RE: Suicide. (Full Version)

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TheBanshee -> RE: Suicide. (11/29/2014 4:59:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

I think a candle lit vigil is for the family left behind. If I lost a child to suicide, whilst I may be angry amongst a whole array of emotions, I wouldn't want to witness anger in others towards my child. It would comfort me to know they cared.

I just read an article that says suicide is usually an impulsive act. When survivors of violent suicides were interviewed and asked, "when did you decide and how long from your decision did it take to commit the act?" the majority of answers were between 5 and 30 seconds. They also found those survivors to have very impulsive personalities.


Just to be clear, I would never express the anger I had toward that girl to her mother, my heart literally ached for her and again, I knew that I could have been in her shoes.




TheBanshee -> RE: Suicide. (11/29/2014 5:24:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: xgender

I've been dealing with depression as a consumer and as an advocate for more than 30 years. Suck it up is insensitive - I don't care how you slice it. And if you think it isn't, then I maintain you have not seen the true depths of depression.

It is the very nature of clinical depression that one cannot possibly "suck it up". Would you say that to someone who has pneumonia? Cancer? Don't say it someone who is depressed enough to kill themselves or you may find yourself the straw that kills the friend you're trying to help...

As to your son, I can't imagine. As to your lot in life, you're not the only one that lives with hell...


"Suck it up" may be a little insensitive, but so is leaving your brains splattered against a wall for your wife to clean up. Yes I would say it to someone who had cancer or pneumonia if they were giving up and they still had a good chance to live - but as I said early on in my post there is a big difference with someone letting go who is already dying and someone who actively ends their life.






tj444 -> RE: Suicide. (11/29/2014 7:43:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

I just read an article that says suicide is usually an impulsive act. When survivors of violent suicides were interviewed and asked, "when did you decide and how long from your decision did it take to commit the act?" the majority of answers were between 5 and 30 seconds. They also found those survivors to have very impulsive personalities.

yes, that is what I believe it is, for most (but not those in physical pain or terminal where they make a more logical decision).. As I said in a previous post, if people wait 5 or 10 minutes the feeling subsides from the peak & you become more rational/sane (in my experience)...




Redhusky -> RE: Suicide. (11/29/2014 7:55:55 AM)

True, there is difference.
However it's not that easy as you say. The mind is very complex.
You can say why they dont ask help, but will they think they need help. Why do you think when a cop is near the person and says "dont jump...." and regardless what cops say, the person jump, it is because the person doesn't believe it will change anything. If the person believes it will change then why would it commit suicide knowing he/she will be happy again. At that stage, i think ,the person doesn't believe his/her life would change too better, so why fight knowing your life will not change, why fight knowing you will be unhappy, why fight knowing you will never find happiness.






MariaB -> RE: Suicide. (11/29/2014 8:10:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

I just read an article that says suicide is usually an impulsive act. When survivors of violent suicides were interviewed and asked, "when did you decide and how long from your decision did it take to commit the act?" the majority of answers were between 5 and 30 seconds. They also found those survivors to have very impulsive personalities.

yes, that is what I believe it is, for most (but not those in physical pain or terminal where they make a more logical decision).. As I said in a previous post, if people wait 5 or 10 minutes the feeling subsides from the peak & you become more rational/sane (in my experience)...


Yes, those who live in constant pain or who know that their illness will eventually cripple their body and mind, often plan a get out clause. I'm pretty sure I would. I'm a big advocate for voluntary euthanasia but that isn't legal here in the UK; yet. This means its illegal to hold a love ones hand or help them when they decide to take action into their own hands. Personally I would risk the consequences if I felt one of my loved ones were making the right decision. I want to remember a smile and not an agonised face begging for it to be over.

I read an article last night about suicide needing a voice. It runs courses where they teach you how to communicate with potential suicides or people you suspect could be at risk. Its on my bucket list for next year.




xgender -> RE: Suicide. (11/29/2014 11:26:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

I just read an article that says suicide is usually an impulsive act. When survivors of violent suicides were interviewed and asked, "when did you decide and how long from your decision did it take to commit the act?" the majority of answers were between 5 and 30 seconds. They also found those survivors to have very impulsive personalities.

yes, that is what I believe it is, for most (but not those in physical pain or terminal where they make a more logical decision).. As I said in a previous post, if people wait 5 or 10 minutes the feeling subsides from the peak & you become more rational/sane (in my experience)...


5-10 minutes? smh




xgender -> RE: Suicide. (11/29/2014 11:39:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheBanshee


quote:

ORIGINAL: xgender

I've been dealing with depression as a consumer and as an advocate for more than 30 years. Suck it up is insensitive - I don't care how you slice it. And if you think it isn't, then I maintain you have not seen the true depths of depression.

