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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 1:59:10 PM   
lovmuffin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

You of course have irrefutable proof of that, say starting around the time of recorded history and to the present day, and yes I can go on and on.

Or are we picking terrorism as a matter of two dates of which you choose so that your numbers work (and you are given an allie allie in free on our excursion into Iraq, the Nazis, Il Duce, and so on?


How about Allie Allie in free and set the goal post at around 1970 and on.....or so.

_____________________________

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"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 2:05:57 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		FR

Report out that Al Qaeda has claimed "credit" for the attack in France.

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People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 2:10:23 PM   
kdsub


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Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

Holy shit, Michael -- talk about cherry picking!

How about choosing bombing abortion clinics or murdering abortion doctors? Seems that's a fairer comparison, if that's where you want to go.


Muse your statement is like saying a cold is as bad as Ebola... Yes people do die of a cold... but a hell of a lot more die from Ebola...How many abortion clinics can you list bombed and abortion doctors shot? Then compare them to Islamic violence... There is a difference and I don't think cherry picking is a good analogy.

But again...one evil does not justify another... and in this thread we are talking about the other.

Butch




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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 2:14:26 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

Holy shit, Michael -- talk about cherry picking!

How about choosing bombing abortion clinics or murdering abortion doctors? Seems that's a fairer comparison, if that's where you want to go.


Muse your statement is like saying a cold is as bad as Ebola... Yes people do die of a cold... but a hell of a lot more die from Ebola...How many abortion clinics can you list bombed and abortion doctors shot? Then compare them to Islamic violence... There is a difference and I don't think cherry picking is a good analogy.

But again...one evil does not justify another... and in this thread we are talking about the other.

Butch




Given his comparison was people praying outside a clinic, it's a damn site closer.

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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 2:15:30 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

For me, the religion isn't the sole determining and fundamental factor behind these acts of terrorism


No snark intended Peon... but please lets here the other factors... Now I am not so naive as to think certain nations that benefit from these conflicts may not supply and instigate the terrorists. But this is different then the reason those actually performing these despicable acts do so. I believe it is their religious beliefs that drive them to murder and NO other reason... even if they are used by others.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 1/9/2015 2:40:20 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 2:15:31 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR

Report out that Al Qaeda has claimed "credit" for the attack in France.

You mean that group that opposes Saudi Arabia? You know, that Muslim country?

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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 2:29:52 PM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Whether they themselves would consider actually killing someone is another matter; but they certainly feel that death is justified.
You don't see that sort of reaction amongst other people or religions.

Many Muslims are fine - as long as nobody offends their faith.


Yes, you do see that among people of other religions.
<snip>
Shall I move on to the Hindus, or are you getting the idea?



Nope.
Carry on quoting everything you can find.... seriously, please do.
It's still a drop in the ocean compared to attrocities performed by Islamists of various factions over the last decade or two.

Any more excuses?
The Islamists have single-handedly instilled fear and irrational behaviour throughout the western world more than anything or anyone else.



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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 2:52:54 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Tell yourself that if it gets you hard.

Enjoy!

Your claim was that you don't see that among other religions. I've shown that you do...and you've decided to move the goal posts.

If you want to claim Islam historically carries most of it, you'll have to provide proof other than your beaten chest.

Link to some credible study, I'll take a look.

Otherwise, don't forget to clean up the cum when you're done.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 1/9/2015 3:04:13 PM >

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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 2:58:47 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

For me, the religion isn't the sole determining and fundamental factor behind these acts of terrorism


No snark intended Peon... but please lets here the other factors... Now I am not so naive as to think certain nations that benefit from these conflicts may not supply and instigate the terrorists. But this is different then the reason those actually performing these despicable acts do so. I believe it is their religious beliefs that drive them to murder and NO other reason... even if they are used by others.

