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RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 12/9/2014 12:03:10 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThePrincessKali

...the fact that there are still those out there who feel that my life is worth less than someone who's 100% white is heartbreaking.


Thats something of a racist comment

As if whites are the only ones on the planet who are capable of racist thoughts


Pssst. . .

Don't tell her that there are about a billion people that think her life is worth less because she is not Muslim. I doubt that she could weather the shock.

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 12/9/2014 12:08:09 PM   
GoddessManko


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

Pssst. . .

Don't tell her that there are about a billion people that think her life is worth less because she is not Muslim. I doubt that she could weather the shock.


I have befriended both jews and muslims and though they are misunderstood I will happily state your thoughts are incorrect so you can breathe a sigh of relief in such regard. Hezbollah only has about 10k members due to poverty and political disenfranshisement, not "beliefs". So there are that many other muslims who live peacefully in Lebanon, in comparison to overall population, they are a tiny faction but still a danger as seen with bombings in Beirut.

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The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

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Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 12/13/2014 9:21:33 AM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline 		A very peaceful march is underway in Washington D.C.
It is a march against police violence.

Already something good has come of the coverage, news, marches, etc.

Senate has passes a bill to investigate the deaths of people held in custody.
We have a long way to go, but this is some progress.

The Hill- Police Oversight bill

< Message edited by Marini -- 12/13/2014 9:22:54 AM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 12/13/2014 11:45:31 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 12/13/2014 11:48:46 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThePrincessKali

...the fact that there are still those out there who feel that my life is worth less than someone who's 100% white is heartbreaking.


Thats something of a racist comment

As if whites are the only ones on the planet who are capable of racist thoughts


God that was feeble, Sanity.

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http://www.domme-chronicles.com


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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 12/13/2014 2:49:11 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


I won't go into a big, long, laundry list of why I think this, briefly; after viewing the video (many times), no matter what spin the NYPD wants to put on it, now, the cop was out of policy. Being out of policy means that what he did was illegal.

Dress it up, all you want, it was a choke hold and the cop skipped a couple of steps (based upon what I know/common sense) and that makes him at fault.

This is one of those rare instances where we have about as much video as we need to remove all doubt.

I'll be wearing my "I Can't Breath" t-shirt for a while.



Michael

I said from the beginning that the cop was wrong, premature and excessive force. Don't pretend that I am siding with the cop.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 12/13/2014 2:59:58 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I won't go into a big, long, laundry list of why I think this, briefly; after viewing the video (many times), no matter what spin the NYPD wants to put on it, now, the cop was out of policy. Being out of policy means that what he did was illegal.

Dress it up, all you want, it was a choke hold and the cop skipped a couple of steps (based upon what I know/common sense) and that makes him at fault.

This is one of those rare instances where we have about as much video as we need to remove all doubt.

I'll be wearing my "I Can't Breath" t-shirt for a while.



Michael


I said from the beginning that the cop was wrong, premature and excessive force. Don't pretend that I am siding with the cop.



Dude? I wasn't "pretending" you said anything . I just happened to post after you did.



Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 12/13/2014 3:06:55 PM >

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Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 12/13/2014 3:22:20 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		I have a few observations about this incident, and please correct me if my information is wrong.

(1) Eric Gardner was big and weighted 350 LBS. He had been arrested by the police some 30 times before this last arrest. He resisted being arrested.

(2) If you resist being arrested, you are putting your life at risk, and this seems 2x more true if you are black.

(3) While in the choke hold, he said "I can't breath" 11 (Eleven) times before he died. That is just startling.

(4) All this took place over the sale of illegal cigarettes.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 12/13/2014 3:23:32 PM >

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 12/13/2014 3:28:47 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I won't go into a big, long, laundry list of why I think this, briefly; after viewing the video (many times), no matter what spin the NYPD wants to put on it, now, the cop was out of policy. Being out of policy means that what he did was illegal.

Dress it up, all you want, it was a choke hold and the cop skipped a couple of steps (based upon what I know/common sense) and that makes him at fault.

