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The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson


Officer Wilson WILL be charged with a crime
  2% (1)
Officer Wilson will NOT be charged with a crime
  38% (14)
I could not care less
  11% (4)
Who is officer Wilson
  16% (6)
Regardless of the decision Wilson is guilty
  19% (7)
Regardless of the decision Wilson is innocent
  11% (4)


Total Votes : 36
(last vote on : 12/8/2014 3:18:50 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/11/2014 6:05:14 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

DomKen

Did you read all the witness statements?

Butch

I read the crime scene investigation and ignored the witness statements. maybe you should too. Eyewitnesses are notoriously useless.

But you dismissed Wilson's testimony because "all the other witnesses" disagreed with him. How could you do that if you ignored them. And as he has said repeatedly as have others with a higher level of expertise than you (in spite of your opinion) could possibly have.

The vast majority of the witnesses do disagree with Wilson if you read the witness statements. But the telling details are the crime scene details which clearly show that Wilson flat out is not telling the truth.

And those witnesses who disagreed with Wilson were demonstrated to be either grossly mistaken or outright lying, some even admitted to lying.

And the witnesses who agreed with Wilson were caught in lies as well. It just wasn't in the prosecutors interest to push that fact as hard.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 401
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/11/2014 6:07:52 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Or use THIS from NPR

You can find part of what I'm talking about in the document labeled 14 43984 CARE Main but there is supposed to be a diagram showing the measurements of the shell casings which was in the scans I saw in one of the first postings and isn't in these. It is explicitly referenced in these so I assume it is in these somewhere but I can't find it yet. Big chunks of the CARE Main document seem to be missing so perhaps it simply is something that got lost in reproduction?

Or maybe it was never there.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 402
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/11/2014 6:51:10 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		From what I read of that file and the testimony... Wilson ran after Brown down the street about 160 feet never more than 30 feet between the two... Is that how you see it? Then brown stopped and turned around and started back towards Wilson... then Wilson commanded him to stop multiple times while backing up... then fired when brown closed to 8 to 10 feet two series of shots. There was never 170 feet between them...was there?

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 12/11/2014 6:57:21 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 403
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/11/2014 6:58:51 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

DomKen

Did you read all the witness statements?

Butch

I read the crime scene investigation and ignored the witness statements. maybe you should too. Eyewitnesses are notoriously useless.

But you dismissed Wilson's testimony because "all the other witnesses" disagreed with him. How could you do that if you ignored them. And as he has said repeatedly as have others with a higher level of expertise than you (in spite of your opinion) could possibly have.

The vast majority of the witnesses do disagree with Wilson if you read the witness statements. But the telling details are the crime scene details which clearly show that Wilson flat out is not telling the truth.

And those witnesses who disagreed with Wilson were demonstrated to be either grossly mistaken or outright lying, some even admitted to lying.

And the witnesses who agreed with Wilson were caught in lies as well. It just wasn't in the prosecutors interest to push that fact as hard.


But then you think the fact that they backed Wilson proves they were lying.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 404
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/11/2014 7:10:55 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Its there Bama... I just want to hear DomKen before i post it.

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 405
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/11/2014 8:20:14 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

From what I read of that file and the testimony... Wilson ran after Brown down the street about 160 feet never more than 30 feet between the two... Is that how you see it? Then brown stopped and turned around and started back towards Wilson... then Wilson commanded him to stop multiple times while backing up... then fired when brown closed to 8 to 10 feet two series of shots. There was never 170 feet between them...was there?

Butch

Not from what I saw of it. What I see is a crime scene where the shell casings are clustered in 3 groups. One group at the SUV door. one group 30 feet from the SUV and then the 3 anomalous casings which do not match Wilson's claims and would seem to indicate that Wilson shot Brown while standing right on top of him. So I discount those casings as likely being dropped by Wilson or his buddies since they do not even come close to matching his testimony or any witness. Keep in mind we do have the audio of the shooting which tells us there was no lengthy pause in the shooting so it seems unlikely that Wilson chased Brown any distance but instead shot at him after a shot chase after leaving the vehicle.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 406
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/11/2014 8:28:37 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

From what I read of that file and the testimony... Wilson ran after Brown down the street about 160 feet never more than 30 feet between the two... Is that how you see it? Then brown stopped and turned around and started back towards Wilson... then Wilson commanded him to stop multiple times while backing up... then fired when brown closed to 8 to 10 feet two series of shots. There was never 170 feet between them...was there?