It is the very nature of clinical depression that one cannot possibly "suck it up". Would you say that to someone who has pneumonia? Cancer? Don't say it someone who is depressed enough to kill themselves or you may find yourself the straw that kills the friend you're trying to help...

As to your son, I can't imagine. As to your lot in life, you're not the only one that lives with hell...


"Suck it up" may be a little insensitive, but so is leaving your brains splattered against a wall for your wife to clean up. Yes I would say it to someone who had cancer or pneumonia if they were giving up and they still had a good chance to live - but as I said early on in my post there is a big difference with someone letting go who is already dying and someone who actively ends their life.




So because you think someone is going to leave a mess for you to clean up that that somehow justifies you saying "suck it up" to someone who is too depressed to do so? Why don't you just give them the gun and help them pull the trigger? oh yeah, you don't want the mess. Well, I have news for you, there is no pretty way to die. And the fact that you take a suicide personally (as an F-you to the survivors...[8|] ) shows you don't understand suicide.

You would say "suck it up" to a cancer patient if they were giving up - now you're adding a stipulation that was not there before - but I'll play. Some people don't want to hear that - some people give it their all from the start and don't need your type of "motivation". Specifically those close to suicide. Could saying suck it up to a suicidal person save their life? It's certainly possible. But overwhelmingly all you're doing is placing the blame for their condition on there shoulders and being judgmental in the process. AND chances are much greater that you will push them over the edge than actually help them. Again, just give them a gun - it would be kinder.




sexyred1 -> RE: Suicide. (11/29/2014 12:24:26 PM)

I think of suicide all the time.

I have cancer that is chronic and I don't want to end up alone and in horrible pain.

I don't think people who kill themselves are selfish or cowards.

However, I promised myself I would never do it until my parents are gone.

It would destroy them and they have been too good to me to do that to them.

But do I want to? Oh yeah.

Not sure how, maybe the car in a garage thing seems cleanest.

When someone says suicide is a big step to fix a small problem, you have no empathy.

No one knows what another person feels or goes through, so you cannot judge.

As for reaching out for help....please. The medical and mental health communities fail miserably to help.

So until you walk in someone else's shoes, you cannot say anything.





LaTigresse -> RE: Suicide. (11/29/2014 12:56:31 PM)

Interesting read this thread.

I've known people that tried it and failed (both my children). I've know people that tried and succeeded. I've known quite a few people that have talked about it, whether they've ever tried and failed I don't know. I live in constant expectation of a phone call about one person I love dearly.

I used to have quite strong feelings about those that do it. The whole coward bit. However, my feelings have mellowed. One, I don't have strong fearful feelings about death. It's part of life and none of us are going to escape it. I've come to conclude if someone really wants to opt out, that's their choice. I'd just prefer to not have to deal with a mess because of it. A very selfish approach I have towards it..........."go ahead and do it, just make it a nice clean tidy thing would ya..."

I don't have any religious mindset that affects my thoughts.......the whole 'sin' business. Meh.

I suspect the truth is, some of us are stronger than others of us. Some of us have mental illness and a built in book of excuses, others manage to take responsibility for their personal well being and get the help they need to soldier through it. Some people seem to relish being perpetual victims of life. It's all they know, it's their comfort zone. Regardless of how painful it is. Others recognize they don't have to life that way and go in search of a better path.

Call me cold hearted and lacking empathy, I may even agree with you. But I figure there are already too many of us humans on this big rock. If a few want to jump off a bridge and become fish food, or splatter their brains all over the rose garden, making especially big colourful blossoms the next season, I guess that's their right. Truth be told, I'd rather some people do it instead of constantly complaining about how horrible their life is when it's obvious they are creating a helluva lot of their own horrible. When they have nothing but excuses as to why they constantly make bad choices and end up suffering the consequences.

Truth is, it's usually not the whining self inflicting ones that do it. They'd rather piss and moan and go looking for sympathy.




UnholyBear -> RE: Suicide. (11/29/2014 1:39:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

This morning I witnessed a suicide. I was walking my dog along the river bank when I saw a man jump off a very high bridge. My first reaction was to call the emergency services. I was unaware that there were already police on the bridge trying to talk him out of it. The bridge is a popular suicide spot and as far as I know, nobody has survived the jump.

Many years ago I was the victim of suicide from someone very close to me. I understand this awful curb of emotions those left behind go through. I know what his family are about to go through, if indeed he has a family.

