Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendment instead of trying to repeal it.


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendment instead of trying to repeal it. Page: <<   < prev  9 10 [11] 12 13   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendmen... - 1/4/2015 12:16:40 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		I don't want,nor advocate for ,confiscation of arms...I have strong opinions on the need for a national response to the current reality.
We have a gun problem...and it needs to be addressed.


_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 201
RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendmen... - 1/4/2015 12:55:25 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

So we should continue to suffer mass shootings because you fear the slippery slope bullshit that the NRA shouts from the mountain tops....well I and a growing number of Americans are sick and tired of witnessing this carnage silently.
The Gay marriage rights movement has shown the way....move the state houses and the federal gov. will follow,kicking and screaming perhaps but it will follow
We've has enough Columbine's enough Newton's,enough movie theaters,enough work places and enough malls
When will you have had enough?
So basically...what you really come down to is utter control of my rights?

Again...have the ATF and the police and the mental health experts and parents do their job and stop expecting the government to do it.

Gay marriage is about rights for one group of people being granted without any rights being taken away from others. What you suggest is some indefinable right...the right not to be involved in a mass shooting? the right not to be scared?...trumping the rights of responsible gun-owning/buying people.

We had a discussion going...until I asked you at what point the rights of responsible people don't matter anymore. Then you posted this in response. The NRA bullshit about slippery slopes isn't bullshit when someone like you posts something like this which just proves their point. Not one I completely agree with either but until I see a reasonable answer from you defining at what point you're happy/unhappy...compromise...I can't go along with you.


< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 1/4/2015 1:06:10 PM >

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 202
RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendmen... - 1/4/2015 12:56:30 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: epiphiny43

That argument (For yet more background checks, many currently exist.) has a fatal flaw. As do most on Either side of the American gun debate.
Assuming changing the various US and State gun laws on gun access will substantially change behavior on the street, or what damaged brains and minds do, shows abysmal understanding of the grey and black markets, which are huge in the US and may be greater in other countries than the official markets. You Really need to get out more?
If you don't know who to go see to buy sex, illegal drugs, legal but unprescribed to You drugs or most types of guns, people on your block or where you shop most certainly do. And many are known to the police. All street people are living in the black market whether they want to or not. Anyone interested finds it quickly.
For better and worse, our society is entrepreneurial far beyond the ability of legislatures and the Law to control. Ask any drug dealer, pimp or real estate developer.

There is no way to do anything about underground gun sales until you address the glut of weapons available legally....see the above problem in getting a one month a gun law passed in Virginia.


Stick it to the legal gun owners in the hope it will slow the illegal ones, trickle down law enforcement, I get it.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 203
RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendmen... - 1/4/2015 1:02:18 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Never thought i was going to convince either of you of the reasonableness of my views or even the need for action.
You are both too stuck on your ideology,you both share the belief that anything worth doing is more than you can imagine accommodating.
No surprises here.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 204
RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendmen... - 1/4/2015 1:03:38 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I don't want,nor advocate for ,confiscation of arms...I have strong opinions on the need for a national response to the current reality.
We have a gun problem...and it needs to be addressed.


That is what they said in CA and NY then they confiscated them.
You are either not being completely honest or you are not paying attention to others in the gun control culture.
I will assume the latter.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 205
RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendmen... - 1/4/2015 1:11:16 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Never thought i was going to convince either of you of the reasonableness of my views or even the need for action.
You are both too stuck on your ideology,you both share the belief that anything worth doing is more than you can imagine accommodating.
No surprises here.

Make up your mind, did you think we would see the reasonableness of your views or is there no surprise here.
Why is every suggestion you make aimed at those of us who are not a problem? Trickle down law enforcement again.
How about this radical suggestion, let's enforce the laws we have before we proclaim them to not be enough. That isn't being done.
How about we stiffen penalties for using a firearm in a crime?
How about we go after people who lie on the background forms, that's a felony you know, instead of bragging about not letting them buy?
Wouldn't do because the "real problem" is the legal gun owners right?
As long as you insist on going after the legal gun owner it will never be enough.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 206
RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendmen... - 1/4/2015 1:12:25 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Never thought i was going to convince either of you of the reasonableness of my views or even the need for action.
You are both too stuck on your ideology,you both share the belief that anything worth doing is more than you can imagine accommodating.
No surprises here.
Your last several posts and especially your last one to me...as you got angrier as I said yes to background checks, first state by state and then yes to universal and then your non-answer reaction to my suggestion regarding your belief about limiting number of sales to an individual...clearly shows the unteasonableness of the path you want to go down.

