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RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 12/3/2014 7:06:42 PM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline 		I wish all police wore body cameras that couldn't be turned off.

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(in reply to BamaD)
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RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 12/3/2014 7:18:43 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

but there was no choke hold, a headlock yes but not a choke hold


Sure looks like a choke hold to me Bama... But I don't understand.. why resist and force the officers to go that far? But come on... five men and one still has to choke him... I don't understand that any more than why Wilson could not shoot the legs out from under Brown.






The first cop attacked without cause.
Remember Brown was wounded several times before the lethal shots, and shooting a leg out from under someone is not as easy as it looks in the movies.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 12/3/2014 7:26:54 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I don't think Marini wants this thread to head in that direction Bama... I know it is not easy... but I could do it... or at least try. It sure seems like a perfect storm of controversy.

Butch

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 12/3/2014 7:28:40 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I don't think Marini wants this thread to head in that direction Bama... I know it is not easy... but I could do it... or at least try. It sure seems like a perfect storm of controversy.

Butch

agreed

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 12/3/2014 7:36:04 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

I wish all police wore body cameras that couldn't be turned off.


Politicians too

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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 12/3/2014 7:42:44 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline 		Just talked to a family member that is a lawyer.

Several points, in addition to the "chokehold"

1. The "crime" that Mr. Gardner was accused of committing {selling cigarettes illegally} is not even considered a misdemeaner. She said it is the legal equivalent of some traffic offenses.


2. The fact that they let him lie there and did not immediately get medical care, AND let a man of that size lay on his back, instead of placing him on his side sealed his fate.

It just goes on and on.

< Message edited by Marini -- 12/3/2014 7:45:58 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 12/3/2014 7:46:17 PM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline 		The only person the grand jury DID indict- is the cameraman who filmed this scene. Lets think on that for a minute...

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 12/3/2014 7:47:06 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline 		thanks butch, we have plenty of threads going for that.

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 12/3/2014 7:51:32 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

I wish all police wore body cameras that couldn't be turned off.


You hit the nail on the head camille!
As much as I hate living in a police state, camera's on every corner {like in D.C.} and cops HAVING to wear them, and have them in their car's etc. can actually work FOR you!
A friend mentioned you can't scratch your ass in D.C. and not expect it to be on camera.

< Message edited by Marini -- 12/3/2014 7:54:53 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to camille65)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 12/3/2014 7:59:09 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

The only person the grand jury DID indict- is the cameraman who filmed this scene. Lets think on that for a minute...

You have to be kidding.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to shiftyw)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 12/3/2014 8:01:28 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Just talked to a family member that is a lawyer.

Several points, in addition to the "chokehold"

1. The "crime" that Mr. Gardner was accused of committing {selling cigarettes illegally} is not even considered a misdemeaner. She said it is the legal equivalent of some traffic offenses.


2. The fact that they let him lie there and did not immediately get medical care, AND let a man of that size lay on his back, instead of placing him on his side sealed his fate.

It just goes on and on.

Yes these are factors. I am hard pressed to understand why the other four cops weren't indicted.
Does anyone know if the PD has taken disciplinary action?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 12/3/2014 8:03:45 PM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline 		Not kidding: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/03/ramsey-orta-indictment-eric-garner_n_6264746.html

ETA: I will admit- it was allegedly unrelated. But c'mon...if HE had committed a crime- the cop in this case did also.

< Message edited by shiftyw -- 12/3/2014 8:05:25 PM >

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 12/3/2014 8:04:59 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		In most cases i would say the camera would be for the police officers safety... If i were one i would want to wear one...with good sound. Too many times the police are accused of wrong doing they do not commit.. Good camera and sound would end that. I don't understand the resistance of the rank and file.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 12/3/2014 8:07:44 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Just talked to a family member that is a lawyer.

Several points, in addition to the "chokehold"

1. The "crime" that Mr. Gardner was accused of committing {selling cigarettes illegally} is not even considered a misdemeaner. She said it is the legal equivalent of some traffic offenses.


2. The fact that they let him lie there and did not immediately get medical care, AND let a man of that size lay on his back, instead of placing him on his side sealed his fate.

It just goes on and on.

Yes these are factors. I am hard pressed to understand why the other four cops weren't indicted.
Does anyone know if the PD has taken disciplinary action?


I have no idea, beyond the "investigations" of the Gardner case.
I like Mayor De Blasio..... hummmm

< Message edited by Marini -- 12/3/2014 8:08:11 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 12/3/2014 8:09:43 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

In most cases i would say the camera would be for the police officers safety... If i were one i would want to wear one...with good sound. Too many times the police are accused of wrong doing they do not commit.. Good camera and sound would end that. I don't understand the resistance of the rank and file.

Butch


Hummm, now WHY would many of the rank and file, not WANT cameras and sound all over the place?
Might make it harder to abuse "suspects", shoot them in the back, shoot unarmed citizens, plant drugs, plant weapons, put people in choke holds, "make up" stories, I could go on.

< Message edited by Marini -- 12/3/2014 8:12:57 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 12/3/2014 8:17:25 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Might make it harder to abuse "suspects", shoot them in the back, shoot unarmed citizens, plant drugs, plant weapons, "make up" stories, I could go on.


That too... but i am talking about the 500,000 police officers who are not criminals and need protection from false accusations.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 12/3/2014 8:32:12 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

In most cases i would say the camera would be for the police officers safety... If i were one i would want to wear one...with good sound. Too many times the police are accused of wrong doing they do not commit.. Good camera and sound would end that. I don't understand the resistance of the rank and file.

Butch

We had a case down here a few years back were there were (peaceful) protests and demands for the officer to be tried for murder even after the camera completely verified his version of events.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 12/3/2014 8:34:11 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

In most cases i would say the camera would be for the police officers safety... If i were one i would want to wear one...with good sound. Too many times the police are accused of wrong doing they do not commit.. Good camera and sound would end that. I don't understand the resistance of the rank and file.

Butch


Hummm, now WHY would many of the rank and file, not WANT cameras and sound all over the place?
Might make it harder to abuse "suspects", shoot them in the back, shoot unarmed citizens, plant drugs, plant weapons, put people in choke holds, "make up" stories, I could go on.

Or they just don't like people watching over their shoulders.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 12/3/2014 8:35:55 PM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline 		And there was video in this case also...and no indictment here either: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/09/25/351422552/grand-jury-wont-indict-officers-in-ohio-wal-mart-shooting

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 12/4/2014 12:58:56 AM   
ThePrincessKali


Posts: 424
Joined: 9/19/2012
Status: offline 		I experienced a lot of racism growing up, I'm bi-racial and grew up in an essentially all Caucasian town. It was drilled into my head that I was worth less than my white peers while in school. I was harassed, bullied, and alienated from the time I was nine or ten until I graduated high school. When I was in junior high my family was still going to church. I went to the same church as everyone else in town yet in sixth grade my teacher asked me if I celebrated Kwanza, I was banned from the only movie theater in town bc my friends and I once bought tickets to a PG-13 movie and snuck into see Jackass when I was 13. The owner of the theater said all my friends could go home but I was banned for life. So to say it makes me sad is an understatement. I am devastated. After going through such adversity growing up and coming to self acceptance as an adult, the fact that there are still those out there who feel that my life is worth less than someone who's 100% white is heartbreaking.

But on an more uplifting note I attended a protest here in CA and the crowd was a mix of all races. I was glad to see that.

(in reply to shiftyw)
Profile   Post #: 40
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