RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight

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MariaB -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/29/2014 1:12:04 AM)
recommendations and follow ups are part of the norm within the NHS. I'm not sure why you would believe otherwise.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/29/2014 3:06:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee Maybe "follow-ups" are a new thing. I have always had them. So have my children and my late husband. My companion has them as well. But, again, follow-ups are still going to be up to the patient, unless there is some form of force or coercion that is going to be employed. quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB recommendations and follow ups are part of the norm within the NHS. I'm not sure why you would believe otherwise. So, this new program is doing what, then? Is it just posturing by government to make it look like they are doing something about a problem?

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/29/2014 3:38:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee Maybe "follow-ups" are a new thing. I have always had them. So have my children and my late husband. My companion has them as well. But, again, follow-ups are still going to be up to the patient, unless there is some form of force or coercion that is going to be employed. quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB recommendations and follow ups are part of the norm within the NHS. I'm not sure why you would believe otherwise. So, this new program is doing what, then? Is it just posturing by government to make it look like they are doing something about a problem? And how many times have I said that it is to force GP's and healthcare professionals into consistency. That is the whole point of this directive - consistency across the board no matter where you live.

eulero83 -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/29/2014 4:15:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee Maybe "follow-ups" are a new thing. I have always had them. So have my children and my late husband. My companion has them as well. But, again, follow-ups are still going to be up to the patient, unless there is some form of force or coercion that is going to be employed. quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB recommendations and follow ups are part of the norm within the NHS. I'm not sure why you would believe otherwise. So, this new program is doing what, then? Is it just posturing by government to make it look like they are doing something about a problem? I read the article, all of it, and notwithstanding Aylee put a spotlight on the "identification" process, what I understand is UK's NHS elected obesity as a priority and decided to pump money in various programs to tackle a problem that was not allarming in the past. As other pointed out the identification, weight tracking and advices may be nothing new, but I suppose econmic incentives for people loosing weight, free work out programs, funds for education and the food industry responsabilization are.

Aibo -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/29/2014 7:57:53 AM)
Yeah that's all good, advertising also need to be addressed, warning texts similar to that found on tobacco for MacDonalds and shows on TV like that bacon guy in USA that need to be labelled 'Food Porn' and banned under the communications decency act. [sm=fight.gif]

DesideriScuri -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/29/2014 2:49:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee Maybe "follow-ups" are a new thing. I have always had them. So have my children and my late husband. My companion has them as well. But, again, follow-ups are still going to be up to the patient, unless there is some form of force or coercion that is going to be employed. quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB recommendations and follow ups are part of the norm within the NHS. I'm not sure why you would believe otherwise. So, this new program is doing what, then? Is it just posturing by government to make it look like they are doing something about a problem? I read the article, all of it, and notwithstanding Aylee put a spotlight on the "identification" process, what I understand is UK's NHS elected obesity as a priority and decided to pump money in various programs to tackle a problem that was not allarming in the past. As other pointed out the identification, weight tracking and advices may be nothing new, but I suppose econmic incentives for people loosing weight, free work out programs, funds for education and the food industry responsabilization are. Being fat has always carried an increased risk of diabetes. That's old news. The problem is still going to be patient compliance. While there may be some people who haven't been able to afford to purchase help to fight their weight problems, the majority of people who are fat don't fall into this category, I'm willing to bet. Do you need Jenny Craig or Weight Watchers (only named because another poster brought these two programs into the mix) to lose weight? No. Do you need a pill? No. Does anyone out there truly not know that eating healthier and being active is the best way to control one's weight? Seriously? Apparently, in the UK, people don't know that stuff, so they need government to create a program. Is it really the fault of the food industry? Unless there aren't labeling laws requiring a breakdown of ingredients and nutrients in the UK, it's not their fault that people want to eat the crap they produce (seriously, if no one ate it at a price that allowed the company to make money, they'd stop producing it).

Musicmystery -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/29/2014 2:54:02 PM)
One-Third of Adults with Diabetes Still Don’t Know They Have It

Politesub53 -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/29/2014 4:12:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee Maybe "follow-ups" are a new thing. I have always had them. So have my children and my late husband. My companion has them as well. But, again, follow-ups are still going to be up to the patient, unless there is some form of force or coercion that is going to be employed. quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB recommendations and follow ups are part of the norm within the NHS. I'm not sure why you would believe otherwise. So, this new program is doing what, then? Is it just posturing by government to make it look like they are doing something about a problem? Head in the sand time agin eh. [8\|]

LiveSpark -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/29/2014 4:24:48 PM)
I don't know how it works where you are but here the patient goes up to the secretary with their doctor, the doctor tells the secretary when he wants to see the patient the patient and secretary book it. That's all, no force or coercion. [8\|]

