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[Poll]

The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson


Officer Wilson WILL be charged with a crime
  2% (1)
Officer Wilson will NOT be charged with a crime
  38% (14)
I could not care less
  11% (4)
Who is officer Wilson
  16% (6)
Regardless of the decision Wilson is guilty
  19% (7)
Regardless of the decision Wilson is innocent
  11% (4)


Total Votes : 36
(last vote on : 12/8/2014 3:18:50 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/10/2014 3:20:03 PM   
BitYakin


Posts: 882
Joined: 10/15/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin






Those are steel frame with brick veneer.

What part of 17 years as a Re broker in 2 states looking inside hundreds if not thousands of homes did you not read?

Solid masonry homes are problematic when it comes to running utilities. I had one in Miami.

That is why most site built homes and all manufactured homes (about 20 to 25% of the new sales in the US) are wood based.



so a building with a steel frame and SOLID BRICK walls is what you call a veneer? ooooook sorry NOO those are steel frame buildings with SOLID BRICK WALLS not a brick veneer or COVERING
in those buildings where the inside area meets an outside wall its plaster directly over brick, a veneer would have some other material between the brick and plaster or drywall finished/painted walls

https://dictionary.search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0LEVzgS1ohUoQQA7CFXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTB0aDJ1MXI3BHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA1ZJUDU0Ml8x?p=veneer&.sep=

veneer

n.noun

1.A thin surface layer, as of finely grained wood, glued to a base of inferior material

tr.v.

1.To overlay (a surface) with a thin layer of a fine or decorative material.

NOT A SINGLE SOLID MATERIAL



as to your expertise, when you mistook a 2nd floor addition with siding over it for a wood frame house I was skeptical, now that you've called a solid brick wall a veneer ummmmmmmm
heheh

BTW I have been a plumber for well over 35 years, in 5 states, so I have been inside as many and probably ALOT more houses/buildings than you...
also I don't just walk around and look at the paint, I tear these walls open and see what's INSIDE of them

one last note, you being a house sales man no more makes you a construction expert than being a car salesman make him an auto mechanic

I tried to be civil about all this, you HAD to throw your EXPERTISE in my face

took some pics today, one is of some brick veneer houses, one of a veneer house next to a solid brick house, just so you could actually SEE the difference in construction, and one was a condemned building with all the windows gone and one window was missing its casing.
you could clearly see the solid brick construction threw the entire wall.
not sure how well that pic came out though the opening was dark, it was a gloomy day and I took it from my truck sitting at the curb
now if I can just figure our how to get them from my PHONE to my computer I'll post them....

here is a link and a excerpt from that link that may help illustrate my point

http://www.ehow.com/how_8492410_tell-vs-solid-brick-walls.html

Determine the age of the house. A brick house that was built before 1950 will probably have solid brick walls. However, there are exceptions in any year, so confirm your conclusion with other evidence.


another link on the subject you might find interesting

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-281748.html

< Message edited by BitYakin -- 12/10/2014 3:38:05 PM >

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RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/10/2014 11:23:12 PM   
BitYakin


Posts: 882
Joined: 10/15/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin






Those are steel frame with brick veneer.

What part of 17 years as a Re broker in 2 states looking inside hundreds if not thousands of homes did you not read?

Solid masonry homes are problematic when it comes to running utilities. I had one in Miami.

That is why most site built homes and all manufactured homes (about 20 to 25% of the new sales in the US) are wood based.



I didn't even notice the last two lines of your post the first two tickled me so much, but I'll address them now

are you saying wood frame houses do not have a solid masonry foundation? cinder bock, concrete and in older houses lime stone stones? if you contend they are not then what are their foundations? they just lay the beams in the dirt? make some kind of WOODEN foundation?