I asked you for a clear statement of where you'd be happy/unhappy...compromise...with gun owners. Let's hear it.


< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 1/4/2015 1:39:34 PM >

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 207
RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendmen... - 1/4/2015 1:42:25 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		I've answered that question innumerable times on these pages.....read the fucking thread.
And every reasonable suggestion put forth was rejected by bama and you .
National data base,close the gun show loophole,nationally....limit purchases to one a month allow the CDC to study the issue rather than stonewalling it.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 208
RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendmen... - 1/4/2015 1:54:09 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I've answered that question innumerable times on these pages.....read the fucking thread.
And every reasonable suggestion put forth was rejected by bama and you .
National data base,close the gun show loophole,nationally....limit purchases to one a month allow the CDC to study the issue rather than stonewalling it.

The last time the CDC "studied" it they cooked the books why should we count on them to do it right next time. Although they, quoting the FBI admit to over half a million defensive uses of firearms a year.
As I have already pointed out the only time I personally know of a felon being arrested for trying to purchase a firearm was at a gun show, at it was do to the action of the dealer.
The "gun show loophole" is not really accurate, dealers have to do background checks just like they were at a gun store. Talk reality.
I have also repeatedly advocated tightening up background checks.
I notice you don't want to talk about laws that go after the criminals you still want to focus on trickle down and make it rougher for the legitimate gun owners.
Reasonable, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.
It is that nothing from the pro gun people is ever enough.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 1/4/2015 2:07:57 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 209
RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendmen... - 1/4/2015 2:13:16 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Thats caus ethe pro gun lobby has never willingly made any accommodation,never.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 210
RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendmen... - 1/4/2015 2:24:19 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I've answered that question innumerable times on these pages.....read the fucking thread.
And every reasonable suggestion put forth was rejected by bama and you .
National data base,close the gun show loophole,nationally....limit purchases to one a month allow the CDC to study the issue rather than stonewalling it.

Getting angry, mike? Swearing? Hmmmmm...

I believe your statement above is wrong...perhaps just a mistake on your part since not EVERY reasonable suggestion was rejected. Let me show you:

Statewide background check for buyers, as suggested by you? I'm good with that.

Universal background check, as suggested by you? A bit harder to swallow since I don't like the feds insinuating their way into state business...but o.k..

National data base? Of what exactly, Mike? The information provided in the background checks? Sure. For ongoing monitoring...other than periodic updates of the background information...no.

Close the gun show loophole? If there is one, then sure. They should have to do what gun stores do.

Limit purchases to one a month? I've already disagreed with you on this one. It is not reasonable.

So there you go mike. Except fro a couple of areas, I have agreed with you in terms of where I'd compromise. Where's your compromise positions? Unless you're stating that the gun laws in place are it for you?

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 211
RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendmen... - 1/4/2015 2:48:17 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I've answered that question innumerable times on these pages.....read the fucking thread.
And every reasonable suggestion put forth was rejected by bama and you .
National data base,close the gun show loophole,nationally....limit purchases to one a month allow the CDC to study the issue rather than stonewalling it.

Getting angry, mike? Swearing? Hmmmmm...

I believe your statement above is wrong...perhaps just a mistake on your part since not EVERY reasonable suggestion was rejected. Let me show you:

Statewide background check for buyers, as suggested by you? I'm good with that.

Universal background check, as suggested by you? A bit harder to swallow since I don't like the feds insinuating their way into state business...but o.k..

National data base? Of what exactly, Mike? The information provided in the background checks? Sure. For ongoing monitoring...other than periodic updates of the background information...no.

Close the gun show loophole? If there is one, then sure. They should have to do what gun stores do.

Limit purchases to one a month? I've already disagreed with you on this one. It is not reasonable.

So there you go mike. Except fro a couple of areas, I have agreed with you in terms of where I'd compromise. Where's your compromise positions? Unless you're stating that the gun laws in place are it for you?

