Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: 12 dead in Paris


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: 12 dead in Paris Page: <<   < prev  15 16 [17] 18 19   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 12:25:58 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

DaddySatyr, Yep, I don't disagree except to say, I think their fear isn't from fear and retribution from terrorists but fear of condemning the book. I think a lot of moderate Muslims will also say that the book has been hugely misinterpreted too.

I remember on 9/11 a Muslim agreed with my view, that the terrorists were heretics then Louis Frarrakhan proclaimed them to be innocent (he was Nation of Islam) then is was suddenly a pro Israeli plot.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 321
RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 12:27:25 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


So what if the overwhelming number of Muslims support ISIS

Theyre still all "moderates"

Right?


I think ISIS would disagree. Moderate Muslims are just as bigger enemy to ISIS as none Muslims ISIS call moderate Muslims "hypocrites" and according to a Hadith, "Whenever hypocrites are found, they shall be seized and slain without mercy.” What you also have to remember is, a lot of Muslims aren't Sunni and the majority of Sunni are peaceful people but beside them there are Shi`ite, Ahmadiyyas, Baha’is, Sufis, Alawis, Druze and Alevis Muslims.


There is no moderate in Sanity's world.

There's right and left, there's Islam and us.

That's it. No middle, anywhere.


In knuckle dragger troll world, every thread is about other posters


_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 322
RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 12:27:39 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
Andreas Baader and Ulrike Meinhof were not Muslims.

The wisconsin sikh temple terrorists were not muslim.
The abortion clinic terrorists on their rampages were not muslim.
The Knoxville unitarian universalist church terrorism was not muslim.
The centennial park terrorist bombing in atlanta was not muslim.
Timothy McVeigh was not muslim.


I could go on. And on. And on.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 323
RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 12:28:59 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


So what if the overwhelming number of Muslims support ISIS

Theyre still all "moderates"

Right?


I think ISIS would disagree. Moderate Muslims are just as bigger enemy to ISIS as none Muslims ISIS call moderate Muslims "hypocrites" and according to a Hadith, "Whenever hypocrites are found, they shall be seized and slain without mercy.” What you also have to remember is, a lot of Muslims aren't Sunni and the majority of Sunni are peaceful people but beside them there are Shi`ite, Ahmadiyyas, Baha’is, Sufis, Alawis, Druze and Alevis Muslims.


There is no moderate in Sanity's world.

There's right and left, there's Islam and us.

That's it. No middle, anywhere.


In knuckle dragger troll world, every thread is about other posters


Not surprising when your viewpoint never leaves the mirror.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 324
RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 12:43:30 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

I believe that there is a basic difference of opinion that transcends political affiliations. This difference rises up in every thread of this kind. One side ... me included... think that there is a basic problem in the teaching of Islam that seems to give rise to radicalism in a significant portion of the religions followers. The opposing side seems to believe Islam is a by nature peaceful religion and people like me should not try to hold the religion as a whole at fault.


That's utterly wrong in my own case as well as that of a few others I've seen writing here. However, it does help to explain why I keep seeing these bizarre comments scattered through threads about Islamist terrorism along the lines of 'Ah - that's Muslim "peacefulness" for you!'. For me, the religion isn't the sole determining and fundamental factor behind these acts of terrorism; it's much more just a means of rationalising (in some fuck-headed way) the acts of terrorism. This is why I can never be bothered to engage in debates about what's written in the Koran nor what's meant by what is said in it.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 325
RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 12:50:17 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

The Shoe Bomber was a Muslim
The Beltway Snipers were Muslims
The Fort Hood Shooter was a Muslim
Etc
Etc


I think what all those people have in common is that they liked killing people, El Chupa.

However, fortunately, there are lots more people in the world who don't like seeing people killed. This is why I always rejoice at seeing you post here, because I know that you are one of those people.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to ElChupa)
Profile   Post #: 326
RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 12:55:51 PM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

That's utterly wrong in my own case as well as that of a few others I've seen writing here. However, it does help to explain why I keep seeing these bizarre comments scattered through threads about Islamist terrorism along the lines of 'Ah - that's Muslim "peacefulness" for you!'. For me, the religion isn't the sole determining and fundamental factor behind these acts of terrorism; it's much more just a means of rationalising (in some fuck-headed way) the acts of terrorism. This is why I can never be bothered to engage in debates about what's written in the Koran nor what's meant by what is said in it.