Butch



Nothing simple and straightforward - like religious determinism - Butch. But, then, the causes of world phenomena are seldom simple and straightforward. For me, the growth of Islamic terrorism is the result of a 'perfect storm' of mainly political and economic factors. Here's an essay on it which I think is well worth a read:

http://dougsaunders.net/2013/04/muslim-immigrants-terrorists-jihad-terrorism/

Amongst many things that are debunked is the idea that the more devout a Muslim you are, the more likely you are to turn into a terrorist. In fact, the opposite is nearer the truth.

An excerpt:

"... The study concluded that four factors were leading to terrorist radicalization: “trauma,” such as the death of a loved one (10% of terror suspects had experienced this); immigration without family members (a third of extremists had “migrated to Britain alone” as students or labourers); “criminal activity” (two-thirds had criminal records); and “prison” (many were radicalized while serving time).

Indeed, religious devotion simply does not correlate with violent radicalism. In one study, the Gallup organization examined the 7% of Muslims worldwide who are considered “radical”—that is, who condone the September 11 attacks and view the United States unfavourably—and found that they are no more religious than the general population of Muslims. Pew, in 2008, found that the proportion of non-religious German Muslims who said that “attacks on civilians cannot be morally justified” (94%) was identical to that of religious believers who said the same (94%). In France, it was 94% of religious French Muslims and 82% of the nonreligious; 90% of religious British Muslims and 87% of the nonreligious disapproved of attacks on civilians.

Jihadist terrorism became a phenomenon in the West starting in the early 1990s as an extreme political response to the presence of Western soldiers in Islamic lands. It has continued to follow this political path. While this means that adherents must believe in the existence of an inviolate “land of Islam,” it does not mean that they are otherwise the most devout religious believers...."

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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 3:04:33 PM   
mnottertail


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Joined: 11/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

You of course have irrefutable proof of that, say starting around the time of recorded history and to the present day, and yes I can go on and on.

Or are we picking terrorism as a matter of two dates of which you choose so that your numbers work (and you are given an allie allie in free on our excursion into Iraq, the Nazis, Il Duce, and so on?


How about Allie Allie in free and set the goal post at around 1970 and on.....or so.


Then we have the christians killing the buddhists; Vietnam. Nope, aint got your numbers in there.

4 dead in ohio, 'republicans' against Americans.

Etc.



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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 3:06:40 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

Holy shit, Michael -- talk about cherry picking!

How about choosing bombing abortion clinics or murdering abortion doctors? Seems that's a fairer comparison, if that's where you want to go.


Muse your statement is like saying a cold is as bad as Ebola... Yes people do die of a cold... but a hell of a lot more die from Ebola...How many abortion clinics can you list bombed and abortion doctors shot? Then compare them to Islamic violence... There is a difference and I don't think cherry picking is a good analogy.

But again...one evil does not justify another... and in this thread we are talking about the other.

Butch






Tell that to mnott


_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 3:14:34 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

You of course have irrefutable proof of that, say starting around the time of recorded history and to the present day, and yes I can go on and on.

Or are we picking terrorism as a matter of two dates of which you choose so that your numbers work (and you are given an allie allie in free on our excursion into Iraq, the Nazis, Il Duce, and so on?


How about Allie Allie in free and set the goal post at around 1970 and on.....or so.


Then we have the christians killing the buddhists; Vietnam. Nope, aint got your numbers in there.

4 dead in ohio, 'republicans' against Americans.

Etc.




Muslin fundamentalist terrorism is world wide. Many of the things you listed in the U.S. were perpetrated by Christian racist assholes and the numbers dead just don't add up to the Muslims. Aside from OKC, Christian terrorism pales in comparison to Muslims acts of terror.

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 3:16:20 PM   
Aylee


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Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Whether they themselves would consider actually killing someone is another matter; but they certainly feel that death is justified.
You don't see that sort of reaction amongst other people or religions.

Many Muslims are fine - as long as nobody offends their faith.


Yes, you do see that among people of other religions.
<snip>
Shall I move on to the Hindus, or are you getting the idea?



Nope.
Carry on quoting everything you can find.... seriously, please do.
It's still a drop in the ocean compared to attrocities performed by Islamists of various factions over the last decade or two.

