RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla?

RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? (Full Version)

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seekingreality -> RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? (12/8/2014 5:57:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterVenom13 Would you say that a D/s relationship and a Vanilla relationship are ultimately no different from each other? I mean when you break them down a few details may be different but the core values of both relationships types are the same like trust and respect. I ask because I know some people say a Vanilla relationship is different from a BDSM relationship but I've never really seen the difference. The trouble with this question is that both vanilla and BDSM relationships are all over the map. There are vanilla relationships where one partner controls the other more than in a typical BDSM relationship, for example. There are BDSM relationships where the parties act pretty much in a vanilla way on a day-to-day basis but like to throw in some kink. I've had BDSM relationships all across the spectrum, so I don't think any sweeping generalizations will hold.

FieryOpal -> RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? (12/8/2014 7:01:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist Vanilla gift of love = he went to Jared BDSM gift of love = he went to Pet Smart LOL, or to put it another way, Vanilla gift of love = he went to Jared BDSM gift of love = he went to Pet Smart D/S gift of love = he went to Jared AND Home Depot (Aisle#15, first stop) [;)]

littleladybug -> RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? (12/8/2014 7:18:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FieryOpal D/S gift of love = he went to Jared AND Home Depot (Aisle#15, first stop) [;)] Have I told you lately that I love you? [:D]

FieryOpal -> RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? (12/8/2014 7:32:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littleladybug quote: ORIGINAL: FieryOpal D/S gift of love = he went to Jared AND Home Depot (Aisle#15, first stop) [;)] Have I told you lately that I love you? [:D] Tell your man that it was RS's idea...especially with the holidays coming up! Think birthstone jewelry, and those Pandora charm bracelets make great collar substitutes for everyday wear. :p

Greta75 -> RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? (12/10/2014 9:46:18 PM)
quote: That is why I think that once divorce began to become more accepted, it's rate rose quickly. People realized that they didn't have to be doomed to live in a relationship where there was not enough communication and mutual sharing of oneself, where they potentially felt lonelier than when they were alone. I don't find this to be true, especially when there are kids involved. And it's not my culture specific. I've definitely spoken to alot of married British and American and European who are "staying for the kids". Who aren't even base in Singapore but exists from this website alone! You know as a woman, you get alot of married men chat you up, despite your profile clearly stating no married men please, but for me, when they do, I always ask why are they doing this to hear their stories. For me, it's education to see if I can prevent my man from cheating in the future. And all these folks are in vanilla marriages. I have only spoken to 2 dudes who are cheating on their subs who refuse to be subs anymore, but have kids so can't leave.

Greta75 -> RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? (12/10/2014 9:56:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GoddessManko but I feel like this is a way for us to "set ourselves apart" which is somewhat of a fallacy. much Okay, I got one more very simple straight forward analogy. People are willing to go with arrange marriages in a vanilla situation, because not much trust is required for a vanilla marriage. People marry strangers and still are able to live happily ever after in a vanilla setting. And yes, in my part of the world, this is still common even with well educated people, people get so busy with work, they have no time to date, that they just let their parents arrange their mate. They go on practical details to start a family nucleus. Seriously, it's blind faith in other people's choice because that's how non-threatening it is, to be in a vanilla marriage and clearly the level of trust needed is so little for it to function. But I think you will find it difficult to find anybody agreeing to D/S arranged marriage. It's not trying to set ourselves apart, to me, it's just reality of the relationship, that it requires deeper trust in that person to be doing something that could potentially hurt you, bondage, spanking play, even verbal humiliation play where emotional health may be affected, all have dangers, and you need to trust this person to do something that could be a crime in a non-consensual situation to have more control when executing something dangerous. Whereas in vanilla, it's as simple as don't dabble with things that could endanger your life, so no worries on that area.

sexyred1 -> RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? (12/10/2014 10:29:55 PM)
That is completely false. There is just as much trust needed in vanilla marriage as D/s. If you believe otherwise you are either naive or worse; you put D/s on a pedestal and think we are so different and special.

