RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You?

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RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/10/2015 8:30:29 AM

Musicmystery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LiveSpark

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

And again, no one's saying it's benign.

I'm saying it's not a terrorist strike either.

No Tim YOU are saying it's benign over and over again. Several of us are the ones who are saying it isn't. Make up your mind.

Nope. Learn to read what the words say, not what's in your head to make them say.

Been quite clear about this throughout, even repeatedly pointing out "Again...."

*shrug*

Make your straw boogie man if you want.

It's clear I (1) think it's a crime (2) think it should be a crime (3) think the woman has problems (4) think 15 years should be protected. It's also pretty clear (5) I *do* think it has an effect...though what effect is unknown. And I'll add that (6) it's not healthy.

What I *don't* think is "Any 15 year old boy who gets a blow job willingly from an older woman has his mind and life destroyed automatically, no exceptions, one moment with that cock in her mouth and he's a goner for life."

You arm-chair psychologists want to cling to that nonsense, go for it.

Tell you want---instead of whining, start a fund. Collect the thousands and thousands of dollars he's going to need in lifelong psychological care after this devastating, crushing, life-ruining blow from which he'll never recover. Put your compassion where your egos are. Actually do something useful.

What I *also* think is that the world is full of true tragedies, and this isn't one of them. Send the woman to trial, send the kid to counseling, put your egos back on their hooks ready by the door for the next time you have to grab them and rush out for an "emergency," and go do something purposeful with your day.

Me, I'm going to start on that last part right now.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 1/10/2015 8:35:55 AM >

(in reply to LiveSpark)

Post #: 101

RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/10/2015 8:34:42 AM

ExiledTyrant

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

What I *don't* think is "Any 15 year old boy who gets a blow job willingly from an older woman has his mind and life destroyed automatically, no exceptions, one moment with that cock in her mouth and he's a goner for life."

No one her believes that either, but we acknowledge that it is in the realm of possibility. Just like we do not believe that if you get gang raped by some bikers while you are out doing your productive thing that it will automatically destroy you. We acknowledge the fact that it could, but we also acknowledge the fact that you might like it too.

Jus sayin

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Post #: 102

RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/10/2015 8:37:26 AM

Arturas

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

But, if an adult and teenager washed up on an Island with no rules -- the question of abuse would not be a general rule or parental guidelines or ages -- the question of abuse would be individual to the participants. And, the difference in ages might actually be a plus in the equation.

Fair enough. But, why the distinction between man/girl and the other scenarios in your mind? Why is this line drawn?

Because there is a line in reality.

Men and women are different on many levels and one of those is the man is the natural predator and in this situation the prey fell into his lap, no pun intended. As a man, I know this teen boy was not damaged by this while knowing a teen girl would have been, if the roles reversed. It's just that way, which is why this ex-cheerleader thought she could do this where a male cheerleader whould know he could not with a teen girl. And she, the ex-cheerleader would be right except teen boys brag about their 'conquests'.

Which is why most men do not feel the boy somehow suffered from a wet dream blow job by an ex-cheerleader, jeeze. It's why women who do this and are charged get a much lighter sentence than males who do this, because the difference is recognized.

So most of us don't think men and women are the same even when, no, especially when we discuss their actions and their motifvations, even when they are teenage boys getting a blowjob they later brag about enough to get this ex-cheerleader in trouble.

< Message edited by Arturas -- 1/10/2015 8:39:44 AM >

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Post #: 103

RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/10/2015 8:39:16 AM

Musicmystery

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I don't think you speak for the group, though, ET. People here are saying that they do indeed believe, and without the acknowledgement.

But it's clear a discussion that has reached the pointless stage.

(in reply to ExiledTyrant)

Post #: 104

RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/10/2015 8:39:23 AM

GoddessManko

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Right Exiled, we all develop differently and at a different pace but the odds are slim he even has the ability to draw lines with sexuality now. And puppy farms are no true example, those are learned behavior not actively sought. I am not going to start creating grey areas for those who lack self control.

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Post #: 105

RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/10/2015 8:42:35 AM

Arturas

Posts: 3245
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

But, if an adult and teenager washed up on an Island with no rules -- the question of abuse would not be a general rule or parental guidelines or ages -- the question of abuse would be individual to the participants. And, the difference in ages might actually be a plus in the equation.

Fair enough. But, why the distinction between man/girl and the other scenarios in your mind? Why is this line drawn?

Because there is a line in reality.