I have never anyplace seen such a thing

and here is WHY I bring this up, you say its problematic regarding utilities, but utilities enter a house threw the foundation 99% of the time, so it has ZERO bearing on what the house it made of...
the REASON most houses are made of wood is because wood is cheaper and the labor is less skilled and again CHEAPER and its FASTER again a money saver

in other words wood is NOW preferable cause houses made today are cheap and inferior

lil story, when I was working building townhomes in the Denver Colorado area we were required to test our water lines with 100 lbs of air pressure, we'd roll a small 120 volt compressor in and start it up, no matter where you were in the WHOLE BUILDING you could feel the viberation of it running

talk about JUNK PILES! I commented if they gave me one instead of pay I'd put it up for sale the next day!

maybe I misunderstood what you meant by solid masonry buildings being problematic regarding utilities, please clarify HOW SO?

I have been involved with the total gut rehab of aprox a dozen solid brick homes over the past couple years, and I didn't have a problem running my drains or water lines, and I didn't hear the heating cooling guy bitching nor the electricians

I have replaced the main waterline from the street to inside the house maybe 100 times, every time threw a masonry foundation, only once do I remember a problem, we had to bore under a garage where they had filled under it with 1" minus gravel and the bore was a BITCH, the gravel kept throwing the bore of our mark.
cause the boring bit to want to walk off up or down or to one side or the other

99% of the time we do a core hole saw in the foundation, dig a hole at the meter/tee head and use a water auger to bore a hole between them, connect copper to the boring rod and pull it back threw the hole and connect the ends

1/2 day job most times...

when I first started doing them we charged bout 600 bucks now days it runs bout 2 grand...

please don't preach your expertise to me, I have been involved in rehabs and remodels of 100 year old homes, been involved in new construction of town houses in Colorado and the building of a 13 story Marriot residence inn in SA Texas

you'll NEVER guess what the walls of that 13 story Marriot was made of, hell I'll tell ya, freaking Styrofoam, that's right 2" thick styrofoam with a cement paste smeared on it, I could cut threw it with a decent hunting knife
now THAT'S a veneer!

I can do a rolled lead joint, and wipe a lead cup joint, lead caulk cast iron pipe, work with copper, iron or plastic waterline systems
I can plan a drain waste and vent system and complete potable water system and price the material cost to within a 100 dollars in my head (in my area, cost/codes vary from area to area)

feel free to quiz me...

< Message edited by BitYakin -- 12/10/2014 11:40:07 PM >

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RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/11/2014 8:57:16 AM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		FR

So have we settled the "brick vs. wood" debate yet?

Inquiring minds want to know.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to BitYakin)
Profile   Post #: 383
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/11/2014 9:01:23 AM   
Aylee


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Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

So have we settled the "brick vs. wood" debate yet?

Inquiring minds want to know.


I hope so because scrolling past the same pics is annoying. Perhaps "snipping" lessons are in order?

Although. . . to be fair to the three little pigs, we do need some pics of straw (bale) houses.

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 384
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/11/2014 9:14:31 AM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Although. . . to be fair to the three little pigs, we do need some pics of straw (bale) houses.

As you wish . . .







_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 385
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/11/2014 11:38:38 AM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline 		I want a straw bale house.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 386
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/11/2014 12:07:46 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

I want a straw bale house.

So many big bad wolf jokes, so little time.

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Profile   Post #: 387
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/11/2014 1:12:44 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		DomKen

Did you read all the witness statements?

Butch

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RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/11/2014 1:36:55 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I ask because I have been…In the credible testimony the distances described varied…one was 5 to 10 yards…another was 2 or 3 car lengths…another was 20 to 30 feet… none were 122 feet.

There were some that were obvious lies…just as the prosecutor stated… One woman said Brown was standing by the police vehicle with his hands up when the police officer shot him in the head… then continued to shoot when he was down…Lie… Another said the police officer shot seven times or so through the window of the police vehicle…lie… Another said the first shot by the police officer from the car was to Browns chest… he saw the blood…lie…

Many describe Michael Brown stopping and raising his one arm and with the other touching his side then looking at his hand palm up like he was checking where he was shot...thus the raised hands

All the witnesses, that were not obviously lying and whose stories did not match the evidence and other testimony, said Brown was moving back towards the officer when shot AFTER the police officer repeatedly yelled for him to stop. These witnesses varied only in the speed Brown was moving back… One said Brown charged while most said he moved slowly.

