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RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? - 11/30/2014 7:08:05 AM

freedomdwarf1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
I feel like someone gotta be the leader of the house bit is really more like a dominant point of view. If two people are just vanilla vanilla, they just co-exist mutually, usually they find somebody who suits them, similiar interests, same style of doing things, approach to life, etc etc, and nobody has to be in charge, they just co-exist peacefully together and support each other. Both can do what they want, if what they want are align.

That doesn't happen like that in real life - at least not outside of Singapore.
You'll find that someone in pretty much all partnerships, tends to take the lead.
Very very few stay on equal and autonomous levels.
And for most, that give and take is what makes the relationship.

And it seems you are taking the point to the extreme as in 'in charge'.
It isn't usually that stark.

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Post #: 41

RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? - 11/30/2014 7:10:42 AM

Greta75

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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
And for most, that give and take is what makes the relationship.

Well, let me put it this way.

The "give" part in a D/S relationship is usually an imbalance, where the "S" gives more.

But in a vanilla vanilla relationship, the give and take can get pretty equal, +/- a few off percentages, but it's alot more balance than in D/S. But of course D/S is balance in the way as, that's what the "S type" is into. The amount of control a D type wants over an S, in a vanilla relationship, would drive the party being controlled crazy for sure, but in a D/S relationship would be harmony.

It's totally different.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 11/30/2014 7:11:58 AM >

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

Post #: 42

RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? - 11/30/2014 7:13:59 AM

NookieNotes

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Joined: 11/10/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

The "give" part in a D/S relationship is usually an imbalance, where the "S" gives more.

Oh! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

That's rich.

Just to be clear, in case my laughter obfuscates, that is NOT how it is in my world, nor has it ever been.

< Message edited by NookieNotes -- 11/30/2014 7:15:55 AM >

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Post #: 43

RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? - 11/30/2014 7:15:48 AM

Greta75

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

The "give" part in a D/S relationship is usually an imbalance, where the "S" gives more.

Oh! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

That's rich.

Just to be clear, in cases my laughter obfuscates, that is NOT how it is in my world, nor has it ever been.

I am saying it's an imbalance in vanilla sense. Did you not read part two, that in the D/S sense, it's balance, because that's what the S type is looking for, that type of dynamic to be the yang to her ying.

And, also, there is also some differences in view on whether does D/S belong to vanilla category OR BDSM category, as we are comparing vanilla versus BDSM.

I am lumping D/S into BDSM category.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 11/30/2014 7:17:29 AM >

(in reply to NookieNotes)

Post #: 44

RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? - 11/30/2014 7:17:59 AM

freedomdwarf1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant
No Greta, don't be obtuse. Everything about you, every thread, every post is "do-me my way and only my way", if you wan't control switch to Domme FFS.

What the hell is domme FFS?

The "do me my way" is all about compatibility. I am not a slave, just a sub with limits.

How can you be a sub of any description if you don't give up any sort of control??
I guess you do that as a scene and extrapolate that to vanilla life.
And maybe that's why you see things so black and white with vanilla and BDSM.

You would never be a partner of mine, not even in a scene.
Your whole being seems to be very selfish unless you are immersed in a BDSM relationship.
I find that attitude to be very shallow.
My OH has been following me on this thread and agrees.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
The "give" part in a D/S relationship is usually an imbalance, where the "S" gives more.

Really?? How the fuck do you calculate that measure??

You certainly live in a strange bubble world.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Greta75)

Post #: 45

RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? - 11/30/2014 7:23:23 AM

NookieNotes

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Joined: 11/10/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

I am saying it's an imbalance in vanilla sense. Did you not read part two, that in the D/S sense, it's balance, because that's what the S type is looking for, that type of dynamic to be the yang to her ying.

What you are saying here does not negate your assertion. I don't see there where there is anything about the D GIVING more. Just balancing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

And, also, there is also some differences in view on whether does D/S belong to vanilla category OR BDSM category, as we are comparing vanilla versus BDSM.

I am lumping D/S into BDSM category.

BDSM:
Bondage & Discipline
Dominance and Sumbission <--- Yes, it's right there.
Sadism and Masochism

It's commonly accepted that acknowledged power exchanges are not vanilla, in my experience.

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Post #: 46

RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? - 11/30/2014 7:27:22 AM

Greta75

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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
How can you be a sub of any description if you don't give up any sort of control??