This ^ but then you can't rationalize without knowledge.

_____________________________

My store is http://e-stimstore.com

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 327
RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 12:58:55 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

That's utterly wrong in my own case as well as that of a few others I've seen writing here. However, it does help to explain why I keep seeing these bizarre comments scattered through threads about Islamist terrorism along the lines of 'Ah - that's Muslim "peacefulness" for you!'. For me, the religion isn't the sole determining and fundamental factor behind these acts of terrorism; it's much more just a means of rationalising (in some fuck-headed way) the acts of terrorism. This is why I can never be bothered to engage in debates about what's written in the Koran nor what's meant by what is said in it.


This ^ but then you can't rationalize without knowledge.


Gawd, I think you can, Maria. That's how the word acquired it's pejorative sense - to put a gloss of what looks like reason over something that's not reasonable at all.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 328
RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 1:05:00 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

The Shoe Bomber was a Muslim
The Beltway Snipers were Muslims
The Fort Hood Shooter was a Muslim
Etc
Etc


I think what all those people have in common is that they liked killing people, El Chupa.

However, fortunately, there are lots more people in the world who don't like seeing people killed. This is why I always rejoice at seeing you post here, because I know that you are one of those people.

If this were a gun thread, there'd be endless threads started now about every instance that didn't involve guns.

Yet the concept of instance after instance that doesn't involve Islam proves beyond them.

Reason and logic aren't in play here -- it's "I believe what I want, and facts aren't important."


(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 329
RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 1:07:13 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
FR

Some Arab cartoonists react to the Charlie Hebdo incident:

http://imgur.com/a/zd5rl/

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 330
RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 1:08:01 PM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

The Shoe Bomber was a Muslim
The Beltway Snipers were Muslims
The Fort Hood Shooter was a Muslim
Etc
Etc


I think what all those people have in common is that they liked killing people, El Chupa.

However, fortunately, there are lots more people in the world who don't like seeing people killed. This is why I always rejoice at seeing you post here, because I know that you are one of those people.

If this were a gun thread, there'd be endless threads started now about every instance that didn't involve guns.

Yet the concept of instance after instance that doesn't involve Islam proves beyond them.

Reason and logic aren't in play here -- it's "I believe what I want, and facts aren't important."




How many of them owned a slinky?

Food for thought... the slinky could be the motivating evil behind it all.

Jus sayin

_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 331
RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 1:08:54 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

If this were a gun thread, there'd be endless threads started now about every instance that didn't involve guns.

Yet the concept of instance after instance that doesn't involve Islam proves beyond them.


God yes. Good point.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 332
RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 1:09:51 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

If this were a gun thread, there'd be endless threads started now about every instance that didn't involve guns.

Yet the concept of instance after instance that doesn't involve Islam proves beyond them.


God yes. Good point.


The gendarmes have guns. So both of you are jumping it at the moment.




_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 333
RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 1:10:27 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

How many of them owned a slinky?


... And how many of them had beards? Hmmm?

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to ExiledTyrant)
Profile   Post #: 334
RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 1:14:43 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

The Shoe Bomber was a Muslim
The Beltway Snipers were Muslims
The Fort Hood Shooter was a Muslim
Etc
Etc


I think what all those people have in common is that they liked killing people, El Chupa.

However, fortunately, there are lots more people in the world who don't like seeing people killed. This is why I always rejoice at seeing you post here, because I know that you are one of those people.

If this were a gun thread, there'd be endless threads started now about every instance that didn't involve guns.

Yet the concept of instance after instance that doesn't involve Islam proves beyond them.

Reason and logic aren't in play here -- it's "I believe what I want, and facts aren't important."




How many of them owned a slinky?

Food for thought... the slinky could be the motivating evil behind it all.

Jus sayin


Indeed.

How to make a slinky gun

(in reply to ExiledTyrant)
Profile   Post #: 335
RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 1:38:17 PM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

ElChupa, keep in mind that more moderate Muslims have been beheaded by ISIS than any other faith.

That may be true Maria.

But given however many 000's of incidents (both small and large) that have happened around the globe over the last, I dunno... since 9/11, how many have NOT been of Muslim/Islamic extraction???

