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Does this make any difference or.....? - 12/16/2014 6:00:48 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		.....is the Russian consumer fucked ? Funny how the western banking cartel can win this war but can't help their own people finance businesses. HERE

Well at least we in the west can buy 'Russian' cheap. This is what happens when currencies have no basis in value except the confidence in the labor that backs it...like the ever-so-stubborn US dollar.
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RE: Does this make any difference or.....? - 12/16/2014 6:58:11 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline 		http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-12-15/russia-increases-key-interest-rate-to-17-to-stem-ruble-decline.html

Russia raised their interest rate from 10 something to 17% today. That is generally not a good sign. Having oil below $100 a barrel appears to be really hurting them. The falling oil price and the Ukrainian mess has effectively gut shot their economy.

They will shortly have to put into place capital controls to keep their economy from completely self destructing due to capital flight and everyone who can fleeing the country.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
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RE: Does this make any difference or.....? - 12/16/2014 8:27:48 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

.....is the Russian consumer fucked ? Funny how the western banking cartel can win this war but can't help their own people finance businesses. HERE

Well at least we in the west can buy 'Russian' cheap. This is what happens when currencies have no basis in value except the confidence in the labor that backs it...like the ever-so-stubborn US dollar.

We trade very little with Russia, so not much effect here.

But it's also about the sanctions and the low price of oil (Russia's economy is 2/3 oil).

Not sure how you feel sanctions would "help people finance their businesses" here.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
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RE: Does this make any difference or.....? - 12/16/2014 8:50:29 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		There is a ground breaking book out now entitled Putin's Kleptocracy. The reviews offer a pretty chilling portrait of Russia. You cannot grow any semblance of a healthy economy in a corrupt, crime ridden, Kleptocracy. What was most startling to me was how high ranking KGB and Communist officers planned for a post USSR coup as early as the 80s by stealing money from the state, hiding it overseas, and the using it to buy up state assets to gain control of the political economy. After that they have simply used advanced KGB tactics (control of the media, crackdown on dissent, arbitrary enforcement of laws against adversaries) to control the population.

To me the Republican party is similar in a plutocratic sense (witness the latest Wall Street Giveaway in the budget), expansion of campaign contribution limits, and how Citigroup wrote the new regulatory law allowing FDIC insured banks to invest in speculative derivatives. The genius is getting folks like Sanity, Creative D, the Heretic cheering the measures... that is no small trick.

Regular people aew completely pushed aside and don't even have access to the system.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 12/16/2014 8:51:49 PM >

(in reply to MrRodgers)
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RE: Does this make any difference or.....? - 12/16/2014 9:55:48 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

There is a ground breaking book out now entitled Putin's Kleptocracy. The reviews offer a pretty chilling portrait of Russia. You cannot grow any semblance of a healthy economy in a corrupt, crime ridden, Kleptocracy. What was most startling to me was how high ranking KGB and Communist officers planned for a post USSR coup as early as the 80s by stealing money from the state, hiding it overseas, and the using it to buy up state assets to gain control of the political economy. After that they have simply used advanced KGB tactics (control of the media, crackdown on dissent, arbitrary enforcement of laws against adversaries) to control the population.

To me the Republican party is similar in a plutocratic sense (witness the latest Wall Street Giveaway in the budget), expansion of campaign contribution limits, and how Citigroup wrote the new regulatory law allowing FDIC insured banks to invest in speculative derivatives. The genius is getting folks like Sanity, Creative D, the Heretic cheering the measures... that is no small trick.

Regular people aew completely pushed aside and don't even have access to the system.
God, you are such a left loon.

Do you really think you have no access to the "system"? When was the last time you or ANY of your friends were jailed for disagreeing with the government? Oh wait...the government, especially the man in charge, is doing exactly what you like...redistributing wealth (aka taking from those who have it, earned or inherited) and giving it to those who do nothing to earn it, over-regulating everything, trying to control your life more with those new regulations and laws, etc. A lot like Putin.

