RE: 12 dead in Paris (Full Version)

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MariaB -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/10/2015 7:15:37 AM)

What has unfolded over the last few days in France is horrific and regardless of what FD's Muslim friends say, moderate Muslims will be just as horrified by this act as the rest of us. What we in Europe should be aware of is, the same model of propaganda against immigrants (particularly Muslims) is presently being used by our governments and popular press as the propaganda machine of post WW2 Germany against the Jews and gypsies.

The Muslims don't frighten me but the propaganda spin and the way people believe it scares the hell out of me.




Lucylastic -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/10/2015 7:18:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

What has unfolded over the last few days in France is horrific and regardless of what FD's Muslim friends say, moderate Muslims will be just as horrified by this act as the rest of us. What we in Europe should be aware of is, the same model of propaganda against immigrants (particularly Muslims) is presently being used by our governments and popular press as the propaganda machine of post WW2 Germany against the Jews and gypsies.

The Muslims don't frighten me but the propaganda spin and the way people believe it scares the hell out of me.

This
amazing how many people are talking extermination of Islam
"Good Christians" all of em,
UGH




freedomdwarf1 -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/10/2015 7:18:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

You talk like all terrorism is islamic. it ain't.
<snip>

Quote all you like... but tell me where I said that.
I didn't.

What I did claim was that Islamics have single-handedly instilled more fear factor than anyone or anything else.
I have never said that all terrorism is Islamic - that's your words, not mine.


That is your perception based on how the media want you to feel. What is your definition of terrorism? would you consider Russia fighting the Ukraines a terrorist attack?. Do you consider the attacks from the west on various countries in the middle east terrorist attacks?



Firstly, it is what I feel - not what the media wants me to feel (I often disregard or refute media broadcasts, especially from the US).

My definition of terrorism is precisely what the word means - to instill or invoke terror in society.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Snippets from Wiki -
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_terrorism
...the international community adopted a series of sectoral conventions that define and criminalize various types of terrorist activities. In addition, since 1994, the United Nations General Assembly has condemned terrorist acts using the following political description of terrorism: "Criminal acts intended or calculated to provoke a state of terror in the general public, a group of persons or particular persons for political purposes are in any circumstance unjustifiable, whatever the considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or any other nature that may be invoked to justify them

The word "terrorism" was first recorded in English-language dictionaries in 1798 as meaning "systematic use of terror as a policy".

According to Dr Myra Williamson: "The meaning of “terrorism” has undergone a transformation. During the reign of terror a regime or system of terrorism was used as an instrument of governance, wielded by a recently established revolutionary state against the enemies of the people. Now the term “terrorism” is commonly used to describe terrorist acts committed by non-state or subnational entities against a state.

Ben Saul has noted that a "A combination of pragmatic and principled arguments supports the case for defining terrorism in international law", including the need to condemn violations to Human rights, to protect the state and deliberative politics, to differentiate public and private Violence, and to ensure International Peace and Security.


And to your question: "Do you consider the attacks from the west on various countries in the middle east terrorist attacks?" no, I don't.
Unnecessary at times, yes. But not a "terrorist" attack.




freedomdwarf1 -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/10/2015 7:22:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

What has unfolded over the last few days in France is horrific and regardless of what FD's Muslim friends say, moderate Muslims will be just as horrified by this act as the rest of us.

Yes, they are equally horrified.
But, they still say that death is justified - regardless of who actually carried it out.

There's the difference between many Islamics (and not all, before you jump the gun), and other groups of people.

And you are saying we should disregard Muslim views because some moderates disagree with their own kind?
I posit they are saying that to the media to shift blame. But under their breath they are glad that Islam, their prophet, and their Quran have been avenged.
And don't say it isn't so because I've had that said to me first hand from local people that I know.




BamaD -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/10/2015 7:29:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

For another group of people pretty upset about the French terrorists: http://news.yahoo.com/french-imams-rail-against-crazies-seized-religion-232602712.html


"Hezbollah leader says Muslim extremists harm Islam more than those who published satirical cartoons"

This, from a designated Muslim terrorist leader.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/01/09/hezbollah-leader-says-muslim-extremists-harm-islam-more-than-those-who-published-satirical-cartoons/

I saw that, good for him.