Any more excuses?
The Islamists have single-handedly instilled fear and irrational behaviour throughout the western world more than anything or anyone else.




What about yesterday's 2000 dead in Nigeria along with several villages burnt by Boko Haram? (Anyone wonder if they DO want the young boys as Janissaries?)

Seriously, don't you think that if this kind of thing keeps up people might start getting the idea that Islam is violent or something?

The point being that while many are trying to use the last two decades to find atrocities from other groups, that does not need to happen so much with the Religion of Peace.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 3:19:14 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

You of course have irrefutable proof of that, say starting around the time of recorded history and to the present day, and yes I can go on and on.

Or are we picking terrorism as a matter of two dates of which you choose so that your numbers work (and you are given an allie allie in free on our excursion into Iraq, the Nazis, Il Duce, and so on?


How about Allie Allie in free and set the goal post at around 1970 and on.....or so.


Then we have the christians killing the buddhists; Vietnam. Nope, aint got your numbers in there.

4 dead in ohio, 'republicans' against Americans.

Etc.




Muslin fundamentalist terrorism is world wide. Many of the things you listed in the U.S. were perpetrated by Christian racist assholes and the numbers dead just don't add up to the Muslims. Aside from OKC, Christian terrorism pales in comparison to Muslims acts of terror.

You'd be hard pressed to find a credible study that demonstrates that.

But share it if you've got it. Otherwise, join fd in the wanking corner.

(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 354
RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 3:21:32 PM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Tell yourself that if it gets you hard.

Enjoy!

Your claim was that you don't see that among other religions. I've shown that you do...and you've decided to move the goal posts.

If you want to claim Islam historically carries most of it, you'll have to provide proof other than your beaten chest.

Link to some credible study, I'll take a look.

Otherwise, don't forget to clean up the cum when you're done.

Of the 'acknowledged' 25 worst ever acts of terrorism committed, 18 of the top 19 were done by Islamics.
Source: http://list25.com/25-worst-acts-terrorism-committed/

More 'Worst terrorist strikes--worldwide'. Mostly Islamic.
Source: http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/wrjp255i.html


_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


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Profile   Post #: 355
RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 3:25:18 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		That says nothing about most -- just notable successes.

Which religion is the most violent?

The analysis presents some challenges. Should the answer be based purely on a body count? Professor Juan Cole casually estimates that Christians chalked up roughly 50 times more violent deaths than Muslims across the past century. That, however, doesn’t necessarily prove that Christianity is more violent. It just demonstrates a high level of efficiency. To answer the question we need more than a raw death toll.

When measuring violence, should grievances count as mitigating factors? When a Christian Lebanese militia spent two days in a besieged Palestinian refugee camp raping and slaughtering civilians under Israeli supervision, ought they be excused by the previous Muslim slaughter that inspired it? And should the Muslim slaughter be excused by the Christian slaughter that inspired it? Who is guiltier, the chicken or the egg?

A look at each religion’s holy books won’t provide much guidance. Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists will all point out the ways their religion embraces compassion, humility, and humanity. They will all be correct. Their detractors will point out the ways their foundation texts promote violence. They will also be correct.

Read more: http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/just-enough-city/2013/may/1/which-religion-most-violent/#ixzz3OMyeyfUf


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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 3:30:43 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

You of course have irrefutable proof of that, say starting around the time of recorded history and to the present day, and yes I can go on and on.

Or are we picking terrorism as a matter of two dates of which you choose so that your numbers work (and you are given an allie allie in free on our excursion into Iraq, the Nazis, Il Duce, and so on?


How about Allie Allie in free and set the goal post at around 1970 and on.....or so.


Then we have the christians killing the buddhists; Vietnam. Nope, aint got your numbers in there.

4 dead in ohio, 'republicans' against Americans.

Etc.