DaddySatyr -> RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? (12/10/2014 11:23:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterVenom13 Would you say that a D/s relationship and a Vanilla relationship are ultimately no different from each other? I mean when you break them down a few details may be different but the core values of both relationships types are the same like trust and respect. I ask because I know some people say a Vanilla relationship is different from a BDSM relationship but I've never really seen the difference. For me, you're mixing terms. Your title asks: "Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla?" Then, your first sentence is: "Would you say that a D/s relationship and a Vanilla relationship are ultimately no different from each other?" Then, you ask: "I ask because I know some people say a Vanilla relationship is different from a BDSM relationship but I've never really seen the difference." Well, as I said; FOR ME, we need to set the question straight. I see BDSM as an activity; not a dynamic. Again, for the reading-impaired, I want to stress: THIS IS MY OPINION. Having said that, I will take the question from the title and say: Yes. There's a huge difference between 'nilla and BDSM. I don't think I need to list examples. Now, if we tweak the question a bit: "Is there a difference between D/s and 'nilla?", I think there are some subtle differences, but essentially, there isn't much difference. In any romantic/intimate relationship, there need to be certain building blocks; respect, trust, honor, loyalty ... The requirements change, based upon personal choice. The only difference I see between the two is that in my (D/s) relationships, the lady understands that when we just can't come to agreement/compromise, the final say on any particular issue is mine. It's established, from the beginning. Michael

DerangedUnit -> RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? (12/10/2014 11:47:56 PM)
Most people involved in bdsm do it as a hobby and have a vanilla life on the side that most likely doesn't know what they do with their night life... someone likes whips, someone likes baseball... Even for those who are 24/7 like me there isn't much of a difference. At least in my case their isn't. And that's because people are people... if most people react to you a certain way than one variable probably isn't going to change much. In my case it's just easier to find the people I like within this subsection and every vanilla guy I've been with fell apart rather quickly.... the whining, and crying, and love me speeches, hitting me and throwing tantrums always start sooner. For any relationship to work it takes the right personality cocktail, one factor in the greater scheme of things wouldn't make much difference.

NorthernGent -> RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? (12/11/2014 10:47:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sexyred1 That is completely false. There is just as much trust needed in vanilla marriage as D/s. If you believe otherwise you are either naive or worse; you put D/s on a pedestal and think we are so different and special. SexyRed1, I don't think the above really follows. Yes, of course there is as much trust, although there is any relationship including your employer. There's a fundamental principle that underpins any relationship and that is that you're straight down the line, otherwise you'll (general you) will soon fall out with your partner, parents, employer, whomever. But, this in no way means that somehow vanilla relationships are the same. For a start, why are people here? And, it's not placing anyone on a pedestal. You (general you, again) can only speak of your experiences, granted, but there is a certain need, and that need depends upon personal taste; that draws people to BDSM: a need which can't be replicated elsewhere. In my view, the relationship is entirely different because of that need that that must be satisfied, and I would be willing to bet an inordinate amount of money that most people here realised that their need just can't be satisfied when conforming to the norm in relationships. My needs can't be met in what's termed a vanilla relationship. Some of them can of course, but, using one minute example, I need some order in my life and there just can't be a couple of dogs not quite sure of their place in the pack. I could get married tomorrow, well, that's implausible but you know what I mean; but what do I do in the event she's colouring the walls lime green and can't boil a pan of potatoes to save her life? We'd probably argue endlessly about next to nothing in the grand scheme of things, when in other circumstances we wouldn't need to because it would be a case of: "shape up, quickly, and show the walls some respect and give them a colour they deserve, this isn't open to debate by the way".

MariaB -> RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? (12/11/2014 11:19:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 I have only spoken to 2 dudes who are cheating on their subs who refuse to be subs anymore, but have kids so can't leave. So until their kids are grown up, they will simply cheat and no doubt spill their grievances to any submissive who's prepared pity them. A relationships is much more than dominance and submission. If Steve told me tomorrow that he couldn't lead this sort of lifestyle any more and wanted to pull completely away from it; whilst I may be disappointed, I'm not suddenly going to be dissatisfied with our relationship because we have so much more in our life this. If someone feels dissatisfied enough to cheat on their spouse because their spouse no longer felt submission, then I personally think that relationship was lacking in the first place. I may feel this way because I've been into this for a long time and if it were to suddenly stop I wouldn't feel that I've missed out. I would just think, it was good whilst it lasted and it was a great journey but there are lots of other great things in life to explore and I want to do that with the man I love so "vanilla"...bring it on.

NookieNotes -> RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? (12/11/2014 12:52:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent In my view, the relationship is entirely different because of that need that that must be satisfied, and I would be willing to bet an inordinate amount of money that most people here realised that their need just can't be satisfied when conforming to the norm in relationships. My needs can't be met in what's termed a vanilla relationship. Some of them can of course, but, using one minute example, I need some order in my life and there just can't be a couple of dogs not quite sure of their place in the pack. How is that different than a person in a vanilla relationship NEEDING poly? Or swinging? Or someone to share their love of running heiniously long stretches at a time? Aside from the D/s, the relationship foundations are the same. After all, this was the OP: quote: I mean when you break them down a few details may be different but the core values of both relationships types are the same like trust and respect.