BamaD -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/10/2015 7:32:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR

It has been reported that the 18 year old who surrendered had already been convicted of terrorism in France, why was he out walking around?


Can someone tell him he is talking nonsense, since he has me on hide (allegedly)

The kid was at school all day yesterday and handed himself in to local police when he saw his name on social media.



First tell us which part is bullshit. That the kid surrendered or that he has a past criminal history?


Fuck you.... Try something radical like reading the news, or using google. I did, before I posted.

And yeah, Bamas claim is bullshit.




So in other words once again you are not going to back up the bullshit that flows so freely from your keyboard. What a shock.

An intelligent person would note that I said there was a report, not that it was a fact.




GoddessManko -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/10/2015 7:39:16 AM)

My condolences extended to everyone living in Paris and greater France. Terrorist attacks take their toll on the greater population who may not have been caught in the crossfire and I wish them the best. I'm sure this tragedy even took place.




DaddySatyr -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/10/2015 7:43:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I saw the Muslims, here, dancing for joy, when the towers fell.



That surprises me and I'd like to know more.

Whereabouts and how many were involved?



I think you and Sanity both missed my point, when I said the terrorists are winning. What is the goal of terrorism? To effect political change through terror; fear? We're agreed? Then, they're winning. It's working.

As far as the dancing I mentioned, it was at the Mosque in South Brunswick, NJ on US 1 (4154 US 1 South, if memory serves) and Promenade Blvd..

What's interesting is they didn't just walk outside their houses (South Brunswick has a sizable Middle-Eastern/Asian Muslim population). They bothered to go to the mosque to "celebrate".

I have looked for "proof" since I know some asshole will come along and demand some but I can find none of the news reports on Youtube. The "dancers" were attacked by some South Jersey Good-ol' boy types so the event made the news (and yes, there was footage of the dancing from THAT mosque shown on the news reports).



Michael




kdsub -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/10/2015 7:59:14 AM)

quote:

This
amazing how many people are talking extermination of Islam
"Good Christians" all of em,
UGH


Lucy... I must admit i do not read every post... but who is saying this... come to think of it there is one but he posts and no one answers him knowing he is outside reality...but you did use the plural .

Butch




freedomdwarf1 -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/10/2015 8:01:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I saw the Muslims, here, dancing for joy, when the towers fell.



That surprises me and I'd like to know more.

Whereabouts and how many were involved?



I think you and Sanity both missed my point, when I said the terrorists are winning. What is the goal of terrorism? To effect political change through terror; fear? We're agreed? Then, they're winning. It's working.

As far as the dancing I mentioned, it was at the Mosque in South Brunswick, NJ on US 1 (4154 US 1 South, if memory serves) and Promenade Blvd..

What's interesting is they didn't just walk outside their houses (South Brunswick has a sizable Middle-Eastern/Asian Muslim population). They bothered to go to the mosque to "celebrate".

I have looked for "proof" since I know some asshole will come along and demand some but I can find none of the news reports on Youtube. The "dancers" were attacked by some South Jersey Good-ol' boy types so the event made the news (and yes, there was footage of the dancing from THAT mosque shown on the news reports).



Michael


Yes, there WAS dancing in the streets!

It is reported -
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/41898/911-muslim-attacks-on-us-remember-what-happened-who-did-it-who-celebrated/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactions_to_the_September_11_attacks

And on Youtube -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrM0dAFsZ8k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5BtQgTGOI4


And THIS is quite an eye opener!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxdoztoBEuc




BamaD -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/10/2015 8:36:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

This
amazing how many people are talking extermination of Islam
"Good Christians" all of em,
UGH


Lucy... I must admit i do not read every post... but who is saying this... come to think of it there is one but he posts and no one answers him knowing he is outside reality...but you did use the plural .

Butch

By their own rules the extermination the THE TERRORIST seems to be necessary. Knowing this is not a call for the extermination of Islam, unless you believe that all Muslims are terrorists.




DaddySatyr -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/10/2015 8:58:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Yes, there WAS dancing in the streets!