By comparison, I posit it's a scant few.


As much as it is wrong to tar all Muslims with the same brush (and I'm not doing that), the mere fact that the majority of attrocities are from Muslim roots (including the Taliban, AQ, ISIS, Boku Haram etc) must surely point to the fact that something isn't right about that particular religion and why so many point fingers in that direction.

Even this latest incident in France is all caused by Islamists NOT being tolerant of satire!
Satirical media has always poked fun at the expense of someone: a person (including politicians, heads of state, religious leaders, the Pope, monarchy etc), peoples (blacks, whites, yellows, reds...), even whole countries, continents and religions.
Whatever your personal views on satire and those that produce it, it is quite popular.
Magazines like Private Eye, Charlie Edbo, even Viz et al, and TV satire like Spitting Image, all create humour of that ilk.
Some don't like it, some get angry, but most (even those that are the subject of said satire) often laugh at it and with it.
Even those minority groups that don't like it wouldn't ever advocate KILLING anyone over it - except Islamists. A lot of Islamics, even friends of mine that I otherwise get on with very well, think it is justified in killing anyone that offends the Quran, the prophet, or the religion.
Whether they themselves would consider actually killing someone is another matter; but they certainly feel that death is justified.
You don't see that sort of reaction amongst other people or religions.

Many Muslims are fine - as long as nobody offends their faith.
It's very reminiscent of the dark ages and the crusaders.
Most of the western world has evolved and "grown up" since those days; Islam has not.
As kd has said several times, they know who these radicals are and instead of outing them, they ignore them or even at times, hide them amongst themselves.

[/EndRant]


_____________________________

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 336
RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 1:40:58 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Andreas Baader and Ulrike Meinhof were not Muslims.

The wisconsin sikh temple terrorists were not muslim.
The abortion clinic terrorists on their rampages were not muslim.
The Knoxville unitarian universalist church terrorism was not muslim.
The centennial park terrorist bombing in atlanta was not muslim.
Timothy McVeigh was not muslim.


I could go on. And on. And on.


No you can't go on and on. The terrorist atrocities perpetrated by Muslims far out number those from other religions.

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 337
RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 1:45:16 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Whether they themselves would consider actually killing someone is another matter; but they certainly feel that death is justified.
You don't see that sort of reaction amongst other people or religions.

Many Muslims are fine - as long as nobody offends their faith.


Yes, you do see that among people of other religions.

Killing abortion doctors comes to mind.

Below are 10 of the worst examples of non-Islamic terrorism that have occurred in the United States in the last 30 years.

1. Wisconsin Sikh Temple massacre, Aug. 5, 2012. The virulent, neocon-fueled Islamophobia that has plagued post-9/11 America has not only posed a threat to Muslims, it has had deadly consequences for people of other faiths, including Sikhs. Sikhs are not Muslims; the traditional Sikh attire, including their turbans, is different from traditional Sunni, Shiite or Sufi attire. But to a racist, a bearded Sikh looks like a Muslim. Only four days after 9/11, Balbir Singh Sodhi, a Sikh immigrant from India who owned a gas station in Mesa, Arizona, was murdered by Frank Silva Roque, a racist who obviously mistook him for a Muslim.

But Sodhi’s murder was not the last example of anti-Sikh violence in post-9/11 America. On Aug. 5, 2012, white supremacist Wade Michael Page used a semiautomatic weapon to murder six people during an attack on a Sikh temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin. Page’s connection to the white supremacist movement was well-documented: he had been a member of the neo-Nazi rock bands End Empathy and Definite Hate. Attorney General Eric Holder described the attack as “an act of terrorism, an act of hatred.” It was good to see the nation’s top cop acknowledge that terrorist acts can, in fact, involve white males murdering people of color.

2. The murder of Dr. George Tiller, May 31, 2009. Imagine that a physician had been the victim of an attempted assassination by an Islamic jihadist in 1993, and received numerous death threats from al-Qaeda after that, before being murdered by an al-Qaeda member. Neocons, Fox News and the Christian Right would have had a field day. A physician was the victim of a terrorist killing that day, but neither the terrorist nor the people who inflamed the terrorist were Muslims. Dr. George Tiller, who was shot and killed by anti-abortion terrorist Scott Roeder on May 31, 2009, was a victim of Christian Right terrorism, not al-Qaeda.