DesideriScuri -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/29/2014 8:09:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LiveSpark I don't know how it works where you are but here the patient goes up to the secretary with their doctor, the doctor tells the secretary when he wants to see the patient the patient and secretary book it. That's all, no force or coercion. [8\|] That's pretty much it here, too. But, in between, there is no way to ensure compliance. That's a big part of the problem.

eulero83 -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/30/2014 1:26:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee Maybe "follow-ups" are a new thing. I have always had them. So have my children and my late husband. My companion has them as well. But, again, follow-ups are still going to be up to the patient, unless there is some form of force or coercion that is going to be employed. quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB recommendations and follow ups are part of the norm within the NHS. I'm not sure why you would believe otherwise. So, this new program is doing what, then? Is it just posturing by government to make it look like they are doing something about a problem? I read the article, all of it, and notwithstanding Aylee put a spotlight on the "identification" process, what I understand is UK's NHS elected obesity as a priority and decided to pump money in various programs to tackle a problem that was not allarming in the past. As other pointed out the identification, weight tracking and advices may be nothing new, but I suppose econmic incentives for people loosing weight, free work out programs, funds for education and the food industry responsabilization are. Being fat has always carried an increased risk of diabetes. That's old news. The problem is still going to be patient compliance. While there may be some people who haven't been able to afford to purchase help to fight their weight problems, the majority of people who are fat don't fall into this category, I'm willing to bet. Do you need Jenny Craig or Weight Watchers (only named because another poster brought these two programs into the mix) to lose weight? No. Do you need a pill? No. Does anyone out there truly not know that eating healthier and being active is the best way to control one's weight? Seriously? Again the article I read was about a program to increase patient compliance through incentives, information and eliminating economical obstacles, somehow a group of people read about a 1984's style conscription into the "fitness army for lardass". quote: Apparently, in the UK, people don't know that stuff, so they need government to create a program. Is it really the fault of the food industry? Unless there aren't labeling laws requiring a breakdown of ingredients and nutrients in the UK, it's not their fault that people want to eat the crap they produce (seriously, if no one ate it at a price that allowed the company to make money, they'd stop producing it). Apparently yes and they are trying to fix the problem, so do people in the US know even less or are them in a kind of slow sucidal mode? Maybe fault is not the right word but they also spend a lot of money inducing you in eating their crap by making it look like caviar.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/30/2014 3:14:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee Maybe "follow-ups" are a new thing. I have always had them. So have my children and my late husband. My companion has them as well. But, again, follow-ups are still going to be up to the patient, unless there is some form of force or coercion that is going to be employed. quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB recommendations and follow ups are part of the norm within the NHS. I'm not sure why you would believe otherwise. So, this new program is doing what, then? Is it just posturing by government to make it look like they are doing something about a problem? I read the article, all of it, and notwithstanding Aylee put a spotlight on the "identification" process, what I understand is UK's NHS elected obesity as a priority and decided to pump money in various programs to tackle a problem that was not allarming in the past. As other pointed out the identification, weight tracking and advices may be nothing new, but I suppose econmic incentives for people loosing weight, free work out programs, funds for education and the food industry responsabilization are. Being fat has always carried an increased risk of diabetes. That's old news. The problem is still going to be patient compliance. While there may be some people who haven't been able to afford to purchase help to fight their weight problems, the majority of people who are fat don't fall into this category, I'm willing to bet. Do you need Jenny Craig or Weight Watchers (only named because another poster brought these two programs into the mix) to lose weight? No. Do you need a pill? No. Does anyone out there truly not know that eating healthier and being active is the best way to control one's weight? Seriously? Again the article I read was about a program to increase patient compliance through incentives, information and eliminating economical obstacles, somehow a group of people read about a 1984's style conscription into the "fitness army for lardass". And, the OP's real problem with the whole thing was the part about ensuring compliance. The only way to ensure compliance is to force it. Had the the article stated it as "providing incentives for compliance," there would have been much less to talk about. Most of the people arguing on these boards are arguing the benefits of proactive health care vs. reactive health care, which wasn't the point of the OP at all. quote: quote: Apparently, in the UK, people don't know that stuff, so they need government to create a program. Is it really the fault of the food industry? Unless there aren't labeling laws requiring a breakdown of ingredients and nutrients in the UK, it's not their fault that people want to eat the crap they produce (seriously, if no one ate it at a price that allowed the company to make money, they'd stop producing it). Apparently yes and they are trying to fix the problem, so do people in the US know even less or are them in a kind of slow sucidal mode? Maybe fault is not the right word but they also spend a lot of money inducing you in eating their crap by making it look like caviar. The general mindset of the American population is to consume. We buy into the marketing and advertising. I mean, does anyone seriously think they'll be "like Mike" (Michael Jordan, one of the greatest - if not the greatest - NBA players of all time) if they drink Gatorade, wear Hanes underwear, or buy the Nike shoes that bear his description (Air Jordans, which, btw, were at the center of a riot here in Toledo not long ago that required tear gas to dispel; over a $200 pair of sneakers)? People buy into it and don't pay attention because that would require thought and sometimes even requires they take responsibility for themselves. Ain't nobody got time for that crap. American Idol is about to come on and I haven't even found out who was just kicked off the island yet! But, if the American population, in general, were to make inexpensive lifestyle changes that they already know lead to a healthier life, a lot of companies making nutritional garbage would go out of business and, I fully believe, our health care spending would go down, and our health care outcomes would go up.