It is reported -
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/41898/911-muslim-attacks-on-us-remember-what-happened-who-did-it-who-celebrated/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactions_to_the_September_11_attacks

And on Youtube -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrM0dAFsZ8k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5BtQgTGOI4


And THIS is quite an eye opener!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxdoztoBEuc



While I appreciate the attempted support, none of those is the specific incident to which I referred. The first didn't happen in the US and has been making the rounds, a lot, lately. It was an anniversary celebration.

The incident I was referencing absolutely happened on 11 SEP., 2001 and it was televised (The local cable news NEWS12 still had the ability to broadcast that evening). The TV transmitters for the "major" TV stations, in New York (and therefore, South Brunswick, NJ) were on top of Tower 1 and were useless after about 10:00 or so, that morning.

I do remember seeing short clips from the South Brunswick ruckus on national broadcasts, when TV service was restored. They were just little bits of "B roll", in those instances.

I need to go and dig into the Home News Tribune archives and see if I can find the newspaper stories.



Michael




Sanity -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/10/2015 9:20:13 AM)

NM




MariaB -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/10/2015 9:24:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

What has unfolded over the last few days in France is horrific and regardless of what FD's Muslim friends say, moderate Muslims will be just as horrified by this act as the rest of us.

Yes, they are equally horrified.
But, they still say that death is justified - regardless of who actually carried it out.



Who is "they" and who are they saying this to?

quote:


There's the difference between many Islamics (and not all, before you jump the gun), and other groups of people.

And you are saying we should disregard Muslim views because some moderates disagree with their own kind?
I posit they are saying that to the media to shift blame. But under their breath they are glad that Islam, their prophet, and their Quran have been avenged.


Or so you like to believe. The reality is, you have little to no evidence of this...its as simple as, that is what you believe.

quote:



And don't say it isn't so because I've had that said to me first hand from local people that I know.



And how do you know that the Muslims you know aren't fundamentalists? I know a lot more Muslims than you do and none of them share this view. Even if they felt it they would never speak it; certainly not to a none Muslim.




BamaD -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/10/2015 9:35:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

What has unfolded over the last few days in France is horrific and regardless of what FD's Muslim friends say, moderate Muslims will be just as horrified by this act as the rest of us.

Yes, they are equally horrified.
But, they still say that death is justified - regardless of who actually carried it out.



Who is "they" and who are they saying this to?

quote:


There's the difference between many Islamics (and not all, before you jump the gun), and other groups of people.

And you are saying we should disregard Muslim views because some moderates disagree with their own kind?
I posit they are saying that to the media to shift blame. But under their breath they are glad that Islam, their prophet, and their Quran have been avenged.


Or so you like to believe. The reality is, you have little to no evidence of this...its as simple as, that is what you believe.

quote:



And don't say it isn't so because I've had that said to me first hand from local people that I know.



And how do you know that the Muslims you know aren't fundamentalists? I know a lot more Muslims than you do and none of them share this view. Even if they felt it they would never speak it; certainly not to a none Muslim.


You know lots of Muslims, but not even one is a fundamentalist?




MariaB -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/10/2015 9:49:13 AM)

Yep, I know lots of Muslims and no, not a single one, as far as I'm aware hold militant ideologies.




BamaD -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/10/2015 9:52:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

Yep, I know lots of Muslims and no, not a single one, as far as I'm aware hold militant ideologies.

About 10% of the Muslims I know do. It is not unreasonable to think FD knows more, and his may be more brazen.




DaddySatyr -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/10/2015 9:58:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

Yep, I know lots of Muslims and no, not a single one, as far as I'm aware hold militant ideologies.



quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

I know a lot more Muslims than you do and none of them share this view. Even if they felt it they would never speak it; certainly not to a none Muslim.




I'm trying to square up these two statements. I know I'm crap at arithmetic but, they're not adding up.



Michael




Musicmystery -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/10/2015 10:02:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

Yep, I know lots of Muslims and no, not a single one, as far as I'm aware hold militant ideologies.

About 10% of the Muslims I know do. It is not unreasonable to think FD knows more, and his may be more brazen.

Since you're both commonly full of crap, I'm going with that as the most likely reality. Ockham's Razor and all that.




BamaD -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/10/2015 10:34:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

Yep, I know lots of Muslims and no, not a single one, as far as I'm aware hold militant ideologies.

How do you know if they would never say such things to a non-Muslim, unless you are a Muslim?




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