Tiller had a long history of being targeted for violence by Christian Right terrorists. In 1986, his clinic was firebombed. Then, in 1993, Tiller was shot five times by female Christian Right terrorist Shelly Shannon (now serving time in a federal prison) but survived that attack. Given that Tiller had been the victim of an attempted murder and received countless death threats after that, Fox News would have done well to avoid fanning the flames of unrest. Instead, Bill O’Reilly repeatedly referred to him as “Tiller the baby killer." When Roeder murdered Tiller, O’Reilly condemned the attack but did so in a way that was lukewarm at best.

Keith Olbermann called O’Reilly out and denounced him as a “facilitator for domestic terrorism” and a “blindly irresponsible man.” And Crazy for Godauthor Frank Schaffer, who was formerly a figure on the Christian Right but has since become critical of that movement, asserted that the Christian Right’s extreme anti-abortion rhetoric “helped create the climate that made this murder likely to happen.” Neocon Ann Coulter, meanwhile, viewed Tiller’s murder as a source of comic relief, telling O’Reilly, “I don't really like to think of it as a murder. It was terminating Tiller in the 203rd trimester.” The Republican/neocon double standard when it comes to terrorism is obvious. At Fox News and AM neocon talk radio, Islamic terrorism is a source of nonstop fear-mongering, while Christian Right terrorism gets a pass.

3. Knoxville Unitarian Universalist Church shooting, July 27, 2008. On July 27, 2008, Christian Right sympathizer Jim David Adkisson walked into the Knoxville Unitarian Universalist Church in Knoxville, Tennessee during a children’s play and began shooting people at random. Two were killed, while seven others were injured but survived. Adkisson said he was motivated by a hatred of liberals, Democrats and gays, and he considered neocon Bernard Goldberg’s book, 100 People Who Are Screwing Up America, his political manifesto. Adkisson (who pleaded guilty to two counts of first-degree murder and is now serving life in prison without parole) was vehemently anti-abortion, but apparently committing an act of terrorism during a children’s play was good ol’ Republican family values. While Adkisson’s act of terrorism was reported on Fox News, it didn't get the round-the-clock coverage an act of Islamic terrorism would have garnered.

4. The murder of Dr. John Britton, July 29, 1994. To hear the Christian Right tell it, there is no such thing as Christian terrorism. Tell that to the victims of the Army of God, a loose network of radical Christianists with a long history of terrorist attacks on abortion providers. One Christian Right terrorist with ties to the Army of God was Paul Jennings Hill, who was executed by lethal injection on Sept. 3, 2003 for the murders of abortion doctor John Britton and his bodyguard James Barrett. Hill shot both of them in cold blood and expressed no remorse whatsoever; he insisted he was doing’s God’s work and has been exalted as a martyr by the Army of God.

5. The Centennial Olympic Park bombing, July 27, 1996. Paul Jennings Hill is hardly the only Christian terrorist who has been praised by the Army of God; that organization has also praised Eric Rudolph, who is serving life without parole for a long list of terrorist attacks committed in the name of Christianity. Rudolph is best known for carrying out the Olympic Park bombing in Atlanta during the 1996 Summer Olympics—a blast that killed spectator Alice Hawthorne and wounded 111 others. Hawthorne wasn’t the only person Rudolph murdered: his bombing of an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama in 1998 caused the death of Robert Sanderson (a Birmingham police officer and part-time security guard) and caused nurse Emily Lyons to lose an eye.

Rudolph’s other acts of Christian terrorism include bombing the Otherwise Lounge (a lesbian bar in Atlanta) in 1997 and an abortion clinic in an Atlanta suburb in 1997. Rudolph was no lone wolf: he was part of a terrorist movement that encouraged his violence. And the Army of God continues to exalt Rudolph as a brave Christian who is doing God’s work.

6. The murder of Barnett Slepian byJames Charles Kopp, Oct. 23, 1998. Like Paul Jennings Hill, Eric Rudolph and Scott Roeder, James Charles Kopp is a radical Christian terrorist who has been exalted as a hero by the Army of God. On Oct. 23, 1998 Kopp fired a single shot into the Amherst, NY home of Barnett Slepian (a doctor who performed abortions), mortally wounding him. Slepian died an hour later. Kopp later claimed he only meant to wound Slepian, not kill him. But Judge Michael D'Amico of Erin County, NY said that the killing was clearly premeditated and sentenced Kopp to 25 years to life. Kopp is a suspect in other anti-abortion terrorist attacks, including the non-fatal shootings of three doctors in Canada, though it appears unlikely that Kopp will be extradited to Canada to face any charges.