(in reply to cloudboy)
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RE: Does this make any difference or.....? - 12/17/2014 1:42:13 AM   
DaNewAgeViking


Posts: 1009
Joined: 4/29/2004
Status: offline 		Whatever you're smoking, it ought to be illegal!

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
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RE: Does this make any difference or.....? - 12/17/2014 5:17:45 AM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
When was the last time you or ANY of your friends were jailed for disagreeing with the government?


Technically, people aren't jailed for "disagreeing with the government," not even in the old Soviet Union. It would usually involve some sort "legitimate" charge, even if the evidence may be fabricated. That's why any high profile prosecution of anyone known to buck up against the establishment has to be taken with a grain of salt, even in this country.



(in reply to CreativeDominant)
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RE: Does this make any difference or.....? - 12/17/2014 6:26:16 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

There is a ground breaking book out now entitled Putin's Kleptocracy. The reviews offer a pretty chilling portrait of Russia. You cannot grow any semblance of a healthy economy in a corrupt, crime ridden, Kleptocracy. What was most startling to me was how high ranking KGB and Communist officers planned for a post USSR coup as early as the 80s by stealing money from the state, hiding it overseas, and the using it to buy up state assets to gain control of the political economy. After that they have simply used advanced KGB tactics (control of the media, crackdown on dissent, arbitrary enforcement of laws against adversaries) to control the population.

To me the Republican party is similar in a plutocratic sense (witness the latest Wall Street Giveaway in the budget), expansion of campaign contribution limits, and how Citigroup wrote the new regulatory law allowing FDIC insured banks to invest in speculative derivatives. The genius is getting folks like Sanity, Creative D, the Heretic cheering the measures... that is no small trick.

Regular people aew completely pushed aside and don't even have access to the system.
God, you are such a left loon.

Do you really think you have no access to the "system"? When was the last time you or ANY of your friends were jailed for disagreeing with the government? Oh wait...the government, especially the man in charge, is doing exactly what you like...redistributing wealth (aka taking from those who have it, earned or inherited) and giving it to those who do nothing to earn it, over-regulating everything, trying to control your life more with those new regulations and laws, etc. A lot like Putin.


God, you are such a right loon.

Seriously? Like Putin? You should visit Russia and live there a while.

"over-regulating everything?" Are you made of straw?

If you want to debate, great. But start from reality.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Does this make any difference or.....? - 12/17/2014 6:41:49 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Zonie just curious .... What establishment prosecution here needs to be taken wih a grain of salt?

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Zonie63)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Does this make any difference or.....? - 12/17/2014 7:24:18 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

There is a ground breaking book out now entitled Putin's Kleptocracy. The reviews offer a pretty chilling portrait of Russia. You cannot grow any semblance of a healthy economy in a corrupt, crime ridden, Kleptocracy. What was most startling to me was how high ranking KGB and Communist officers planned for a post USSR coup as early as the 80s by stealing money from the state, hiding it overseas, and the using it to buy up state assets to gain control of the political economy. After that they have simply used advanced KGB tactics (control of the media, crackdown on dissent, arbitrary enforcement of laws against adversaries) to control the population.

To me the Republican party is similar in a plutocratic sense (witness the latest Wall Street Giveaway in the budget), expansion of campaign contribution limits, and how Citigroup wrote the new regulatory law allowing FDIC insured banks to invest in speculative derivatives. The genius is getting folks like Sanity, Creative D, the Heretic cheering the measures... that is no small trick.

Regular people aew completely pushed aside and don't even have access to the system.
God, you are such a left loon.

Do you really think you have no access to the "system"? When was the last time you or ANY of your friends were jailed for disagreeing with the government? Oh wait...the government, especially the man in charge, is doing exactly what you like...redistributing wealth (aka taking from those who have it, earned or inherited) and giving it to those who do nothing to earn it, over-regulating everything, trying to control your life more with those new regulations and laws, etc. A lot like Putin.


God, you are such a right loon.

Seriously? Like Putin? You should visit Russia and live there a while.