I know a lot of people think that suicide is a selfish act or a cowards way out. Whilst I fully understand the anger, the victims of losing someone to suicide go through, I can't help but think, how bad things must be before someone can end it all, especially in such a violent and certain way? I understand cries for help but a violent end isn't a cry for help. I think a person has to be very brave to end it all in such a way.

This morning there were suddenly a lot of people on the bank of the river and in the river. Peoples immediate reactions were "how terrible" and "how sad" and not the reactions we normally hear regarding a suicide.

I'm interested to know how others feel regarding this topic? do you believe they are selfish/cowards or do you think that perhaps they were just so desperate and couldn't see a tomorrow?



Suicide.

A pussy's way out and yet...terrifying....mentally disturbing....something that defies mental acuity.

It leaves loved ones angry....unfulfilled...left languishing.

Your children (if you have some) are left...doesn't need much more added to that. And your mate, she or he is an adult...everyone expects her or him to adjust....they can't because....you were a pussy. Tell the truth..in some fashion. On the other hand, if you are awash with anguish, at least leave a letter because, if you produced...you owe those you left behind.

It's awful.

Can't add to that because I've never been there. I don't know.

I couldn't possibly add to this.



It may be a pussy's way out or an attempt a way out and for us who have made that attempt and thankfully survived, that is and always will be a huge burden we alone have to bear. No you, not our close friends and not our family. And in all honesty...I hope the hell you never reach that point where you would even semi seriously consider it.

For the people who are unable to grasp what will lead a person to have suicidal thoughts, how they actually feel regarding the thousands of teens who commit suicide due to extreme bullying and even teens who kill themselves because they are LGBT identifying and they have little to no support from peers, family etc. Since this is also part of this topic even if they are mentally sound otherwise? I wonder if you would still hold the same views or not?





MariaB -> RE: Suicide. (11/29/2014 1:45:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1


So until you walk in someone else's shoes, you cannot say anything.




This ^.

Thank you sexyred and I'm sorry you are so poorly.




PeonForHer -> RE: Suicide. (11/29/2014 1:51:56 PM)

quote:

I've known people that tried it and failed (both my children).


Jesus Christ, how the hell did you stay on the level? I can't imagine that.




dcnovice -> RE: Suicide. (11/29/2014 1:58:55 PM)

quote:

However, I promised myself I would never do it until my parents are gone.

I've made the same promise to myself.




JstAnotherSub -> RE: Suicide. (11/29/2014 2:05:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse



I suspect the truth is, some of us are stronger than others of us.


This. I believe that one sentence sums up a lot of shit in our lives, and if we could remember it, we would all be a bit more understanding.

That said I think suicide can be an only way out, a chickens way out, even a final act of drama in a drama filled life. I have known all 3 of those personally, or at least that is my opinion of why they did it, they are not here to confirm, so I guess I could be wrong. It did happen that one time in 1978 [:D].

I have never been one to be swayed by things that celebrities do, but I have to say that Robin Williams committing suicide mellowed my views on it a good bit. No idea why, I guess I was amazed that someone that "happy" could reach the depths that left no alternative but to end their own life.

Me, I drive myself insane worrying about dying sometimes, so suicide has never crossed my mind. If I were living in pain, that could change I guess but I really do not see me ever having the guts to do it.

Hopefully the happy pills will keep working for me.

I do hope that anyone on these boards that I have chatted with for a long time, even if it had not always been pleasant exchanges, I hope they would feel comfortable to reach out to me or someone else, either in a thread or in private.

And I know it aint Friday, but fuck it.


[image]local://upfiles/633062/8BB0DACF0CD144EEAAE33E9AE4A6AAA2.jpg[/image]




camille65 -> RE: Suicide. (11/29/2014 2:37:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

However, I promised myself I would never do it until my parents are gone.

I've made the same promise to myself.


So did I. They are both 85 this year.




DaddySatyr -> RE: Suicide. (11/29/2014 3:53:44 PM)


The promise I made myself has next to nothing to do with my children (all grown or dead; youngest is 26) or my parents (Dad's gone and mom might as well be).

I promised that I have fought my way through so many things and even "cheated death" a couple of times that I am not about to help that old bastard along until the timing is convenient for me. That's how I look at it.

In the three years since I've been diagnosed, advancements have been made that aren't haven't won the war but they've changed the game. Had I taken the Robin Williams route (Making a decision and acting upon before it is absolutely time), I wouldn't know about the new procedure that uses electronic impulses to slow down the "head droops".

Yeah, my decision has probably already been made and I won't be telling my ladies to leave the pills and Southern Comfort and go for a drive in the country until I'm no longer able to make it to the lavatory on my own, but, even at that point, in my mind, I'll be displaying cowardice instead of hanging on until the very end. How sad would it be if I had my little "pity party" three days before the announcement of a cure?







Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?




DeviantlyD -> RE: Suicide. (11/29/2014 3:57:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse



I suspect the truth is, some of us are stronger than others of us.


This. I believe that one sentence sums up a lot of shit in our lives, and if we could remember it, we would all be a bit more understanding.

That said I think suicide can be an only way out, a chickens way out, even a final act of drama in a drama filled life. I have known all 3 of those personally, or at least that is my opinion of why they did it, they are not here to confirm, so I guess I could be wrong. It did happen that one time in 1978 [:D].

I have never been one to be swayed by things that celebrities do, but I have to say that Robin Williams committing suicide mellowed my views on it a good bit. No idea why, I guess I was amazed that someone that "happy" could reach the depths that left no alternative but to end their own life.

Me, I drive myself insane worrying about dying sometimes, so suicide has never crossed my mind. If I were living in pain, that could change I guess but I really do not see me ever having the guts to do it.

Hopefully the happy pills will keep working for me.

I do hope that anyone on these boards that I have chatted with for a long time, even if it had not always been pleasant exchanges, I hope they would feel comfortable to reach out to me or someone else, either in a thread or in private.

And I know it aint Friday, but fuck it.


[image]local://upfiles/633062/8BB0DACF0CD144EEAAE33E9AE4A6AAA2.jpg[/image]



That is awesome of you JAS! :)




inkedone -> RE: Suicide. (11/29/2014 4:17:25 PM)

Wow, this topic really hits home. My mom was first discovered that she had terminal cancer when I was ten. I loved and cared for her over the years watching as she went from a vibrant strong women to a shell of the women she once was. No amount of love, help, or support seemed to ease the inner pain she was fighting. I do not believe that suicide is not a brave act, but an act of eternal hopelessness; meaning that one can never truly know the depth of the struggle that lies within that person or when that person says enough.

I will never know why or understand the depth of thought that brought my mother to be so brave. I think that every case is different, and individual in nature. The ability to fight or give up comes from inside, and their is an individualized limit to how hard and long the fight continues.





dcnovice -> RE: Suicide. (11/29/2014 4:27:46 PM)

quote:

I do not believe that suicide is not a brave act, but an act of eternal hopelessness; meaning that one can never truly know the depth of the struggle that lies within that person or when that person says enough.

Amen.




sexyred1 -> RE: Suicide. (11/29/2014 8:45:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Interesting read this thread.

I've known people that tried it and failed (both my children). I've know people that tried and succeeded. I've known quite a few people that have talked about it, whether they've ever tried and failed I don't know. I live in constant expectation of a phone call about one person I love dearly.

I used to have quite strong feelings about those that do it. The whole coward bit. However, my feelings have mellowed. One, I don't have strong fearful feelings about death. It's part of life and none of us are going to escape it. I've come to conclude if someone really wants to opt out, that's their choice. I'd just prefer to not have to deal with a mess because of it. A very selfish approach I have towards it..........."go ahead and do it, just make it a nice clean tidy thing would ya..."

I don't have any religious mindset that affects my thoughts.......the whole 'sin' business. Meh.

I suspect the truth is, some of us are stronger than others of us. Some of us have mental illness and a built in book of excuses, others manage to take responsibility for their personal well being and get the help they need to soldier through it. Some people seem to relish being perpetual victims of life. It's all they know, it's their comfort zone. Regardless of how painful it is. Others recognize they don't have to life that way and go in search of a better path.

Call me cold hearted and lacking empathy, I may even agree with you. But I figure there are already too many of us humans on this big rock. If a few want to jump off a bridge and become fish food, or splatter their brains all over the rose garden, making especially big colourful blossoms the next season, I guess that's their right. Truth be told, I'd rather some people do it instead of constantly complaining about how horrible their life is when it's obvious they are creating a helluva lot of their own horrible. When they have nothing but excuses as to why they constantly make bad choices and end up suffering the consequences.

Truth is, it's usually not the whining self inflicting ones that do it. They'd rather piss and moan and go looking for sympat
hy.



Yeah, people who get serious illnesses and experience pain for years on end are whining, self inflicted drama queens. I know I chose to get cancer, thanks so much for pointing that out to all of us.

As for some people being stronger than others, I don't know what you have experienced seeing loved ones die slowly in agony or you yourself, if you ever get an illness that makes you wish you would never wake up, but how dare you accuse people who are ill of not being strong.

Edited to add that yes, you are cold hearted and lack empathy. But I suspect you find that a compliment.




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