7. Planned Parenthood bombing, Brookline, Massachusetts, 1994. Seldom has the term “Christian terrorist” been used in connection with John C. Salvi on AM talk radio or at Fox News, but it’s a term that easily applies to him. In 1994, the radical anti-abortionist and Army of God member attacked a Planned Parenthood clinic in Brookline, Massachusetts, shooting and killing receptionists Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols and wounding several others. Salvi was found dead in his prison cell in 1996, and his death was ruled a suicide. The Army of God has exalted Salvi as a Christian martyr and described Lowney and Nichols not as victims of domestic terrorism, but as infidels who got what they deserved. The Rev. Donald Spitz, a Christianist and Army of God supporter who is so extreme that even the radical anti-abortion group Operation Rescue disassociated itself from him, has praised Salvi as well.

8. Suicide attack on IRS building in Austin, Texas, Feb. 18, 2010. When Joseph Stack flew a plane into the Echelon office complex (where an IRS office was located), Fox News’ coverage of the incident was calm and matter-of-fact. Republican Rep. Steve King of Iowa seemed to find the attack amusing and joked that it could have been avoided if the federal government had followed his advice and abolished the IRS. Nonetheless, there were two fatalities: Stack and IRS employee Vernon Hunter. Stack left behind a rambling suicide note outlining his reasons for the attack, which included a disdain for the IRS as well as total disgust with health insurance companies and bank bailouts. Some of the most insightful coverage of the incident came from Noam Chomsky, who said that while Stack had some legitimate grievances—millions of Americans shared his outrage over bank bailouts and the practices of health insurance companies—the way he expressed them was absolutely wrong.

9. The murder of Alan Berg, June 18, 1984. One of the most absurd claims some Republicans have made about white supremacists is that they are liberals and progressives. That claim is especially ludicrous in light of the terrorist killing of liberal Denver-based talk show host Alan Berg, a critic of white supremacists who was killed with an automatic weapon on June 18, 1984. The killing was linked to members of the Order, a white supremacist group that had marked Berg for death. Order members David Lane (a former Ku Klux Klan member who had also been active in the Aryan Nations) and Bruce Pierce were both convicted in federal court on charges of racketeering, conspiracy and violating Berg’s civil rights and given what amounted to life sentences.

Robert Matthews, who founded the Order, got that name from a fictional group in white supremacist William Luther Pierce’s anti-Semitic 1978 novel, The Turner Diaries—a book Timothy McVeigh was quite fond of. The novel’s fictional account of the destruction of a government building has been described as the inspiration for the Oklahoma City bombing of 1995.

10. Timothy McVeigh and the Oklahoma City bombing, April 19, 1995. Neocons and Republicans grow angry and uncomfortable whenever Timothy McVeigh is cited as an example of a non-Islamic terrorist. Pointing out that a non-Muslim white male carried out an attack as vicious and deadly as the Oklahoma City bombing doesn’t fit into their narrative that only Muslims and people of color are capable of carrying out terrorist attacks. Neocons will claim that bringing up McVeigh’s name during a discussion of terrorism is a “red herring” that distracts us from fighting radical Islamists, but that downplays the cruel, destructive nature of the attack.

Prior to the al-Qaeda attacks of 9/11, the Oklahoma City bombing McVeigh orchestrated was the most deadly terrorist attack in U.S. history: 168 people were killed and more than 600 were injured. When McVeigh drove a truck filled with explosives into the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building, his goal was to kill as many people as possible. Clearly, McVeigh was not motivated by radical Islam; rather, he was motivated by an extreme hatred for the U.S. government and saw the attack as revenge for the Ruby Ridge incident of 1992 and the Waco Siege in 1993. He had white supremacist leanings as well (when he was in the U.S. Army, McVeigh was reprimanded for wearing a “white power” T-shirt he had bought at a KKK demonstration). McVeigh was executed on June 11, 2001. He should have served life without parole instead, as a living reminder of the type of viciousness the extreme right is capable of.