As far as I’ve read within reason all the witness testimony backs Officer Wilson’s version…. So does ALL physical evidence you keep talking about but don't describe...at least from what I can read... I'll admit i did not read the whole 6,000 pages... but i did read most of the witness testimony.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 12/11/2014 2:28:03 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 389
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/11/2014 3:48:11 PM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

So have we settled the "brick vs. wood" debate yet?

Inquiring minds want to know.


For some reason, I keep thinking of the scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail where they're trying to figure out whether witches are made of wood.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g

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Profile   Post #: 390
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/11/2014 4:47:08 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

DomKen

Did you read all the witness statements?

Butch

I read the crime scene investigation and ignored the witness statements. maybe you should too. Eyewitnesses are notoriously useless.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 391
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/11/2014 4:53:15 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

DomKen

Did you read all the witness statements?

Butch

I read the crime scene investigation and ignored the witness statements. maybe you should too. Eyewitnesses are notoriously useless.

But you dismissed Wilson's testimony because "all the other witnesses" disagreed with him. How could you do that if you ignored them. And as he has said repeatedly as have others with a higher level of expertise than you (in spite of your opinion) could possibly have.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 12/11/2014 4:54:00 PM >

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/11/2014 5:18:47 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		You keep saying that DomKen but all I read agrees with the Wilson's and the witness testimony... I will most definitely read if you show which file in the Grand Jury report you information is in.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 393
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/11/2014 5:31:52 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		Tis really amazing how unreliable eyewitness testimony has become since it stopped backing up "the narrative".

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Profile   Post #: 394
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/11/2014 5:33:00 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

You keep saying that DomKen but all I read agrees with the Wilson's and the witness testimony... I will most definitely read if you show which file in the Grand Jury report you information is in.

Butch

If you'll link which grand jury transcript you're reading I'll try and find where the crime scene stuff is in it. The various posting are not consistent but if you'll look the crime scene materials are separate from the witness statements. It is in the stuff like the crime lab reports and the autopsy.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 395
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/11/2014 5:35:01 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

DomKen

Did you read all the witness statements?

Butch

I read the crime scene investigation and ignored the witness statements. maybe you should too. Eyewitnesses are notoriously useless.

But you dismissed Wilson's testimony because "all the other witnesses" disagreed with him. How could you do that if you ignored them. And as he has said repeatedly as have others with a higher level of expertise than you (in spite of your opinion) could possibly have.

The vast majority of the witnesses do disagree with Wilson if you read the witness statements. But the telling details are the crime scene details which clearly show that Wilson flat out is not telling the truth.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 396
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/11/2014 5:46:17 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I was reading yours

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 397
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/11/2014 5:50:15 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Or use THIS from NPR

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 398
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/11/2014 5:51:15 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

DomKen

Did you read all the witness statements?

Butch

I read the crime scene investigation and ignored the witness statements. maybe you should too. Eyewitnesses are notoriously useless.

But you dismissed Wilson's testimony because "all the other witnesses" disagreed with him. How could you do that if you ignored them. And as he has said repeatedly as have others with a higher level of expertise than you (in spite of your opinion) could possibly have.

The vast majority of the witnesses do disagree with Wilson if you read the witness statements. But the telling details are the crime scene details which clearly show that Wilson flat out is not telling the truth.

And those witnesses who disagreed with Wilson were demonstrated to be either grossly mistaken or outright lying, some even admitted to lying.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 399
RE: The Grand Jury has decided in Ferguson - 12/11/2014 6:03:11 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Or use THIS from NPR

You can find part of what I'm talking about in the document labeled 14 43984 CARE Main but there is supposed to be a diagram showing the measurements of the shell casings which was in the scans I saw in one of the first postings and isn't in these. It is explicitly referenced in these so I assume it is in these somewhere but I can't find it yet. Big chunks of the CARE Main document seem to be missing so perhaps it simply is something that got lost in reproduction?

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 400
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