This is one of those rare instances where we have about as much video as we need to remove all doubt.

I'll be wearing my "I Can't Breath" t-shirt for a while.



Michael


I said from the beginning that the cop was wrong, premature and excessive force. Don't pretend that I am siding with the cop.



Dude? I wasn't "pretending" you said anything . I just happened to post after you did.



Michael

Ok then, no problem. As you know I have frequently had people berate me for saying the exact opposite of what I actually said. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 12/13/2014 3:48:47 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I have a few observations about this incident, and please correct me if my information is wrong.

(1) Eric Gardner was big and weighted 350 LBS. He had been arrested by the police some 30 times before this last arrest. He resisted being arrested.

(2) If you resist being arrested, you are putting your life at risk, and this seems 2x more true if you are black.

(3) While in the choke hold, he said "I can't breath" 11 (Eleven) times before he died. That is just startling.

(4) All this took place over the sale of illegal cigarettes.


cloudboy

Could you not also say:

(1) Don't break the law... if you do... don't resist arrest.

(2) Don't resist arrest

(3) Don't resist arrest... and I don't know about you but I have been in a true choke hold... I know how to put one on and how to kill with it... and if i were to put one on you... you could not say I can't breath...... let alone 11 times while YOU RESIST arrest... All you could do is wait the few seconds until unconsciousness and death... not minutes or hours later.

(4) Don't break the law... the business owners in the area were complaining... the police had no choice.

Now for the police...

(1) Could you really not spend a little more time and be less aggressive and talk this man into the station?

(2) Did it really take 5 men and a head lock that could still choke him enough to bring on the asthma attack?

(3) Why, if he had been arrested 30 times, was he allowed back on the streets?

(4) Why not be as open as possible when these tragedies happen and have a civilian review board with all the information available?

To us... why are we so quick to judge the actions of police and defend criminals? Why when through investigations are made and the circumstances revealed does this evidence not change our minds...One way or the other.

Butch


< Message edited by kdsub -- 12/13/2014 4:45:17 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 12/13/2014 8:37:27 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
What's pathetic about this happening over cigarettes is that the only element that made them illegal was the fact that they weren't being sold by the pack.

Hang with me and I'll make a point. I promise.

I know New York City. I grew up there. I will admit that Staten Island is a bit of a departure from the rest of the city but it is still New York City (barely).

Here's the deal: You'd be hard-pressed to find a small corner store (Bodega) in NYC that doesn't sell "loosies" (cigarettes sold, individually).

I have heard reports that this horrific incident arose because the police were called (numerous times) to alert them to Mr. Gardner selling loosies.

So, my question is: Gee, I wonder who called the cops? What about (whichever) the store owner that called merited special attention any more than the call being placed in the "We'll get to it after the next Ice Age" file?

If the little stores weren't also selling loosies, Mr. Gardner wouldn't have been a threat to their business because if you can afford the $9.00 per pack for a full pack, you're not going to pay the cost of loosies (usually 75¢ to $1 per cigarette).

Mr. Gardner was a guy, trying to get by doing whatever he could to make a buck. Yes, he was breaking the law but, I wouldn't even call this a "quality of life" crime. I think the NYPD got duped into being the "muscle" for a Bodega owner and that's what got Mr. Gardner, ultimately, killed.



Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 12/13/2014 9:17:58 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


What's pathetic about this happening over cigarettes is that the only element that made them illegal was the fact that they weren't being sold by the pack.

Hang with me and I'll make a point. I promise.

I know New York City. I grew up there. I will admit that Staten Island is a bit of a departure from the rest of the city but it is still New York City (barely).

Here's the deal: You'd be hard-pressed to find a small corner store (Bodega) in NYC that doesn't sell "loosies" (cigarettes sold, individually).

I have heard reports that this horrific incident arose because the police were called (numerous times) to alert them to Mr. Gardner selling loosies.

So, my question is: Gee, I wonder who called the cops? What about (whichever) the store owner that called merited special attention any more than the call being placed in the "We'll get to it after the next Ice Age" file?