Then there's Buddhism and violence:

South-East Asia
Thailand

In Southeast Asia, Thailand has had several prominent virulent Buddhist monastic calls for violence. In the 1970s, Buddhist monks like Phra Kittiwuttho argued that killing Communists did not violate any of the Buddhist precepts (Jerryson 2011, 110).[2] The militant side of Thai Buddhism became prominent again in 2004 when a Malay Muslim insurgency renewed in Thailand's deep south. Since January 2004, the Thai government has converted Buddhist monasteries into military outposts and commissioned Buddhist military monks and give support for Buddhist vigilante squads (Jerryson 2011, 114-141).[2]
Myanmar

In 1930s Rangoon, nationalist monks stabbed four Europeans.[3] Myanmar had become a strong hold of Buddhist aggression and such acts are spurred by hardline monks.[4][5][6] The oldest militant organisation active in the region is Democratic Karen Buddhist Army (DKBA), headed by a Buddhist monk U Thuzana, since 1992.[7] In the recent years the monks, and the terrorist acts, are associated with the 969 Movement particularly in Myanmar and neighboring nations.[8][9] "969" refers to numbers associated with the Buddha, his teachings and monkhood (also known as Bhikkhu). As of 2012, the "969" movement by monks had helped create anti-Islamic nationalist movements in the region, and have urged Myanmar Buddhists to boycott Muslim services and trades, resulting in persecution of Muslims in Burma and Buddhist mob calls for a Muslim extermination.[8][10]

Buddhist violence in Myanmar are the ethnic terror attacks, particularly against the Rohingya people and other Muslims in the region. The terror attacks were motivated by Buddhist monks (the prominent among whom is Wirathu) with the creation of the 969 Movement.[11] The violence reached prominence in June 2012 when more than 200 people were killed and around 100,000 were displaced.[12][13] According to the Human Rights Watch report, the Burmese government and local authorities played a key role in the forcible displacement of more than 125,000 Rohingya and other Muslims in the region. The report further specifies the coordinated attacks of October 2012 that were carried out in different cities by Burmese officials, community leaders and Buddhist monks to terrorize and forcibly relocate the population.[14] The violence of Meiktila, Lashio (2013) and Mandalay (2014) are the latest Buddhist violence in Burma.[15][16][17][18]

Michael Jerryson, author of several books heavily critical of Buddhism's traditional peaceful perceptions, stated that, "The Burmese Buddhist monks may not have initiated the violence but they rode the wave and began to incite more. While the ideals of Buddhist canonical texts promote peace and pacifism, discrepancies between reality and precepts easily flourish in times of social, political and economic insecurity, such as Myanmar's current transition to democracy."[19]
South Asia
Sri Lanka

During the Sri Lankan Civil War (1983-2009), Buddhist monks urged the government to take aggressive stances against the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE).[20] Dr. Tessa Bartholomeusz, professor at the Department of Religion, of Florida State University writes in her book In Defense of Dharma: Just-War Ideology in Buddhist Sri Lanka that prominent Buddhist monks in Sri Lanka advocate a "just war ideology" against LTTE.[20]

A Buddhist group, Bodu Bala Sena (BBS), had expressed concerns about the growth of the Muslim economy in Sri Lanka and urged the fellow Buddhist to boycott such products manufactured and sold at Muslim retail chains. In response to the appeal in March 2013, a bhikkhu led a group of hundreds of Buddhists to confront a Muslim-owned retail chain in Colombo. The BBS had organized a moral unofficial police team to check the activities of Christian missionaries and Muslim influence in daily life.[9][21][22] A Buddhist mob also attacked a Colombo mosque in August 2013.[23]
East Asia
Japan
Kasumigaseki Station in Japan, one of the many stations affected during the attack by Aum Shinrikyo cult.

