criminals deserve to be shot or choked but that is the chance they take when they resist arrest.

I believe this... you may not... I believe that if, as in South St. Louis, a white man shot three rounds at a police officer he would be shot just as the African American... I believe if a white man was selling contraband and when confronted by police resisted he would have been choked by that officer in the same way... I believe if Wilson had confronted a large aggressive white boy that had attacked him and tried to take his gun... then charged him he would have shot him too.

I truly believe, in most cases, that the police problems in Ferguson and other African American areas of contention are a symptom not the cause of social problems and beyond the police departments control.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 12/9/2014 7:30:56 AM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 359
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/9/2014 7:52:46 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I see nothing wrong with demanding changes in Police procedures as long as they are reasonable and do not put the officers life in more danger than it already is. These changes would just be one step in what is needed to cure these social issues not the cure all. The citizens of Ferguson have the right to change their police department in any way they want, within the Constitution, and they will through the vote...not on the streets.

Take the example of a group of people you often rail against.. The Tea party. Yes they protested but they also initiated petitions to get their proposed changes to law on the ballot and they organized political support and gained power through the vote…all in a few years. This is all that is needed for any group of people to get the representation they want.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 12/9/2014 8:01:02 AM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 360
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