If the little stores weren't also selling loosies, Mr. Gardner wouldn't have been a threat to their business because if you can afford the $9.00 per pack for a full pack, you're not going to pay the cost of loosies (usually 75¢ to $1 per cigarette).

Mr. Gardner was a guy, trying to get by doing whatever he could to make a buck. Yes, he was breaking the law but, I wouldn't even call this a "quality of life" crime. I think the NYPD got duped into being the "muscle" for a Bodega owner and that's what got Mr. Gardner, ultimately, killed.



Michael

Yes I agree this was totally unnecessary. These kinds of bs laws assure an increase in negative interaction between the police and the civilian population. This in turn increases the level of antagonism. And that leads to stupid situations like this. This time a cop "jumped the gun" and resorted to unnecessary violence over a very minor crime, which as you say, should never have been a crime in the first place. Very often it is the other way around. Laws like this only aggravate peoples inherent dislike of the police. Like the military they are popular when they stop someone who is after you but God help them if the guy they stop was no threat to you (the generic you not anyone in particular).

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 7/14/2015 10:06:29 PM   
sloguy02246


Posts: 534
Joined: 11/5/2011
Status: offline 		FR

Read in the Chicago Tribune today that Eric Gardner's family has agreed to a settlement with the city of New York over his death for 5.9 million dollars.

They had originally asked for 75 million dollars.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 7/15/2015 10:00:47 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Nm

< Message edited by kdsub -- 7/15/2015 10:12:20 AM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 7/15/2015 10:13:18 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

I have a few observations about this incident, and please correct me if my information is wrong.

(1) Eric Gardner was big and weighted 350 LBS. He had been arrested by the police some 30 times before this last arrest. He resisted being arrested.

(2) If you resist being arrested, you are putting your life at risk, and this seems 2x more true if you are black.

(3) While in the choke hold, he said "I can't breath" 11 (Eleven) times before he died. That is just startling.

(4) All this took place over the sale of illegal cigarettes.


cloudboy

Could you not also say:

(1) Don't break the law... if you do... don't resist arrest.

(2) Don't resist arrest

(3) Don't resist arrest... and I don't know about you but I have been in a true choke hold... I know how to put one on and how to kill with it... and if i were to put one on you... you could not say I can't breath...... let alone 11 times while YOU RESIST arrest... All you could do is wait the few seconds until unconsciousness and death... not minutes or hours later.

(4) Don't break the law... the business owners in the area were complaining... the police had no choice.

Now for the police...

(1) Could you really not spend a little more time and be less aggressive and talk this man into the station?

(2) Did it really take 5 men and a head lock that could still choke him enough to bring on the asthma attack?

(3) Why, if he had been arrested 30 times, was he allowed back on the streets?

(4) Why not be as open as possible when these tragedies happen and have a civilian review board with all the information available?

To us... why are we so quick to judge the actions of police and defend criminals? Why when through investigations are made and the circumstances revealed does this evidence not change our minds...One way or the other.

Butch



An easy solution to this is to quit using tax laws to force people to behave the way politicians and bureaucrats want them to

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 7/15/2015 10:54:50 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

I have a few observations about this incident, and please correct me if my information is wrong.

(1) Eric Gardner was big and weighted 350 LBS. He had been arrested by the police some 30 times before this last arrest. He resisted being arrested.

(2) If you resist being arrested, you are putting your life at risk, and this seems 2x more true if you are black.

(3) While in the choke hold, he said "I can't breath" 11 (Eleven) times before he died. That is just startling.

(4) All this took place over the sale of illegal cigarettes.


cloudboy

Could you not also say:

(1) Don't break the law... if you do... don't resist arrest.

(2) Don't resist arrest

(3) Don't resist arrest... and I don't know about you but I have been in a true choke hold... I know how to put one on and how to kill with it... and if i were to put one on you... you could not say I can't breath...... let alone 11 times while YOU RESIST arrest... All you could do is wait the few seconds until unconsciousness and death... not minutes or hours later.