MariaB -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/30/2014 3:30:55 AM)
Look DesiderScuri, you live in a country that has the biggest obesity problems in the world. If you were a French man or a Spanish man or an Icelandic man telling me/us that knowing certain foods or over indulgence of food is making us ill and this new scheme is just a waste of time and money, I would have to listen but you're American. You come from a country that has more obesity problems than anywhere else on this planet. Try to knock us for trying hard not to catch up with you and its laughable because its as clear as glass that whatever you have tried in your country thus far hasn't worked.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/30/2014 3:49:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB Look DesiderScuri, you live in a country that has the biggest obesity problems in the world. If you were a French man or a Spanish man or an Icelandic man telling me/us that knowing certain foods or over indulgence of food is making us ill and this new scheme is just a waste of time and money, I would have to listen but you're American. You come from a country that has more obesity problems than anywhere else on this planet. Try to knock us for trying hard not to catch up with you and its laughable because its as clear as glass that whatever you have tried in your country thus far hasn't worked. In case you didn't notice it, I blame Americans for the obesity problem in America. It isn't that the information isn't out there and that there is some conspiracy to keep people in the dark about the ill effects. It's that the people either won't look, or don't care. Years ago, fast food restaurants stated making nutritional information about their food available. Now, everyone could see a Big Mac was a whole lot of calories, and that it didn't provide a whole lot of nutrition. Did that make us any less fat? Did that seriously undermine the whole fast food sector? Nope. Why? Because we, in general, didn't give a fuck.

NorthernGent -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/30/2014 4:14:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee Good grief, really? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/11295265/Doctors-told-to-report-patients-who-put-on-weight.html There is undoubtedly an aspect of government control involved in this. That being: independent research suggests obesity costs the British taxpayer more than the police, prison and fire services combined. So, yes, the government have looked at this and deduced that we are damaging our economic prospects, and they want it sorting out. In terms of procedure, this isn't any different to how the NHS works in general. We have programmes for all sorts of things, monitored by doctors, and the information will be used for other matters, e.g. economic data. A point aside: in the event you or anyone else thinks you're still in the fight to protect your rights as an individual, then I think you may have missed the boat a long time back. Christ, you can't even walk through an airport these days without being subjected to a prison like strip-search - and all in the name of 'keeping people safe'.

eulero83 -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/30/2014 4:22:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri And, the OP's real problem with the whole thing was the part about ensuring compliance. The only way to ensure compliance is to force it. Had the the article stated it as "providing incentives for compliance," there would have been much less to talk about. Most of the people arguing on these boards are arguing the benefits of proactive health care vs. reactive health care, which wasn't the point of the OP at all. I report some of the quotes in the article that you might have missed: quote: "That’s why the NHS is going to be funding a new national programme, proven to work, that will offer tens of thousands of people at risk of diabetes proper support to get healthier, eat better and exercise more," quote: Mr Stevens said: "If this was a pill we'd be popping it - instead it’s a well-designed programme of exercise, eating well and making smart health choices, and we're going to start making it available free on the NHS." quote: Other schemes backed by Mr Stevens will see companies asked to reward staff who lose weight with shopping vouchers and prizes. I found nothing that implied forcing people in doing stuff in the article, just incentives, if you can give me some quotes I can change my mind though.