Butch

Not from what I saw of it. What I see is a crime scene where the shell casings are clustered in 3 groups. One group at the SUV door. one group 30 feet from the SUV and then the 3 anomalous casings which do not match Wilson's claims and would seem to indicate that Wilson shot Brown while standing right on top of him. So I discount those casings as likely being dropped by Wilson or his buddies since they do not even come close to matching his testimony or any witness. Keep in mind we do have the audio of the shooting which tells us there was no lengthy pause in the shooting so it seems unlikely that Wilson chased Brown any distance but instead shot at him after a shot chase after leaving the vehicle.

3-4 second pause, that is an eternity in a fight. It shows that Wilson paused to give Brown the chance to surrender and to see the effect of the first group of shots.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 407
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/11/2014 8:28:38 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Here is is... what do you say?






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 408
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/11/2014 8:36:22 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		This matches Wilson's testimony and many of the witnesses as far as I can tell

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 409
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/12/2014 2:48:38 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

This matches Wilson's testimony and many of the witnesses as far as I can tell

None of the casings are 10 feet behind Brown's body as Wilson claim's he was at the time he made the fatal shot. IOW the casings are staged Also there are casings at 30 feet in front of the SUV both by the Wilson's account and the county report.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 410
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/12/2014 10:09:55 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		DomKen first you said they were 170 feet apart…you were wrong… now you may have meant they ran 170 feet from the police vehicle…but you didn't say that. When I said 30 feet apart as he chased Brown you said I was wrong.

Then you said there were casings in three clusters one 30 feet from the SUV… wrong again

Now You say none of the casings are 10 feet behind Brown’s body… when the illustration clearly shows a reasonable distribution of rounds that match exactly Wilson’s testimony below. The witnesses testimony matches as well.





< Message edited by kdsub -- 12/12/2014 10:10:16 AM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 411
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/12/2014 10:15:20 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Every time I debunk your story you change it even in the face of credible undeniable evidence. At some point you will either have to admit you were wrong or loose credibility.

Understand... I do not believe the actions of Wilson were right... I believe, as you, he could and should have handled this differently. But his story is true and we can make of it as we please... but these are the facts.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 412
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/12/2014 10:17:08 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

DomKen first you said they were 170 feet apart…you were wrong… now you may have meant they ran 170 feet from the police vehicle…but you didn't say that. When I said 30 feet apart as he chased Brown you said I was wrong.

Then you said there were casings in three clusters one 30 feet from the SUV… wrong again

Now You say none of the casings are 10 feet behind Brown’s body… when the illustration clearly shows a reasonable distribution of rounds that match exactly Wilson’s testimony below. The witnesses testimony matches as well.





You started with "lets wait and see the evidence" so you looked at it objectively. DK started with "Wilson is a murderer" so he looks for conformation. (quotes approximate, reflecting attitudes, don't waste time telling me that those exact words were not used)

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 413
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/12/2014 11:53:33 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		hmmm something happened to the graphic post... I'll post again.






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 414
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/12/2014 5:13:20 PM   
BitYakin


Posts: 882
Joined: 10/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

This matches Wilson's testimony and many of the witnesses as far as I can tell

None of the casings are 10 feet behind Brown's body as Wilson claim's he was at the time he made the fatal shot. IOW the casings are staged Also there are casings at 30 feet in front of the SUV both by the Wilson's account and the county report.


really staged? so you think with all those people standing around watching, either Wilson or another officer or officers picked up and MOVED some of the shell casings...

and with all this EYEWITNESS testimony why did not one of them say and then this officer or that officer bent over and picked something up and dropped it over there?

maybe with all those people standing around looking they just didn't notice eh?
and with all those people watching some officer thought, I can do this right in front of them and NO ONE will see me do it...

and he calls ME STUPID!

_____________________________

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 415
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/12/2014 5:24:20 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

So have we settled the "brick vs. wood" debate yet?

Inquiring minds want to know.

this had all the makings of a tap tap tap thread.....truly pathetic yet rubbernecking for the hilarious bullshit coming out

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(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 416
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