Muslin fundamentalist terrorism is world wide. Many of the things you listed in the U.S. were perpetrated by Christian racist assholes and the numbers dead just don't add up to the Muslims. Aside from OKC, Christian terrorism pales in comparison to Muslims acts of terror.



I did not list Vietnam as occurring in the US. Even a reactionary does not believe that hot air rises downwards. Nor did I list Iraq as occurring in the US, and before you fuck this all up again, I will not say that the rape of Nanking occurred in the US (however the terroristic killing of native americans and interment of Asians did. As did the lynching and murder of blacks.)

Don't tell me shit you have proved yourself innumerate. You can strain at gnats all you want, but I would say that any of these would outdo the current islamic terrorism numbers.

But lets hold up and think. Why didnt this middle eastern terrorism happen when we were children? What brought it on? What brought it to America? Why isn't it in Trinidad and Tobago, or Switzerland, or Norway, or .........




< Message edited by mnottertail -- 1/9/2015 3:35:33 PM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 357
RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 3:30:56 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Thanks Peon... I did read the link. To me the whole article just said that the terrorists came from all walks of life with varying and different degrees of religious fervor. Below is the first paragraph in the piece.

"Jihadist terrorists are religious believers: that much is undeniable. They invoke Allah and the Koran, they denounce their targets for being unholy, they speak of a divine calling and a scriptural obligation to avenge the “crusader” and the “infidel.”"

All the reasons you and the article have listed state why the terrorists chose to follow the literal teaching of their religion... but it is these literal teachings they followed for whatever reason.

By the way you did read where it said these men and woman were NOT mentally ill... a big contention between tweak and others and myself.

I have never said a devout Muslim is more likely to be a terrorists... Although I do believe many are... just as well as many or not... to me a terrorists is just that a terrorists...what inspired them is important but does not absolve the religion that guides them.

I see nothing in this article that disavows the religion of Islam as not being the main guiding force of the terrorist. I do understand how someone dying or in financial crisis may take money in return for their life as a suicide bomber... but this is still done in the name of the religion.

So I guess we will take different things from your link and have different opinions... But thanks for posting the link and explaining your position... Many would just rather spew disparaging remarks and not take the time to explain themselves.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 1/9/2015 3:37:57 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 358
RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 3:32:00 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Tell yourself that if it gets you hard.

Enjoy!

Your claim was that you don't see that among other religions. I've shown that you do...and you've decided to move the goal posts.

If you want to claim Islam historically carries most of it, you'll have to provide proof other than your beaten chest.

Link to some credible study, I'll take a look.

Otherwise, don't forget to clean up the cum when you're done.

Of the 'acknowledged' 25 worst ever acts of terrorism committed, 18 of the top 19 were done by Islamics.
Source: http://list25.com/25-worst-acts-terrorism-committed/

More 'Worst terrorist strikes--worldwide'. Mostly Islamic.
Source: http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/wrjp255i.html



What's the difference between a terrorist and a patriot?

A patriot lives to write about it.


_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 359
RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/9/2015 3:33:27 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

You of course have irrefutable proof of that, say starting around the time of recorded history and to the present day, and yes I can go on and on.

Or are we picking terrorism as a matter of two dates of which you choose so that your numbers work (and you are given an allie allie in free on our excursion into Iraq, the Nazis, Il Duce, and so on?


How about Allie Allie in free and set the goal post at around 1970 and on.....or so.


Then we have the christians killing the buddhists; Vietnam. Nope, aint got your numbers in there.

4 dead in ohio, 'republicans' against Americans.

Etc.




Muslin fundamentalist terrorism is world wide. Many of the things you listed in the U.S. were perpetrated by Christian racist assholes and the numbers dead just don't add up to the Muslims. Aside from OKC, Christian terrorism pales in comparison to Muslims acts of terror.

You'd be hard pressed to find a credible study that demonstrates that.

But share it if you've got it. Otherwise, join fd in the wanking corner.


fd just shared it with you. Not interested in a wank fest with fd but you can join some of your other buddies here and have yer selves yer own circle jerk


_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 360
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