Sanity -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/30/2014 4:41:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee Good grief, really? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/11295265/Doctors-told-to-report-patients-who-put-on-weight.html There is undoubtedly an aspect of government control involved in this. That being: independent research suggests obesity costs the British taxpayer more than the police, prison and fire services combined. So, yes, the government have looked at this and deduced that we are damaging our economic prospects, and they want it sorting out. In terms of procedure, this isn't any different to how the NHS works in general. We have programmes for all sorts of things, monitored by doctors, and the information will be used for other matters, e.g. economic data. A point aside: in the event you or anyone else thinks you're still in the fight to protect your rights as an individual, then I think you may have missed the boat a long time back. Christ, you can't even walk through an airport these days without being subjected to a prison like strip-search - and all in the name of 'keeping people safe'. There you have it, NG and I are in agreement

crazyml -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/30/2014 4:53:03 AM)
The announcement wasn't well phrased, and the telegraph (as is its wont) chose to leap on it. I've read this thread with a certain amount of amusement to be honest. This is a fucking health initiative. There is an absolutely proven link between obesity and poor health. Every year the NHS, which has an absolute interest in the health of the nation - the clue being in the presence of the word "health" in the moniker - runs hundreds of trial programs aimed at helping people be more healthy, whether this relates to quitting smoking, drinking less alcohol or managing their weight. Some of these programs are very successful, and when they are, the NHS seeks to publicise them, and may even offer incentives for other health authorities to adopt them. Naturally, no-one would try to argue that this is a bad thing. I mean, what sort of moron would attempt to argue that disseminating and and encouraging the adoption of good public health practice was a bad thing? (It's a rhetorical question, the answer to which seems rather clear from some of the posts on this thread). While I know that some non European types like to imagine that everyone outside their country lives under the yoke of some socialist dictatorship, so it ought to come as a fantastic relief for them to learn that Europeans are every bit as snippy about their freedoms as anyone else. We, of course, have the benefit of living in properly functioning democracies which allow us to change our laws on a democratic basis, I know that this is a difficult concept for some who are tied like serfs to laws that were passed 200 years ago, but it's really nifty to be able to change laws on the basis of a democratic mandate. The NHS is introducing a number of programs based on the "nudge" principle. While I'm not altogether convinced that "nudge" is the panacea that some claim it to be, it has been very effective in helping people quit smoking, and in helping expectant mothers live a more healthy lifestyle. The terrible word "ensure" in the text, was a bad choice. But, again, any concerned friends can rest entirely at ease in the knowledge that the NHS is still a long way from being able to use force on competent patients. The other word, "report" is also a little dodgy - There is no intent to draw up some sinister government list of fatties - GP's are being asked to look through their own patient records and take action where applicable. Yes, they have to report to the govt on numbers, just as they do on hip replacements, knee complaints etc etc - Not least because this is how funding is allocated. Sheesh.

NorthernGent -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/30/2014 5:34:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee So, since you are in the UK can you tell us all how the "close monitoring to ensure they are eating better and exercising more," is going to work? How does the government ENSURE healthy eating and exercising? Clearly, the government can't ensure anything. But, in terms of how they'll try: It's the same with pretty much all programmes these days: partnerships. It states in the article that parents, schools and other organisations will be involved. This sort of arrangement isn't unheard of in the United States. I was once involved in an economic partnership, and we studied Durham, North Carolina as a test case (chosen because the partnership I was involved in was Durham, England and because this partnership was reportedly very successful in improving the economic outlook of Durham, N.C.) Stakeholders get round a table and get their heads together to sort out an hitherto unchecked problem. The Government aren't involved in the sense some Americans on this thread seem to think they're involved; I think there's some confusion. They are focusing on this issue and making it a priority. The Government are not involved in administering care, except that the NHS is, ultimately, a government body; with care being administered by doctors who, ultimately, are on the government payroll as public servants. I would have thought any government in the world has a stake in the health and prosperity of the people who have chosen the government to govern, so it's hardly a surprise that the government is one stakeholder, and not the only stakeholder by a long chalk, that is calling for action and results. And, it is as plain as day that some people do need this guidance. You may say that it's treating people like children, but in the event that the cost of obesity is so staggeringly high for taxpayers then perhaps it's time to get people's heads together to make some inroads into this issue?

MariaB -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/30/2014 5:37:29 AM)
Until our government make restrictions on certain products going into food and until they stop misleading us with misguided labels on food, I'm not sure any of this is going to do any good. I don't think information about the evils of Fructose and the huge lack of fibre in our every day diet is easily available. Most people aren't suspicious that such products or lack of them could be the very culprit for our obesity epidemic and if they aren't suspicious, why would they go looking for information? How many doctors are aware and concerned enough about things like fructose? and if they aren't aware, what are they going to suggest to their overweight patients? Eat more diet products? the very thing that causes all sorts of diseases as well as storing body fat? Man made fructose is in so many foods now that its near on impossible to ovoid it. Even baby milk is drenched in this poison. We now have six month old babies that are not only obese but have permanent liver damage...and so it goes on. Diet products are made tasty with fructose, light products are dosed in fructose but the people who eat more fructose than anyone else are the people who live on diet products. The very people who are making a real effort to lose weight.

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