The alleged loophole is that if you and I run into each other at a gun show and you buy my gun there is no background check, just like there wouldn't be if we ran into each other at Winn Dixie and you bought it. Every proposal for shutting down this "loophole" involved massive fines for the gun show. It is a backdoor way to get rid of gun shows.
Dealers have to do checks just like they were in their store.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 212
RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendmen... - 1/4/2015 3:00:36 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I've answered that question innumerable times on these pages.....read the fucking thread.
And every reasonable suggestion put forth was rejected by bama and you .
National data base,close the gun show loophole,nationally....limit purchases to one a month allow the CDC to study the issue rather than stonewalling it.

Getting angry, mike? Swearing? Hmmmmm...

I believe your statement above is wrong...perhaps just a mistake on your part since not EVERY reasonable suggestion was rejected. Let me show you:

Statewide background check for buyers, as suggested by you? I'm good with that.

Universal background check, as suggested by you? A bit harder to swallow since I don't like the feds insinuating their way into state business...but o.k..

National data base? Of what exactly, Mike? The information provided in the background checks? Sure. For ongoing monitoring...other than periodic updates of the background information...no.

Close the gun show loophole? If there is one, then sure. They should have to do what gun stores do.

Limit purchases to one a month? I've already disagreed with you on this one. It is not reasonable.

So there you go mike. Except fro a couple of areas, I have agreed with you in terms of where I'd compromise. Where's your compromise positions? Unless you're stating that the gun laws in place are it for you?

Those are my compromises CD....and as much as it means to me that you have agreed with me have You let the NRA know this ?
Have You directed that organization to get behind change and backed that with a threat of dropping Your membership ?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 213
RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendmen... - 1/4/2015 3:02:44 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		But that cousin to cousin sale you so blithely throw out there is THE GUN SHOW LOOPHOLE.
Any non dealer can sell to any other non dealer and needs do no background check at all
I believe you folks refer to these as private sales ?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 214
RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendmen... - 1/4/2015 4:19:30 PM   
quizzicalkitten


Posts: 312
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
PA is not the only state in the union....I'm surprised you didn't know that



We arent but we do have most of the laws you are advocating for and yet... We have some of the highest amounts of gun crimes in the nation...

WHAT REALLY Never we have all these nifty stop gaps and changes and we blah blah blah...

quote:


Pennsylvania has been one of the deadliest states over the last 10 years. • From 2001 through 2010 there were 12,941 gun deaths in Pennsylvania — the fourth - most gun deaths of all 50 states. 1 • In 2010 there were 1,307 gun deaths in Pennsylvania, or roughly one every seven hours. 2 Ever y two days, three people are murdered by guns in Pennsylvania. • There were 501 gun homicides in the state in 2010 .3•from 2001 through 2010, 5,061 people were murdered by guns in Pennsylvania. That number is as many as all U.S. combat deaths in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan combined.4


http://cdn.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Guns_PA.pdf

quote:


Among other things, Pennsylvania:

Requires a background check prior to the private sale of a handgun;
Conducts its own background checks for firearm sales; and
Requires firearm dealers to obtain a state license.


http://smartgunlaws.org/pennsylvania-state-law-summary/

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 215
RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendmen... - 1/4/2015 4:24:56 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I've answered that question innumerable times on these pages.....read the fucking thread.
And every reasonable suggestion put forth was rejected by bama and you .
National data base,close the gun show loophole,nationally....limit purchases to one a month allow the CDC to study the issue rather than stonewalling it.

Getting angry, mike? Swearing? Hmmmmm...

I believe your statement above is wrong...perhaps just a mistake on your part since not EVERY reasonable suggestion was rejected. Let me show you:

Statewide background check for buyers, as suggested by you? I'm good with that.

Universal background check, as suggested by you? A bit harder to swallow since I don't like the feds insinuating their way into state business...but o.k..

National data base? Of what exactly, Mike? The information provided in the background checks? Sure. For ongoing monitoring...other than periodic updates of the background information...no.

Close the gun show loophole? If there is one, then sure. They should have to do what gun stores do.

Limit purchases to one a month? I've already disagreed with you on this one. It is not reasonable.

So there you go mike. Except fro a couple of areas, I have agreed with you in terms of where I'd compromise. Where's your compromise positions? Unless you're stating that the gun laws in place are it for you?