"over-regulating everything?" Are you made of straw?

If you want to debate, great. But start from reality.

How about you let cloud argue his own fantasies? Because his comparison of Putin's Russia to a Republican-led U. S. is just that...a fantasy. And a fallacy. And if you cannot see that overregulation is a fact in the U.S. right now, you're experiencing your own case of "blinders".

(in reply to Musicmystery)
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RE: Does this make any difference or.....? - 12/17/2014 7:26:51 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Agreed the Putin/Republican thing is nuts.

"Over-regulating" is a pretty broad brush. Surely you can see that.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Does this make any difference or.....? - 12/17/2014 7:42:05 AM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Zonie just curious .... What establishment prosecution here needs to be taken wih a grain of salt?


I was mainly addressing the point that people are jailed for "disagreeing with the government" in Russia, while implying that that doesn't happen here. I don't strictly agree with that, since even in Soviet Russia, people were arrested on seemingly legitimate charges, at least on paper. Technically, they weren't being locked up for disagreeing with the government, since (on paper), they had freedom of speech guaranteed in their constitution, too.

But I also wonder how much of that may be happening in this country as well. While the USSR had their show trials, we also had two red scares, McCarthyism - and even worse stuff going further back in our history. But nowadays, we've been trying to put those days behind us, just as the Russians have been trying to do. But people keep saying that Putin is just doing the same old Soviet shit, but they could look at us and say stuff about us and our current government, drawing parallels with our own past.

If one can understand why there is distrust of politicians, then it should be equally easy to understand why there would be distrust of processes and procedures which are operated and controlled by politicians. I know that many of us like to believe that certain government agencies/processes can be "divorced from politics," but that's an absolute impossibility.

(in reply to kdsub)
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RE: Does this make any difference or.....? - 12/17/2014 8:42:55 AM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Zonie just curious .... What establishment prosecution here needs to be taken wih a grain of salt?


Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, comes to mind.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Does this make any difference or.....? - 12/17/2014 9:03:19 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Agreed the Putin/Republican thing is nuts.

"Over-regulating" is a pretty broad brush. Surely you can see that.

Agreed that over-regulating of everything is a pretty broad brush. However, when you look at the trucking industry, commercial drivers (both of which I deal with a lot in my practice), the health care industry itself when it comes to following the regulations in place to be a Medicare provider, and on and on, it does get to be burdensome.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
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RE: Does this make any difference or.....? - 12/17/2014 10:36:42 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

parallels


Sorry Zonie I see no parallels at all... at least not on a systematic governmental level as it is in Russia. Sure we can all be victims of our legislatures when bad laws are enacted reflecting the feelings and prejudices of the people and business. But that is different than what is happening in Russia... at least in my opinion.

Butch


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Zonie63)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Does this make any difference or.....? - 12/17/2014 3:07:01 PM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

parallels


Sorry Zonie I see no parallels at all...



Well, it's easy to not see something if you don't want to look.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Does this make any difference or.....? - 12/18/2014 3:53:38 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

There is a ground breaking book out now entitled Putin's Kleptocracy. The reviews offer a pretty chilling portrait of Russia. You cannot grow any semblance of a healthy economy in a corrupt, crime ridden, Kleptocracy. What was most startling to me was how high ranking KGB and Communist officers planned for a post USSR coup as early as the 80s by stealing money from the state, hiding it overseas, and the using it to buy up state assets to gain control of the political economy. After that they have simply used advanced KGB tactics (control of the media, crackdown on dissent, arbitrary enforcement of laws against adversaries) to control the population.

To me the Republican party is similar in a plutocratic sense (witness the latest Wall Street Giveaway in the budget), expansion of campaign contribution limits, and how Citigroup wrote the new regulatory law allowing FDIC insured banks to invest in speculative derivatives. The genius is getting folks like Sanity, Creative D, the Heretic cheering the measures... that is no small trick.

Regular people aew completely pushed aside and don't even have access to the system.
God, you are such a left loon.