I don't need 100% trust to be in a vanilla relationship. But I need 100% trust to give up control. I just explained already that in vanilla relationships, no relinquishing of any control required. So it is exactly that black and white. A guy isn't vanilla at all if he wants to control my life. He could be like, don't want any sex at all from me for the rest of his life but still want to control my life, then his not vanilla. That's my definition.

quote:

I find that attitude to be very shallow.
My OH has been following me on this thread and agrees.

I don't know why you guys are having issues with me not submitting to just anybody and calling that selfish or shallow. This is really weird coming from both of you.

quote:

Really?? How the fuck do you calculate that measure??
You certainly live in a strange bubble world.

Are you kidding? With every dom getting upset about a sub talking about what she wants, like she has no right to want stuffs at all, just because she identifies as a sub, then clearly what she wants does not matter at all, all it matters is what he wants, and she obeys him. Obviously even you and exiletyrant feels that way.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 11/30/2014 7:29:02 AM >

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Post #: 47

RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? - 11/30/2014 7:31:20 AM

Greta75

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
What you are saying here does not negate your assertion. I don't see there where there is anything about the D GIVING more. Just balancing.

You mean to say that you do not see anything about an S giving more right?
You mean you don't see how if a vanilla person in a vanilla relationship views a D/S relationship or a Master and Slave relationship going on, and they wouldn't see how the S is giving more? Come on!!
Vanilla glasses on - S will be seen as giving more
BDSM glasses on - both are giving each other what each other needs

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 11/30/2014 7:32:22 AM >

(in reply to NookieNotes)

Post #: 48

RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? - 11/30/2014 7:37:55 AM

NookieNotes

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Joined: 11/10/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
What you are saying here does not negate your assertion. I don't see there where there is anything about the D GIVING more. Just balancing.

You mean to say that you do not see anything about an S giving more right?

I mean, you said an s-type gives more. Then you said there is a balance. But you never balanced it by saying the D-type gives more. OR that the d-type gives at all, simply that there is balance.

The word balance and the word give are two different words for a reason.

Have I clarified, now?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

You mean you don't see how if a vanilla person in a vanilla relationship views a D/S relationship or a Master and Slave relationship going on, and they wouldn't see how the S is giving more? Come on!!
Vanilla glasses on - S will be seen as giving more
BDSM glasses on - both are giving each other what each other needs

I don't care how "a vanilla person in a vanilla relationship" views it. I wasn't quoting them. I was quoting you.

And saying that your assertion is ridiculous, and nowhere near the experiences I've had.

Period.

And this part:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

BDSM glasses on - both are giving each other what each other needs

Still does not contradict your assertion that the s-type gives more. It simply adds to it, suggesting d-types need more than s-types, and therefore don't give as much, in your mind.

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Post #: 49

RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? - 11/30/2014 7:50:51 AM

Greta75

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Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
I mean, you said an s-type gives more. Then you said there is a balance. But you never balanced it by saying the D-type gives more. OR that the d-type gives at all, simply that there is balance.

I don't believe D-type gives more in bdsm sense, yes. I believe the sub will always be expected to give more. See all the D types here always getting upset about sub even wanting anything at all. Tells me alot already. But then again, are you a female dominant, I am a female straight sub, who only sees dominants as males, so I don't know what goes on in female domme world, as I never dabble with them and have no reason to, since I'm straight.

What I mean by balance in the bdsm sense is that, for example, a no limit slave, on surface may look like she is doing 100% of the giving, but on the other hand, it's what fulfills her, so it balances out as ying and yang, that his giving her what she needs exactly. But still from a vanilla perspective, it still will look like she's giving everything. That's what I mean.

quote:

I don't care how "a vanilla person in a vanilla relationship" views it. I wasn't quoting them. I was quoting you.

This whole conversation is getting extremely confusing because it started with me simply saying that many vanilla relationships function long term without 100% trust, and then going into details about why it works EVEN without 100% trust.
And then somehow freedomdwarf keeps talking about control in vanilla relationships, which lead to me, questioning is D/S actually discussed as a vanilla activity or a BDSM activity. And you and freedomdwarf might have two completely different definition to that.

So everything I said is in the context of whatever I was discussing with freedom dwarf.

quote:

Still does not contradict your assertion that the s-type gives more. It simply adds to it, suggesting d-types need more than s-types, and therefore don't give as much, in your mind.

I haven't met a D type who didn't want to take more than give. Also, who did not start feeling upset if he feels his giving more than receiving. So I believe that as an S, you have to give more than take. Or else, you get accusations from ET for example that you are not an S, because you want to take more than you want to give.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 11/30/2014 7:51:28 AM >

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Post #: 50

RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? - 11/30/2014 7:56:36 AM

ExiledTyrant

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From: Exiled
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

I believe the sub will always be expected to give more.