Those are my compromises CD....and as much as it means to me that you have agreed with me have You let the NRA know this ?
Have You directed that organization to get behind change and backed that with a threat of dropping Your membership ?
Your compromises, Mike? No, they are the gun laws your side came up with that MY side agreed to. But they still aren't enough for your side. Hence...the trying for limiting sales numbers, the centralized collection of data BEYOND that provided in the background checks at time of sale, etc.. Oh...btw...here in Colorado, we even went along with reduced magazine size.

Why should I inform the N.R. A. of anything, Mike? I'm an owner of a gun, not a member of their organization. And as far as I know, despite their opposition to some of these laws, I've yet to see them call for an armed resistance to them...have yet to see them publish a pamphlet encouraging their members to disobey the laws. I've seen materials urging their members to oppose the laws' passage and to encourage changing the laws. That's legal, though. You wouldn't want to take a legal organization's rights to do those things, would you, mike? And I do support them in their stance against more restrictive laws and their calls to enforce the laws on the books.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 216
RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendmen... - 1/4/2015 4:27:33 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

But that cousin to cousin sale you so blithely throw out there is THE GUN SHOW LOOPHOLE.
Any non dealer can sell to any other non dealer and needs do no background check at all
I believe you folks refer to these as private sales ?
But you see, Mike...despite the colorful name...those who sell guns at gun shows ARE gun dealers. The name is a misnomer in that...if it wants to go after private sales...that's what it should do.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 217
RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendmen... - 1/4/2015 4:39:29 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

But that cousin to cousin sale you so blithely throw out there is THE GUN SHOW LOOPHOLE.
Any non dealer can sell to any other non dealer and needs do no background check at all
I believe you folks refer to these as private sales ?
But you see, Mike...despite the colorful name...those who sell guns at gun shows ARE gun dealers. The name is a misnomer in that...if it wants to go after private sales...that's what it should do.


The thing is the distortion of language.
Like calling semiautomatics assault weapons because they look like assault weapons. If you said you wanted to ban guns because you don't like the way they look people would laugh at you. If you want a background check because my son and I trade rifles people will look at you like you are nuts, but if you pretend that dealers at gun shows don't do background checks and you just want to do something about it you sound reasonable.



BTW don't you know that everyone who believes in the right to bear arms is a dupe of the NRA? We don't make a move without checking with them which is why we want 6 year old kids taking guns to school because as you know that is a priority of the NRA (sarcasm font off)

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 218
RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendmen... - 1/4/2015 4:45:06 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
PA is not the only state in the union....I'm surprised you didn't know that



We arent but we do have most of the laws you are advocating for and yet... We have some of the highest amounts of gun crimes in the nation...

WHAT REALLY Never we have all these nifty stop gaps and changes and we blah blah blah...

quote:


Pennsylvania has been one of the deadliest states over the last 10 years. • From 2001 through 2010 there were 12,941 gun deaths in Pennsylvania — the fourth - most gun deaths of all 50 states. 1 • In 2010 there were 1,307 gun deaths in Pennsylvania, or roughly one every seven hours. 2 Ever y two days, three people are murdered by guns in Pennsylvania. • There were 501 gun homicides in the state in 2010 .3•from 2001 through 2010, 5,061 people were murdered by guns in Pennsylvania. That number is as many as all U.S. combat deaths in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan combined.4


http://cdn.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Guns_PA.pdf

quote:


Among other things, Pennsylvania:

Requires a background check prior to the private sale of a handgun;
Conducts its own background checks for firearm sales; and
Requires firearm dealers to obtain a state license.


http://smartgunlaws.org/pennsylvania-state-law-summary/

And that isn't enough proof for you that state laws don't work.
What good is all of New York's laws when I-95 is nothing more than a gun delivery system .
They even call it the Iron Thruway...

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to quizzicalkitten)
Profile   Post #: 219
RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendmen... - 1/4/2015 4:47:27 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		This is just a waste of my time.....neither of you are interested in anything that might actually make a difference
I'm not worried,the laws will change,it's the bodies that will have piled up between now and than that concerns me

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 220
Page:   <<   < prev  9 10 [11] 12 13   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Why would you want to chip away at the 2nd amendment instead of trying to repeal it. Page: <<   < prev  9 10 [11] 12 13   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109