(4) Don't break the law... the business owners in the area were complaining... the police had no choice.

Now for the police...

(1) Could you really not spend a little more time and be less aggressive and talk this man into the station?

(2) Did it really take 5 men and a head lock that could still choke him enough to bring on the asthma attack?

(3) Why, if he had been arrested 30 times, was he allowed back on the streets?

(4) Why not be as open as possible when these tragedies happen and have a civilian review board with all the information available?

To us... why are we so quick to judge the actions of police and defend criminals? Why when through investigations are made and the circumstances revealed does this evidence not change our minds...One way or the other.

Butch



An easy solution to this is to quit using tax laws to force people to behave the way politicians and bureaucrats want them to

The more control the government tries to control the details of peoples lives the more often this sort of thing will happen.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 7/15/2015 6:43:07 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sloguy02246

FR

Read in the Chicago Tribune today that Eric Gardner's family has agreed to a settlement with the city of New York over his death for 5.9 million dollars.

They had originally asked for 75 million dollars.


Based on how the late Mr.Gardner was MIStreated, and choked by the NYPD, I think that this is a somewhat reasonable settlement.
I am glad they at least got 5.9 million, at least half will probably go to the lawyers.

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to sloguy02246)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 7/15/2015 7:37:31 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
Status: offline
quote:

An unarmed man that says he can't breathe?
Do you ever think about the "situations" that are not video taped and front and center in the news?


I'm very sad he is dead. I do not hold the police responsible as they were doing their job. Simply crying out that you cannot breath is something the police encounter at least half the time they must restrain someone and he could not breath not because of the police but for other reasons. Should we restrain the police from doing their job we will no longer have that protection. So while we are all saddened at his death it could have been avoided if he had obeyed lawful orders. We all must do that because the police are risking their lives every minute they are on duty and when they order us to do something the smartest and most responsible thing to do is to obey and then if we need to resist then do it later with a lawyer, not by disobeying lawful orders and then causing them to restrain us and then when that happens then things can get dangerous and we cannot blame the police when that happens, we have to blame the person who disobeyed the order. I know many of you don't want to hear this but I am afraid it is what it is even if we all wish it had happened differently. I also suggest something else that will not make me popular with some of you, that is the DA decided based on the facts rather than emotions, even though those emotions are natural. You also must remember these police are not monsters but they do deal with monsters every day and if you disobey an order then you might be one in their mind and many times they are correct.

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 7/15/2015 7:41:06 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: sloguy02246

FR

Read in the Chicago Tribune today that Eric Gardner's family has agreed to a settlement with the city of New York over his death for 5.9 million dollars.

They had originally asked for 75 million dollars.


Based on how the late Mr.Gardner was MIStreated, and choked by the NYPD, I think that this is a somewhat reasonable settlement.
I am glad they at least got 5.9 million, at least half will probably go to the lawyers.


I don't believe he was miss-treated. I believe the settlement will be a political and not a moral or legal decision.

I am also concerned it will lead to baiting the police by those who are looking to make the bucks. It is damaging to that thin blue line we have. It is damaging to us all.

< Message edited by Arturas -- 7/15/2015 7:43:35 PM >

_____________________________

"We master Our world."

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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Saddened by Eric Gardner verdict - 7/15/2015 10:22:30 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: sloguy02246

FR

Read in the Chicago Tribune today that Eric Gardner's family has agreed to a settlement with the city of New York over his death for 5.9 million dollars.

They had originally asked for 75 million dollars.


Based on how the late Mr.Gardner was MIStreated, and choked by the NYPD, I think that this is a somewhat reasonable settlement.
I am glad they at least got 5.9 million, at least half will probably go to the lawyers.


I don't believe he was miss-treated. I believe the settlement will be a political and not a moral or legal decision.

I am also concerned it will lead to baiting the police by those who are looking to make the bucks. It is damaging to that thin blue line we have. It is damaging to us all.

I do believe there was misconduct on the part of at least one officer.
I also believe that this was caused by NYC tying to micro-manage it's population.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 80
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