NorthernGent -> RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? (12/11/2014 1:10:51 PM)
Fine, although the OP did ask: "would you say the relationships are no different?" And, I did try to say in a roundabout way that all relationships are built upon 'trust and respect'. I suppose any person thinking that the core elements of a relationship are trust and respect, and trust and respect alone, would view all relationships as fairly similar. Following on from this, you would have to ask yourself the question: is this true of BDSM? are trust and respect the only core elements of BDSM? and if so, what's the point of this message board and a 'BDSM community'? I personally think that there are other core elements of BDSM that render such a relationship very different to 'vanilla'.

NookieNotes -> RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? (12/11/2014 2:27:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent Following on from this, you would have to ask yourself the question: is this true of BDSM? are trust and respect the only core elements of BDSM? and if so, what's the point of this message board and a 'BDSM community'? The same point as a Christian community. Or vanilla gay community. Or an infertility support community. I would think. I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just seeing where this goes.

BecomingV -> RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? (12/11/2014 7:50:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent For a start, why are people here? The same people who are here are also on vanilla sites. Some seek love while others seek play partners while others want a one-time hookup. What I love most about the BDSM community is the emphasis on consent. As a feminist, I'd much prefer that vanilla society reject patriarchy and violence as an acceptable standard and relegate the supremacists to the D/s section of the BDSM community. I like the honesty in that. I like the clarity about relating in mutually satisfying ways, after negotiation and consent. In my utopia, we all know we relate as equals, except when someone has agreed to relate differently to one, specific person. Please note... I said nothing about abusers being acceptable anywhere! Ultimately, I'm here because BDSM attracts some of the most honest, accepting, open-minded people and I appreciate those qualities in others. Locally, I've seen heartwarming responses to a member in need. What these people's specific kinks are don't matter to me at all. I just like the people. :) I come to this site and attend local gatherings to learn techniques, to learn safety precautions and to meet others with similar interests. Those interests are largely illegal, so a BDSM site offers a place to discuss how to participate in the most pleasurable way while avoiding legal consequences. It's an option.

NookieNotes -> RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? (12/12/2014 3:10:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BecomingV Ultimately, I'm here because BDSM attracts some of the most honest, accepting, open-minded people and I appreciate those qualities in others. Locally, I've seen heartwarming responses to a member in need. Becoming V, I'm using your quote, but not necessarily in response to you. Rewriting it, could apply to any community (in different POVs): Ultimately, I'm here because Christianity attracts some of the most honest, accepting, open-minded people and I appreciate those qualities in others. Locally, I've seen heartwarming responses to a member in need. Ultimately, I'm here because AA attracts some of the most honest, accepting, open-minded people and I appreciate those qualities in others. Locally, I've seen heartwarming responses to a member in need. Ultimately, I'm here because the cycling community attracts some of the most honest, accepting, open-minded people and I appreciate those qualities in others. Locally, I've seen heartwarming responses to a member in need. Ultimately, I'm here because MENSA attracts some of the most honest, accepting, open-minded people and I appreciate those qualities in others. Locally, I've seen heartwarming responses to a member in need.

NorthernGent -> RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? (12/12/2014 4:35:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NookieNotes quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent Following on from this, you would have to ask yourself the question: is this true of BDSM? are trust and respect the only core elements of BDSM? and if so, what's the point of this message board and a 'BDSM community'? The same point as a Christian community. Or vanilla gay community. Or an infertility support community. I would think. I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just seeing where this goes. All communities are based upon some sort of standard, complete with norms and unwritten codes of behaviour and attitude, to which members conform. Using your example, why exactly have a Christian community? Probably two reasons: firstly, they believe that in part their values are not replicated outside of the community; secondly, they're proud of their values and want to cement this by through belonging to this community and all that that entails. As any definition of a community is adherence to set of norms within that community, then clearly there is something that sets the 'BDSM community' apart. The thing that we're all probably referring to but not mentioning is 'the dynamic', that oft-cited term that is strangely hitherto missing from this discussion. Somebody else, think it was Littleladybug, mentioned leadership, and I alluded to it with the 'dogs in the pack' analogy. Perhaps it's an experience thing. Perhaps there are people on this board who craft out a relationship where the dynamic is satisfied, but then we're getting outside of the realms of what is usually termed a 'vanilla relationship' anyway. It is undoubtedly not the case that because 'trust and respect' are inherent, or at least advisable, to 'vanilla' and BDSM relationships then they must be the same.