And yet you are here dictating the minutia of it all down to the last skerrick. Look, you do not have to fear the responsibility of being a Domme, there are plenty of "Princess Dommes" out there, so just go be one.

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To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

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(in reply to Greta75)

Post #: 51

RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? - 11/30/2014 8:00:47 AM

Greta75

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Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant
And yet you are here dictating the minutia of it all down to the last skerrick. Look, you do not have to fear the responsibility of being a Domme, there are plenty of "Princess Dommes" out there, so just go be one.

I lose interest in sex with a man if I had to lead.
So I can't do dominatrix.
But I tend to lead, as I'm simply looking for an alpha more alpha than me.
So can't do princess domme if it kills my sex drive, and then what use is that sub male to me?

(in reply to ExiledTyrant)

Post #: 52

RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? - 11/30/2014 8:07:22 AM

Greta75

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Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant
And yet you are here dictating the minutia of it all down to the last skerrick.

I just want to say to you, stop contradicting yourself. Either you think there is no problem for a dominant to give more to a sub than a sub gives to him. OR you think there is a problem.
You view me as a sub who is a taker, and you view that with disdain, so don't contradict yourself.

(in reply to ExiledTyrant)

Post #: 53

RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? - 11/30/2014 8:07:50 AM

ExiledTyrant

Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant
And yet you are here dictating the minutia of it all down to the last skerrick. Look, you do not have to fear the responsibility of being a Domme, there are plenty of "Princess Dommes" out there, so just go be one.

I lose interest in sex with a man if I had to lead.
So I can't do dominatrix.
But I tend to lead, as I'm simply looking for an alpha more alpha than me.
So can't do princess domme if it kills my sex drive, and then what use is that sub male to me?

You, Alpha?

I appreciate the nomenclatures of canine ethology, but Alpha would not be the "canine nomenclature" I would attach to you.

Jus sayin

_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

(in reply to Greta75)

Post #: 54

RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? - 11/30/2014 8:09:16 AM

Greta75

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Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

You, Alpha?
I appreciate the nomenclatures of canine ethology, but Alpha would not be the "canine nomenclature" I would attach to you.
Jus sayin

Yet you recommend that I dominate instead of sub. More contradictions? I didn't know that you think Beta make better dominants than submissive.

(in reply to ExiledTyrant)

Post #: 55

RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? - 11/30/2014 8:11:00 AM

ExiledTyrant

Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

You, Alpha?
I appreciate the nomenclatures of canine ethology, but Alpha would not be the "canine nomenclature" I would attach to you.
Jus sayin

Yet you recommend that I dominate instead of sub. More contradictions? I didn't know that you think Beta make better dominants than submissive.

Again, the Miss Swan horse shit is pretty old.

_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

(in reply to Greta75)

Post #: 56

RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? - 11/30/2014 8:11:53 AM

NookieNotes

Posts: 1720
Joined: 11/10/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

What I mean by balance in the bdsm sense is that, for example, a no limit slave, on surface may look like she is doing 100% of the giving, but on the other hand, it's what fulfills her, so it balances out as ying and yang, that his giving her what she needs exactly. But still from a vanilla perspective, it still will look like she's giving everything. That's what I mean.

Yes, and this makes me laugh.

Because it's just not true.

You've mentioned children. Do children give everything? Do parents simply offer them what they need? Food, shelter? A dominant in a D/s relationship is a lot more than ordering someone around. It's having a plan. It's caring for that person. It's choosing to speak up about an issue now, when it happens, no matter how tired or annoyed they are. It's about being strong, even when we may feel weak. It's about making you feel safe when you've pissed us off so badly we can hardly see straight.

It's about crafting a life for you to grow and become more than you were without us. It's about giving you everything you need, not to just survive, but thrive. To heal wounds that came from your past.

This is just a scratch on the surface of what dominants take on when they take on a sub. And NOT just female dominants, either.

So, when you say s-types give more, it makes me laugh. Because it suggests that you are exactly what the others suggest. A do-me sub. And explains why all you are experiencing are do-me doms.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

This whole conversation is getting extremely confusing because it started with me simply saying that many vanilla relationships function long term without 100% trust, and then going into details about why it works EVEN without 100% trust.
And then somehow freedomdwarf keeps talking about control in vanilla relationships, which lead to me, questioning is D/S actually discussed as a vanilla activity or a BDSM activity. And you and freedomdwarf might have two completely different definition to that.

So everything I said is in the context of whatever I was discussing with freedom dwarf.

