quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

I think that Unions (not just police unions) are part of the problem.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Gov Walker,is that you ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Gov Walker,is that you ?

And "public service" unions, more than others can hold society hostage.
I would object much less to them if they weren't allowed to participate in political campaign. What other unions get to help pick management in their companies?

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Why would people choose to work in public sector jobs if they first must surrender the right of collective bargaining and union protection that can be had in the private sector ?
A sense of duty,a calling ?
I don't think you would get enough of the right type of people....the best and the brightest will go elsewhere

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Gov Walker,is that you ?

And "public service" unions, more than others can hold society hostage.
I would object much less to them if they weren't allowed to participate in political campaign. What other unions get to help pick management in their companies?

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Gov Walker,is that you ?

And "public service" unions, more than others can hold society hostage.
I would object much less to them if they weren't allowed to participate in political campaign. What other unions get to help pick management in their companies?

So as well as surrendering their right to collective bargaining,public sector employees should also give up their political voices ?
Corporations are people,money is speech and public sector employees are second class citizens.....gotcha

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
If we were to hold gun nuts to the same level of accountability and responsibility as we do with police officers, fully 9/10 of them would be in jail! So lets dispense with the 'right wing fear mongering' bullshit, ok?

quote:

The police unions know better than to get into or in any way screw up an investigation into a police officer over possible wrong doing. Because it would fully undermine their credibility to the public in *all* future negotiations. Yes, they do help support an officer with a lawyer when the situation calls for it; so would any other organization (i.e. a pilot at of an air travel company accused by the FAA of something). Is there something in the US Constitution that prevents someone from being given a lawyer, or unable to seek the counsel of a lawyer in legal matters? Dont think so....

quote:

There are many stories in the conservative media sphere trying to push the tale that the unions are protecting corrupt and crooked cops. Because 'fear, dread, gloom, and doom' are often the key concepts central to.....any.....of their publications towards conservatives. Sadly, conservatives eat it up without thinking on it, like a dog given poisoned meat. I feel sorry for the dog of animal cruelty; for conservatives, they get whats coming to them for being stupid, uneducated, and foolish!

quote:

Unions by definition are ordinary US Citizens banding together to find a tyrannical power (i.e. management) because the government is either to slow or 'in the pocket' of the corporation. If unions are not allowed as organizations, then the NRA, Heritage Foundation, and all the other 'ring wing' outfits are not to far behind. And individual rights granted under the US Constitution will be greatly diminished. Its really sad that conservatives desire all this....

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

I think it's typical in a Union contract that the Union will represent a member in every case.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

In support of what you said, and to take things just a step further, I think it's typical in a Union contract that the Union will represent a member in every case. That would typically be spelled out in the contract, and, if it is, then there is nothing the Union can do but follow their agreement. I was let go from a Union position a stupid decision I actually made (safety violation) that the Union Steward backed me on. While I was (admittedly) at fault, he still attempted to get management to not fire me (it wasn't a gross violation). It failed (I was in the wrong, afterall). But, that was something he had to do, according to the bargaining agreement.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

At the same time, union or no union, economics still applies.

I teach professional writing two days a week (full time gig technically, but I squeeze it into the time the pay deserves) at a college that has as one of its main specialties training teachers. That School of Education's enrollment is down by 80% in the past few years, as are the education majors in other disciplines (e.g., English Education, Social Sciences Education, etc.), as an apparent direct result of the pressure on wages and common core rules--people no longer want to be teachers under these conditions. At some point, wages and conditions will need to improve to attract quality teachers (or the public/government will need to decide that higher lower quality people is acceptable).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

I think it's typical in a Union contract that the Union will represent a member in every case.

While it may have been true in your anecdote, it's certainly not universally true. I can think of a dozen examples just from my own work spaces over the years. If it's a contractual matter, that's one thing, as you note. But if it's not--you can be very much on your own, even with the union working against you.

It's why contracts matter.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
If we were to hold gun nuts to the same level of accountability and responsibility as we do with police officers, fully 9/10 of them would be in jail! So lets dispense with the 'right wing fear mongering' bullshit, ok?

Cite, please.

quote:

The police unions know better than to get into or in any way screw up an investigation into a police officer over possible wrong doing. Because it would fully undermine their credibility to the public in *all* future negotiations. Yes, they do help support an officer with a lawyer when the situation calls for it; so would any other organization (i.e. a pilot at of an air travel company accused by the FAA of something). Is there something in the US Constitution that prevents someone from being given a lawyer, or unable to seek the counsel of a lawyer in legal matters? Dont think so....

In support of what you said, and to take things just a step further, I think it's typical in a Union contract that the Union will represent a member in every case. That would typically be spelled out in the contract, and, if it is, then there is nothing the Union can do but follow their agreement. I was let go from a Union position a stupid decision I actually made (safety violation) that the Union Steward backed me on. While I was (admittedly) at fault, he still attempted to get management to not fire me (it wasn't a gross violation). It failed (I was in the wrong, afterall). But, that was something he had to do, according to the bargaining agreement.

quote:

There are many stories in the conservative media sphere trying to push the tale that the unions are protecting corrupt and crooked cops. Because 'fear, dread, gloom, and doom' are often the key concepts central to.....any.....of their publications towards conservatives. Sadly, conservatives eat it up without thinking on it, like a dog given poisoned meat. I feel sorry for the dog of animal cruelty; for conservatives, they get whats coming to them for being stupid, uneducated, and foolish!

Unions are protecting corrupt and crooked cops. But, they are also protecting great, decent, outstanding cops, too.

quote:

Unions by definition are ordinary US Citizens banding together to find a tyrannical power (i.e. management) because the government is either to slow or 'in the pocket' of the corporation. If unions are not allowed as organizations, then the NRA, Heritage Foundation, and all the other 'ring wing' outfits are not to far behind. And individual rights granted under the US Constitution will be greatly diminished. Its really sad that conservatives desire all this....

A little bit of hyperbole, there?!? Part of the issue with Public Service Unions is that the Union isn't bargaining with the taxpayer. They can get a pay raise without actually having to negotiate with those who are, ultimately, going to have to pay for it. Government can go back to the taxpayers and, for the most part, wrangle more taxes, regardless of what the taxpayers want. For instance, they can give a raise here, reducing funding from other places to pay for it. When the time comes, it's those "other places" that get put on the hook, not the Union benefit (incl. wages) increases, and get blamed. In a Non-Public Sector Union, Management can't just raise more income to pay for increases. A public government can't really fail and disappear, like a private company can.