NorthernGent -> RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? (12/12/2014 4:49:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BecomingV quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent For a start, why are people here? The same people who are here are also on vanilla sites. Are they? I'm not, and I'd be willing to bet at least one other person posting on this thread isn't either. I would imagine that 'vanilla' relationships are merely part of the progression (general you) in your life and at some point the conclusion has been arrived at that 'vanilla' simply isn't enough. I would also dispute Maria B's comment. Yes, of course, if you love someone then you may not want to give that away for the sake of a BDSM type relationship. But, again, this doesn't mean the relationships are the same. It simply means that you're faced with a choice and perhaps that love for a person would be the over-riding determinant. quote: ORIGINAL: BecomingV Some seek love while others seek play partners while others want a one-time hookup. One-time hook up (I'm not American so not used to this expression, but I think I can gather what it means) and play partners aren't for me. But, again, this in no way means that the relationships are the same. It simply means that you've set your stall out on what matters to you (general you). Any relationship with no foreseeable prospect of love would not be for me. quote: ORIGINAL: BecomingV What I love most about the BDSM community is the emphasis on consent. I'd like to think 'vanilla' relationships also value consent, but I do see your point (to an extent). quote: ORIGINAL: BecomingV As a feminist, I'd much prefer that vanilla society reject patriarchy and violence as an acceptable standard and relegate the supremacists to the D/s section of the BDSM community. I like the honesty in that. I like the clarity about relating in mutually satisfying ways, after negotiation and consent. In my utopia, we all know we relate as equals, except when someone has agreed to relate differently to one, specific person. Well, I would certainly class myself as someone who in no way believes my partner is 'less equal' than me. Others would have to judge on whether or not this is mere egotism. I have read Simone de Beauvoir. An interesting woman with something very astute to say on the reason why some women behave as they do. Although she didn't do 'Feminism' any favours by then going and serving up women on a plate for her lover Sartre. For another discussion, I'd imagine. quote: ORIGINAL: BecomingV Please note... I said nothing about abusers being acceptable anywhere! Noted. I was not far off calling the polis for promotion of serial abuse (joking by the way).

NookieNotes -> RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? (12/12/2014 5:35:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent All communities are based upon some sort of standard, complete with norms and unwritten codes of behaviour and attitude, to which members conform. Using your example, why exactly have a Christian community? Probably two reasons: firstly, they believe that in part their values are not replicated outside of the community; secondly, they're proud of their values and want to cement this by through belonging to this community and all that that entails. Right. Looking at that from the outside, and perhaps interviewing those people on what makes their relationships work, aside from "A mutual faith in and interest in Christianity), I doubt you would come up with much that would set it apart from "vanilla" relationships. In fact, I'm guessing most people would not make the distinction at all. Christians are vanilla, and therefore the same. What about swingers? Are they vanilla? Or someo ther kind of relationship? Aside from their shared interests (and the rules, communication and protocol to go with them, not to mention lower divorce rates than the average), are they not a relationship? Vanilla or not? To me, that's what this is all about. I don't think BDSM or D/s relationships are MORE anything except kinky sex or power exchange, or whatever. In their basic form, they are simply relationships, with shared interests added on. They are no greater in trust, intimacy, longevity... anything. In my view.

NorthernGent -> RE: Is there really a difference between BDSM and Vanilla? (12/12/2014 5:49:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NookieNotes In their basic form, they are simply relationships, with shared interests added on. They are no greater in trust, intimacy, longevity... anything. In my view. I would have thought that would be a given, and few people would dispute this. That said, however, the OP asked: firstly, are these relationships no different?; secondly, are they underpinned by trust and respect? The answer to the first question is: clearly, yes, they are different. The answer to the second question is: well, if you believe that the core elements of a BDSM relationship are 'trust and respect' then of course they are no different in that respect. Which, brings us neatly back to my initial post, the one to which you responded; the problem with the question is that it considers only 'trust and respect' as values/virtues/needs within a BDSM relationship, and as such it's not a particularly good question and one that won't lead to a great deal of clarity. What has happened is that people have answered: yes, they're the same but they've followed the OP in basing this answer on 'trust and respect' I mean, if you don't 'trust and respect' your dog you won't have much of a relationship with it, but it doesn't make a relationship with a dog the same as a relationship with a human.

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