Men and women are different on many levels and one of those is the man is the natural predator and in this situation the prey fell into his lap, no pun intended. As a man, I know this teen boy was not damaged by this while knowing a teen girl would have been, if the roles reversed. It's just that way, which is why this ex-cheerleader thought she could do this where a male cheerleader whould know he could not with a teen girl. And she, the ex-cheerleader would be right except teen boys brag about their 'conquests'.

Which is why most men do not feel the boy somehow suffered from a wet dream blow job by an ex-cheerleader, jeeze. It's why women who do this and are charged get a much lighter sentence than males who do this, because the difference is recognized.

So most of us don't think men and women are the same even when, no, especially when we discuss their actions and their motifvations, even when they are teenage boys getting a blowjob they later brag about enough to get this ex-cheerleader in trouble.

Another direction on this perspective... if I had dressed this ex-chearleader up in heels and black tight skirt and put her in a dorm room and passed the word I was charging five bucks a head to any guy who wants her, these teenage boys and likly this guy would be lined up around and down the hall.

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Post #: 106

RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/10/2015 8:46:56 AM

PeonForHer

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quote:

Personally, this woman's life is ruined, and if she is guilty of what she's been charged with, then she did it to herself.

The boy concerned won't believe that, though. He will believe that he ruined her life.

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Post #: 107

RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/10/2015 8:47:08 AM

ExiledTyrant

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I don't think you speak for the group, though, ET. People here are saying that they do indeed believe, and without the acknowledgement.

But it's clear a discussion that has reached the pointless stage.

I speak my mind and if anyone wants to get on that wagon they are free to do so. If you choose to wrap my opinion up as a group opinion that is your prerogative, but it does not and will not change the fact that I say what I have to say, take it or leave it.

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(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 108

RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/10/2015 8:52:49 AM

Musicmystery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I don't think you speak for the group, though, ET. People here are saying that they do indeed believe, and without the acknowledgement.

But it's clear a discussion that has reached the pointless stage.

I speak my mind and if anyone wants to get on that wagon they are free to do so. If you choose to wrap my opinion up as a group opinion that is your prerogative, but it does not and will not change the fact that I say what I have to say, take it or leave it.

Whoa Cowboy. I've no problem with your mind.

You *did* say explicitly "no one here believes....just like we do not believe...we acknowledge the fact..."

That's speaking for the group, not me "choosing to wrap our opinion up as a group opinion."

Just reading what you posted.

If people read what I posted, instead of what they decide to read, this discussion would be five pages shorter.

(in reply to ExiledTyrant)

Post #: 109

RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/10/2015 8:59:24 AM

igor2003

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--FR--

I did read the article linked to by the OP, but I haven't read all the responses in the thread so I could easily have missed something. In some of the responses that I have read I see people talking about how this encounter possibly ruined this young man's life. Could be...I don't know. But many of the responses seem to be going on the assumption that the guy was a virgin at the time of his encounter with the older woman. Was he? I don't know that either. But if he was already sexually active, then I seriously doubt that there would be a huge negative effect on him just because he received a BJ from an older woman.

No, I'm not trying to negate the seriousness of her offense, but it does kind of irk me when people keep going on about his "innocence" when there may not have been any innocence to begin with. And yes, 15 is fairly young...probably too young when looking at it with an adult mindset...but I have one friend that had his first sexual experience when he was only eleven, and that was with a girl that was 15 at the time. I don't think that had much of a negative effect on him. To me, trying to use his "innocence" as an arguing point is baseless unless there is something indicating that he was pure as the driven snow before the encounter. If anyone has anything indicating that he WAS sexually innocent, then that would change my mind considerably. (And like I said, I haven't read all the posts, so if something has already been posted about that point, then...never mind!)

As far as the woman's guilt or innocence, the laws are not gender specific, and IF she is guilty, then the court should be just as harsh with her as it would be for a male offender.

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Post #: 110

RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/10/2015 9:05:48 AM

dcnovice

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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

FR~

I think half the problems with specific age limits is because 'one size fits all' just doesn't fit at all.

I know people (both male and female) at aged 12-13 that know and are emotionally and physically mature enough to deal with these "adult" situations - and many are actively involved in such pursuits.
Equally well, I know many over the age of 20 that are sooo naive that they might just as well be barely 10 years old.

But.... society (and the law) has to draw a line somewhere and for each country, those lines are different.

Well said, FD.

I suspect that's a problem with any line-drawing, tbh.

Some drivers can probably handle a car better at 80 mph than others at 40.

Two drinks can affect two people very differently.

Some 18-year-olds are mature enough to vote or serve in the armed forces. Others, not so much.

But, as you noted, lawmakers have to draw lines someplace.

