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Zonie63 -> RE: I HATE Rioting (12/4/2014 10:43:50 AM)
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ORIGINAL: kdsub
I believe all of this comes down to opposing ways of thinking. In many blacks, at least those still in economic straits, is the feeling that they are discriminated against because of their color. In many whites there is the feeling that blacks today have the same opportunities as they and with affirmative action even better routes to higher education. They think blacks need to stop using the race card every time there is a problem.
I didn't see it that way. It was the media who played up the racial issues to the hilt, as they usually do, since it attracts viewers. That's not to say that aren't dishonest people who use the race card disingenuously, but I read this more as a situation of The People vs. The State.
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The Brown killing was just the catalyst that brought these opposing ways of thinking to a flashpoint. I do believe there is truth in both ways of thinking and it would be great if this mess were to lead to understanding.
I agree with this. However, in addition to understanding, there also needs to be a certain flexibility and willingness to compromise, particularly on the part of the State. Even in this and similar threads on this topic, there seems to be a rather harsh, unyielding, uncompromising attitude on the part of those who are supporting/defending the actions of the police here. Peon touched upon it earlier with his post referencing the "Authoritarian Personality." That's what needs to be explained before any real understanding can be reached.
I've spoken to cops privately, and I've been told directly that establishing their "authority" is their top priority in any situation they encounter. They have to come down hard on anyone who gives them any lip or openly defies their authority. That's what seems to have been in play here, whereas the actual statutes the cop was purportedly enforcing were really of minor importance.
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The problem as I see it is the path the protesters choose to follow only enforces this way of thinking on both sides and will not bring people together in understanding.
Again, there are two sides to every issue. The way it looks to me, the protesters/rioters are frustrated, angry, and they don't know what else to do. They're not getting any reassurances or words of encouragement from their elected officials. The cops behave like an occupying army. The local government ostensibly wants to nickel and dime the people to death, squeezing them for everything they can get. The business community offers nothing but high prices, low wages, and few jobs.
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Whites see a petty criminal that attacked a police officer and although tragic got what was coming to him.
Well, I'm white, and I don't see that at all. I might see that a petty criminal attacked a police officer, but to say he "got what was coming to him" is a matter of opinion and not necessarily a perspective shared by other whites.
It should also be noted that not every white person has had consistently positive encounters with the police. We were all 18 once upon a time, too, and not all of us were angels in our youth. Many whites also come from poor and lower class backgrounds and might also feel similarly about the police and their role in society and their own lives.
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They cannot see why blacks continue to use this boy as a rallying point when the evidence clearly exonerates the policeman.
The mistake you're making here is that you believe that the entire case hinges on whether or not the policeman in question was guilty of a crime. You seem to think that that closes the case and ends the matter, but there's more to this than just that.
And it's not all that clear that the policeman has been exonerated. Other legal experts have been quite critical of the prosecutor and how this matter was handled.
That aside, even if he is considered "not guilty" insomuch as the letter of the law is concerned, there's still the matter of whether he could have handled the situation differently so that it would not have provoked violence in the first place. The power is in the hands of the cop to make or break a situation like that, as many cops can peacefully apprehend suspects who go along quietly, while there are others who seem to get so amped up that they want to provoke a violent confrontation. The law actually provides a great deal of leeway and discretionary power to the cops, and that may be why Wilson is considered "exonerated," but then one might question whether the law is correct to give that much power to the cops. Perhaps cops need to have their wings clipped and restrained and monitored more closely by higher civilian authorities.
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Many see the protests misplaced and see only the burning and looting and not see the genuine protesting by lawful citizens that feel marginalized in America today.
The sad thing is, the only thing that gets people's attention is the burning and looting. Peaceful protests might get some attention and might bring about some change. But it only seems to go so far, and only if they're large enough over a consistently lengthy period of time, such as the Civil Rights and anti-war protests of the 1960s. Some protests were actually quite huge, and in multiple cities across the country, and even then, it took years and years before anyone in power took it seriously enough to bring about change.
Even to this very day, we still seem to be stuck in many of the same issues and points of contention.