See, here's the thing. Perhaps I'm going about this the wrong way, but when I say things, I mean them. No matter who I say them to.

And I took your context. And spoke to the words and substance of what you were saying.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

I haven't met a D type who didn't want to take more than give. Also, who did not start feeling upset if he feels his giving more than receiving. So I believe that as an S, you have to give more than take. Or else, you get accusations from ET for example that you are not an S, because you want to take more than you want to give.

The dominants on here are not upset about you wanting things or needing things from your relationships. You are mistaking their intentions, in my eyes, perhaps willfully.

As I see it, they are pointing out that wanting things and demanding things, no matter how you excuse or justify, are not the same thing.

That a submissive with a fantasy relationship checklist is no different from a dominant with the same.

Therefore, you could just as easily be one or the other, since you will not get either with that attitude. Actually, you are more likely to get the Domme relationship, because there are many sub males who like to play into that fantasy.

As I alluded to before, do-me subs almost always end up with do-me doms.

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Post #: 57

RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? - 11/30/2014 8:12:26 AM

Greta75

Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant
Again, the Miss Swan horse shit is pretty old.

Yea, you being unable to answer my questions, and then resorting to ad hominem is pretty lame. I expect more from you frankly.

(in reply to ExiledTyrant)

Post #: 58

RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? - 11/30/2014 8:12:50 AM

Kaliko

Posts: 3381
Joined: 9/25/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

That doesn't happen like that in real life - at least not outside of Singapore.
You'll find that someone in pretty much all partnerships, tends to take the lead.
Very very few stay on equal and autonomous levels.
And for most, that give and take is what makes the relationship.

I think that's true that someone in pretty much all partnerships tends to take the lead. But I also think that some of the struggles with a vanilla relationship (or any kind of relationship without a very clear power structure), is who takes the lead when. So there is give and take, yes. There has to be, because at any moment one partner might have to suddenly be more flexible than he or she would like to be, given who has the control of that certain situation.

I defer to him. He takes my opinions into account, but he does not defer to me. And yeah, you know what? As I'm typing this I'm thinking - yes, to do this it does take a significantly deeper level of trust in him than I have had in previous vanilla relationships. I don't always agree with him, but I have learned through experience that he has infinitely more foresight than I do. And I trust him. I don't know if I could have gotten past the "I don't agree with him" stage in a vanilla relationship. There is no deferring. I would have just fought until one of us finally caved, probably for no other reason than I had the power to do so. So maybe it's not that my vanilla relationship couldn't have had as much trust as my current, but that there was no opportunity to have to build that level of trust in the first place. (Maybe?)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

I haven't met a D type who didn't want to take more than give. Also, who did not start feeling upset if he feels his giving more than receiving. So I believe that as an S, you have to give more than take. Or else, you get accusations from ET for example that you are not an S, because you want to take more than you want to give.

I am submissive, and according to my own definition of my submission (which is not a popular one, I know), the Dominant partner is absolutely entitled to take more than give. It's kinda the whole point. I am serving him. Now, he cares for me and believe me, he gives in incredible and courageous ways. But he does these things for me and with me because he wants to; because ultimately, there is benefit for him. I am serving him.

Obviously, I get benefit too, and I live this way because I want to, as well. But I change my behavior and actions to suit his needs and desires. Not the other way around. So personally, I wouldn't call myself submissive if I was expecting him to "give" in the same ways that I do. I expect and I want him to take.

< Message edited by Kaliko -- 11/30/2014 8:16:10 AM >

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

Post #: 59

RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? - 11/30/2014 8:23:23 AM

freedomdwarf1

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant
And yet you are here dictating the minutia of it all down to the last skerrick. Look, you do not have to fear the responsibility of being a Domme, there are plenty of "Princess Dommes" out there, so just go be one.

I lose interest in sex with a man if I had to lead.
So I can't do dominatrix.
But I tend to lead, as I'm simply looking for an alpha more alpha than me.
So can't do princess domme if it kills my sex drive, and then what use is that sub male to me?

That sounds very much like you are just a straight bedroom sub but otherwise dominant in every other aspect.

If you lead, or want to lead, that makes you the dominant, not submissive.
And that isn't always just in the bedroom or outside the bedroom.

Your take on things, both BDSM and vanilla, appear to be in a very small niche.
Yet you are espousing this PoV as if it were the normal way of things for everyone else.
Sorry to inform you, you are in a very small minority in your PoV and your society/environment.
The rest of the world does things (generally) much different than you do and obviously have a different PoV than you do.

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

George Orwell, 1903-1950

(in reply to Greta75)

Post #: 60

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