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Post #: 111

RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/10/2015 9:07:21 AM

ExiledTyrant

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I get that MM. My point is that I am not alone in acknowledging that he may not be damaged, but he could be. Again, if anyone wants to hitch to my wagon, they are free to do so, but I am not known for being delicate or permissive, just as you are not known for being delicate or permissive.

This applies to any argument. I think the death penalty is a great idea, would be a greater idea if it were death week and not death row, but I do have a problem with the innocent being executed (which I am currently penning some legislation to effect that). So while I am very pro "Kill the sack of shit" reasonable doubt exists for me. However, should the legislation I am working become a law we will see "Death Week" and no loss of innocent life in the process.

Putting myself in that boys shoes, hell yes it would've been a righteous experience for ME. As I said before, I had already been there and done that, but I was able to overcome it, but for the longest time I objectified women and girls... successfully, until I learned that sex was so much greater when coupled with substance. Nevertheless, I can understand the possible damage that can be done if this, in fact, did occur.

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To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

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(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 112

RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/10/2015 9:18:06 AM

DaddySatyr

Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003

--FR--

I did read the article linked to by the OP, but I haven't read all the responses in the thread so I could easily have missed something. In some of the responses that I have read I see people talking about how this encounter possibly ruined this young man's life. Could be...I don't know. But many of the responses seem to be going on the assumption that the guy was a virgin at the time of his encounter with the older woman. Was he? I don't know that either. But if he was already sexually active, then I seriously doubt that there would be a huge negative effect on him just because he received a BJ from an older woman.

No, I'm not trying to negate the seriousness of her offense, but it does kind of irk me when people keep going on about his "innocence" when there may not have been any innocence to begin with. And yes, 15 is fairly young...probably too young when looking at it with an adult mindset...but I have one friend that had his first sexual experience when he was only eleven, and that was with a girl that was 15 at the time. I don't think that had much of a negative effect on him. To me, trying to use his "innocence" as an arguing point is baseless unless there is something indicating that he was pure as the driven snow before the encounter. If anyone has anything indicating that he WAS sexually innocent, then that would change my mind considerably. (And like I said, I haven't read all the posts, so if something has already been posted about that point, then...never mind!)

As far as the woman's guilt or innocence, the laws are not gender specific, and IF she is guilty, then the court should be just as harsh with her as it would be for a male offender.

Now, transpose the genders in everything you wrote and see how that squares.

You seem to be saying (in at least one part that really stood out for me) that since this boy may have been sexually active, it shouldn't cause him any issues, as far as you're concerned.

It's an interesting defense but one that holds no water with a lot of people and all the courts, in this country. Could you imagine: "But, your honor, she's been having sex since she's twelve. That's four years! I couldn't have raped her."? That doesn't even pass the giggle test (and, allegedly, girls mature faster than boys).

Michael

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Post #: 113

RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/10/2015 9:28:33 AM

FieryOpal

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

Personally, this woman's life is ruined, and if she is guilty of what she's been charged with, then she did it to herself.

The boy concerned won't believe that, though. He will believe that he ruined her life.

And yet he told or confessed it to his parents.

If he didn't have the maturity to comprehend the ramifications of his actions in getting her arrested, then he definitely didn't have enough maturity to be engaging in sex.

Do we know for a fact that sexual intercourse didn't take place? He may have omitted that part.

Does it become fun & games for a 15-year-old boy when a year down the road he gets hit with paternity papers and has to pay child support for the next 18 years?

Jack Nicholson didn't find out until he was a much older adult that the woman he thought all his life was his older sister was actually his own mother. He has admitted that this threw him into a tailspin. Unspeakable family secrets never bode well.

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Post #: 114

RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/10/2015 9:36:58 AM

LiveSpark

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"Do we know for a fact that sexual intercourse didn't take place? He may have omitted that part."

I was thinking about that this morning. One thing that I know from chatting with fellow survivors is that it's common to tell the part(s) of the abuse - and no I'm not saying this case is definitely abuse - that are easiest to deal with first. Yes that stands regardless of the gender of abuser/victim. Then as time goes on, assuming there is support for the survivor, more comes out. So it is POSSIBLE that he omitted intercourse. It is also possible that intercourse did not occur. Time will tell.

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Post #: 115

RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/10/2015 9:48:39 AM

vincentML

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Assuming some pleasure was derived. When does guilt begin for the child? Is it immediate? A day later? A year later? Does the abused know intuitively he has been abused? Or most he wait for information and validation later in life? Is the feeling of being abused (in a non-violent, seductive, maybe pleasurable experience) implicit/explicit in the experience or is it ladled on later as a social taboo construct? When does a child know he/she has been wronged? Is there a universal reference? Curious.