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Blacks, in this case, see a different America than whites. They see poor schools…constant harassment by police…unfair courts…they do not feel they are represented in government or police. All valid points and worth protests.
Whites actually see many of these same things as well. I don't think our views of America are all that different, even if they may be from different angles and different perspectives.
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But they could not have chosen worse examples to rally behind, at least as far as whites are concerned. First a boy that did bully a store clerk… then a boy already under house arrest for a gun charge…and already shot a 15 year old…l and then tried to shoot a police officer before being killed. Then they failed to control the criminal element in their protests that burned down Ferguson and looted.
I don't deny what the young man did prior to the incident in question. I don't think anyone has denied that. No one is saying that this kid is an angel. However, in my own experience, I've encountered people who have run afoul of the law from time to time. I'm not condoning or justifying any criminal activity, although when looking at the whole person, there might be more than what might show up on an arrest record. Was he mentally ill? Was there a chance he might have turned his life around with the right guidance and assistance? He was only 18, so it seems like such a tragic waste.
I know a lot of people who are productive members of society today but might have been reckless, rebellious, and even criminal in their younger days. But they eventually changed and turned their lives around. However, I also recognize that some may not be able to ever do that, for whatever reason. But...do they deserve to be killed? Could the police officer have approached the situation differently so as to defuse any potential confrontations before they happen? Was there another way that this could have been handled that wouldn't have led to loss of life?
I don't think that anyone is rallying around this, but I think that people to have the right to ask these kinds of questions and demand clear, honest answers from their government. I'm not even sure if putting the police officer in the hot seat is particularly helpful, since it makes it look like it's all due to "one bad apple" when the actual problem may be higher up the chain of command. They're not rallying around a criminal, but they're obviously quite pissed off about being lied to.
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I just do not see continued black protests using these two examples as rallying points succeeding in any meaningful change. I would hope to see leaders in the black community step up and lead these demonstrations away from the Brown killing and direct them to the real problems that need to be addressed. I think if that happens there WILL be real change. Most Americans of all colors want equality and equal opportunity. Many whites just do not see what blacks see and the same for blacks… We do need real conversations without the confrontations of the last few months.
Butch
I would agree that these protests will not likely bring about any great changes to speak of, especially since general public opinion seems somewhat divided over the issues in question. The division and polarization in politics have contributed to much of the gridlock and tend to be a barrier towards any real change. But that's part of the problem with being rigid and intransigent; when both sides are too stubborn and refuse to compromise, then it can't possibly lead to anything good.
I don't think anyone will forget this incident, but eventually, the anger will subside to some extent and people will get on with their lives. We're not seeing the "Fall of Rome" or anything like that. Measured on a global or historical scale, this is really small potatoes, just a blip among many (perhaps too many, which is another point of concern). But as a society, we still need to look at this and try to find better ways of handling situations so that we can reduce the chance of violence in the future. I think we all have a shared interest in wanting to avoid mayhem, violence, and upheaval. I don't wish to see social or political polarization lead to the kind of chaos which has affected other nations severely.
I believe we must also be mindful of how this is perceived on an international scale, since our system of global alliances and economic partners seems to be in a state of flux at the moment. There are some unsavory factions in this world who would just love the opportunity to undermine and destabilize America from within, so we need to shore up our vulnerabilities in this regard. As a country, we're some fractured and divided in some ways, and we seem to have lost our sense of direction at some point. Eventually, we're going to have take a long honest look at ourselves and ask "What the fuck has happened to us?"
I've tried to be a patriotic citizen and I still have a great love for America. A lot of people from both sides of the spectrum seem to feel that we're all doomed, the country is going down the tubes or to hell in a handbasket. "What's this country coming to?" is a phrase I've heard all my life. But I still try to be somewhat optimistic, although there does seem to be a lot of stupidity in this country which can be quite exasperating. There are still many good things about this country, and I actually think that many of our current problems could be more easily resolved if various factions could be more flexible and willing to compromise. But some people are so stubborn and act like they're driving a freight train at another freight train coming at full speed from the opposite direction.
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