Do you really think you have no access to the "system"? When was the last time you or ANY of your friends were jailed for disagreeing with the government? Oh wait...the government, especially the man in charge, is doing exactly what you like...redistributing wealth (aka taking from those who have it, earned or inherited) and giving it to those who do nothing to earn it, over-regulating everything, trying to control your life more with those new regulations and laws, etc. A lot like Putin.


Unmitigated bullshit. 95% of the wealth created in our great 'free' market [sic] since 2001 has gone to the top 5% and since 2008, the top 1% whose paid on average 15%-17% federal taxes on it.

The redistribution of wealth in the USA is from poor to rich and for the last 35 years. The bottom 50% are now poorer in inflation adjusted dollars than they were in 2000 and even then only up 3% of the dot com and Y2K overblown software hires and the employment crash since Reagan.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
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RE: Does this make any difference or.....? - 12/18/2014 3:56:16 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

There is a ground breaking book out now entitled Putin's Kleptocracy. The reviews offer a pretty chilling portrait of Russia. You cannot grow any semblance of a healthy economy in a corrupt, crime ridden, Kleptocracy. What was most startling to me was how high ranking KGB and Communist officers planned for a post USSR coup as early as the 80s by stealing money from the state, hiding it overseas, and the using it to buy up state assets to gain control of the political economy. After that they have simply used advanced KGB tactics (control of the media, crackdown on dissent, arbitrary enforcement of laws against adversaries) to control the population.

To me the Republican party is similar in a plutocratic sense (witness the latest Wall Street Giveaway in the budget), expansion of campaign contribution limits, and how Citigroup wrote the new regulatory law allowing FDIC insured banks to invest in speculative derivatives. The genius is getting folks like Sanity, Creative D, the Heretic cheering the measures... that is no small trick.

Regular people aew completely pushed aside and don't even have access to the system.
God, you are such a left loon.

Do you really think you have no access to the "system"? When was the last time you or ANY of your friends were jailed for disagreeing with the government? Oh wait...the government, especially the man in charge, is doing exactly what you like...redistributing wealth (aka taking from those who have it, earned or inherited) and giving it to those who do nothing to earn it, over-regulating everything, trying to control your life more with those new regulations and laws, etc. A lot like Putin.


God, you are such a right loon.

Seriously? Like Putin? You should visit Russia and live there a while.

"over-regulating everything?" Are you made of straw?

If you want to debate, great. But start from reality.

How about you let cloud argue his own fantasies? Because his comparison of Putin's Russia to a Republican-led U. S. is just that...a fantasy. And a fallacy. And if you cannot see that overregulation is a fact in the U.S. right now, you're experiencing your own case of "blinders".

Most 'over' regulation is used (purchased) by the existing profiteers to keep out competition and exactly why most of it has nothing to do at all...with the marketplace as it exists.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Does this make any difference or.....? - 12/18/2014 4:01:07 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Agreed the Putin/Republican thing is nuts.

"Over-regulating" is a pretty broad brush. Surely you can see that.

Agreed that over-regulating of everything is a pretty broad brush. However, when you look at the trucking industry, commercial drivers (both of which I deal with a lot in my practice), the health care industry itself when it comes to following the regulations in place to be a Medicare provider, and on and on, it does get to be burdensome.

No problem. I am a very skilled capitalist and bill medicare $80,000 for a $20,000 by-pass my patient shouldn't need in the first place and $1,500 for a $100 MRI that is and has been a great fraud on the program for 30 years.

Then add in the weekly $125 blood tests for EVERY patient that I DON'T take...soon, Medicare has been berry, berry good (profitble) to the Dr.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Does this make any difference or.....? - 12/18/2014 4:04:26 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Most 'over' regulation is used (purchased) by the existing profiteers to keep out competition and exactly why most of it has nothing to do at all...with the marketplace as it exists.


1) Regardless of who "purchased" the regulation, it's still "over-regulation," and should be done away with.

2) Money is buying both sides of the aisle, and that's our (the American voters') fault for electing people who can be bought.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 20
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