The beginning of "Buddhist violence" in Japan relates to long history of feuds amongst Buddhists. The Sōhei or "warrior monks" appeared during the Heian period, although the seeming contradiction in being a Buddhist "warrior monk" caused controversy even at the time.[24] More directly linked is that the Ikkō-shū movement was considered an inspiration to Buddhists in the Ikkō-ikki rebellion. In Osaka they defended their temple with the slogan "The mercy of Buddha should be recompensed even by pounding flesh to pieces. One's obligation to the Teacher should be recompensed even by smashing bones to bits!"[25]

In more modern times instances of Buddhist-inspired terrorism or militarism have occurred in Japan, such as the Ketsumeidan assassinations led by Nichiren Buddhist preacher Nissho Inoue.[26] The Zen priest Brian Daizen Victoria documented in his book Zen at War how Buddhist institutions justified Japanese militarism in official publications and cooperated with the Japanese Army in the Russo-Japanese War and World War II. In response to the book, several sects issued an apology for their wartime support of the government.[27]

Aum Shinrikyo, the shinshūkyō that unleashed Sarin gas into the Tokyo subway and killed thirteen people, injuring fifty, drew upon Buddhist ideas and scriptures. Religious studies scholar Ian Reader notes how Aum "emphasized its use and command of esoteric and tantric Buddhist practices," published magazines called Mahayana and Vajrayana Sacca, and advocated Tibetan Buddhist ideas of the Bardo and phowa (1996, 16-17). The religious justification for Aum Shinrikyo's use of violence was connected to Buddhist rationalizations of taking the lives of "less spiritually advanced" beings, and that killing a person in danger of accumulating bad karma in this life was to save them in the next life, thereby advancing them toward salvation.[28] While many discount Aum Shinrikyo's Buddhist characteristics and affiliation to Buddhism, scholars often refer to it as an off-shoot of Japanese Buddhism,[29] and this was how the movement generally defined and saw itself.[30] In a later work Ian Reader cautions that its self-definition as Buddhist might appear dubious to other Buddhists and that at its root Aum was a "charismatic religious movement" framed around an individual figure. He notes it had Hindu and Christian influences but that its primary focus was Buddhism.[31]
Central Asia
Tibet

One of the celebrated rituals in Tibetan Buddhism is the Tibetan monastic assassination in 841 of King Langdarma. According to the Chos 'byung me tog snying po the Tibetan king had supported Bon, the indigenous religion of Tibet, over Buddhism and reduced the political support of Buddhist monasteries.[32] Later the differing schools of Tibetan Buddhism would occasionally fight each other, although mainly for political reasons, with sectarian disputes between the Kagyu and Gelug schools playing a role in a Tibetan civil war.[33][34]

After the 2008 unrest in Tibet, the official stance of the Chinese government has been that the Dalai Lama helped to orchestrate the unrest and violence. A Chinese Ministry of Public Security spokesperson claimed searches of monasteries in the Tibetan capital had turned up a large cache of weapons, including 176 guns and 7,725 pounds of explosives.[35]


Shall I move on to the Hindus, or are you getting the idea?



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 1/9/2015 1:49:24 PM >

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 338
RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 1:45:47 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
You of course have irrefutable proof of that, say starting around the time of recorded history and to the present day, and yes I can go on and on.

Or are we picking terrorism as a matter of two dates of which you choose so that your numbers work (and you are given an allie allie in free on our excursion into Iraq, the Nazis, Il Duce, and so on?

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 339
RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 1:57:40 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

I believe that there is a basic difference of opinion that transcends political affiliations. This difference rises up in every thread of this kind. One side ... me included... think that there is a basic problem in the teaching of Islam that seems to give rise to radicalism in a significant portion of the religions followers. The opposing side seems to believe Islam is a by nature peaceful religion and people like me should not try to hold the religion as a whole at fault.


That's utterly wrong in my own case as well as that of a few others I've seen writing here. However, it does help to explain why I keep seeing these bizarre comments scattered through threads about Islamist terrorism along the lines of 'Ah - that's Muslim "peacefulness" for you!'. For me, the religion isn't the sole determining and fundamental factor behind these acts of terrorism; it's much more just a means of rationalising (in some fuck-headed way) the acts of terrorism. This is why I can never be bothered to engage in debates about what's written in the Koran nor what's meant by what is said in it.

To condemn the branch of Islam that thinks this is fine is not to condemn all of Islam. As someone pointed out there are more Islamic victims of this terror than non-Islamic victims. To condemn all of Islam would be foolish and perhaps xenopohbic. To ignore the role of their interpretation of the Koran in their actions is equally foolish.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 340
Page:   <<   < prev  15 16 [17] 18 19   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: 12 dead in Paris Page: <<   < prev  15 16 [17] 18 19   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109