Why is this even an issue?

B/c it seems that some here are making the assumption that one psychosexual hormonal set and one prefrontal lobe moral maturity fits all and hence all are victims. A huge and erroneous presumption I think.

(in reply to littleladybug)

Post #: 116

RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/10/2015 10:26:24 AM

dcnovice

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quote:

ORIGINAL: outlier

This is not that tricky, no matter what anybody's 15 year old wet dreams would be.
Just rephrase it in a gender neutral way to see it.

If an adult, gives alcohol to a minor then separates the minor from the group,
then has oral sex and attempts intercourse with the minor, that is rape. Since
they provided the alcohol and separated the minor from the group it was premeditated

When one person sexually uses another who is incapable of giving consent, that is rape.
It diminishes the humanity of us all to laugh and giggle about it.

I am not saying it happened in this case but I am saying that gender is not an excuse.
And should not be an issue.

It could be an interesting thought experiment to make the adult a priest and the 15-year-old an acolyte, chorister, student, or rectory receptionist.

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Post #: 117

RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/10/2015 10:29:30 AM

LiveSpark

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Joined: 12/25/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

ORIGINAL: outlier

This is not that tricky, no matter what anybody's 15 year old wet dreams would be.
Just rephrase it in a gender neutral way to see it.

If an adult, gives alcohol to a minor then separates the minor from the group,
then has oral sex and attempts intercourse with the minor, that is rape. Since
they provided the alcohol and separated the minor from the group it was premeditated

When one person sexually uses another who is incapable of giving consent, that is rape.
It diminishes the humanity of us all to laugh and giggle about it.

I am not saying it happened in this case but I am saying that gender is not an excuse.
And should not be an issue.

It could be an interesting thought experiment to make the adult a priest and the 15-year-old an acolyte, chorister, student, or rectory receptionist.

Not hard to predict that if that had been the case condemnation would have been pretty much 100%. Yet for some reason the fact that this is adult female/male minor results in a different response.

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Post #: 118

RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/10/2015 2:37:15 PM

LittleGirlHeart

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Joined: 4/4/2013
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It happens. My mom was sexually abused by an aunt.

Maybe he didn't like what happened to him. Not all guys would react all like sweet! That was awesome.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

What happened is the boy told his parents, and that led to a shit storm and charges for the woman.

Somewhat like MM, I see this through sexist eyes and not a technical, legal prizm. I don't really think a woman abuses a boy with kisses, blow jobs, and invitations for intercourse. But, I do think a man abuses a girl when the roles are reversed, and I think man abuses a boy. (Don't ask me if a Woman could abuse a girl, that makes my head hurt, but I've never read/heard of such a thing.)

Like MM, I'm trying to see the hardship and damages here. Legalities aside -- how has he been abused?

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Post #: 119

RE: Woman Sexually Abuses Teenage Boy -- What Say You? - 1/10/2015 7:47:13 PM

cloudboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

Because there is a line in reality.

Men and women are different on many levels and one of those is the man is the natural predator and in this situation the prey fell into his lap, no pun intended. As a man, I know this teen boy was not damaged by this while knowing a teen girl would have been, if the roles reversed. It's just that way, which is why this ex-cheerleader thought she could do this where a male cheerleader whould know he could not with a teen girl. And she, the ex-cheerleader would be right except teen boys brag about their 'conquests'.

Which is why most men do not feel the boy somehow suffered from a wet dream blow job by an ex-cheerleader, jeeze. It's why women who do this and are charged get a much lighter sentence than males who do this, because the difference is recognized.

So most of us don't think men and women are the same even when, no, especially when we discuss their actions and their motifvations, even when they are teenage boys getting a blowjob they later brag about enough to get this ex-cheerleader in trouble.

Must say I mostly agree with you here. I think things are much different for the penetrator (the man) and the penetrated (the woman.) It is hard to see a man as violated by getting a blow job, whereas an adult male inserting himself into a teenage girl is another matter entirely. This is somewhat as you describe it, the difference between the hunter and the hunted.

The boy also cannot get pregnant.

I also liked Igor's point about the boy's "innocence." I went to prep school, and many of the "innocent boys" there were sexually active from age 13 on up -- and for them this would not have been a "traumatic" experience at all. These guys, though, would have stayed with the woman to have intercourse and would have not told their parents.

The one driving force behind the condemnation of this behavior (older woman with underage boy) is the natural parental concern that this should not happen. I get that.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 1/10/2015 8:05:34 PM >

(in reply to Arturas)

Post #: 120

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