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Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy - 1/15/2015 8:00:43 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		According to Mustafa Akyoi, a Turkish Journalist,, "Blasphemy" is not a punishable offense as described by the Quran. I must say, it helps me to have someone versed in ISLAM who knows its history and texts -- put the actions of militants in perspective.

>The only source in Islamic law that all Muslims accept indisputably is the Quran. And, conspicuously, the Quran decrees no earthly punishment for blasphemy — or for apostasy (abandonment or renunciation of the faith), a related concept. Nor, for that matter, does the Quran command stoning, female circumcision or a ban on fine arts. All these doctrinal innovations, as it were, were brought into the literature of Islam as medieval scholars interpreted it, according to the norms of their time and milieu.

....Before all that politically motivated expansion and toughening of Shariah, though, the Quran told early Muslims, who routinely faced the mockery of their faith by pagans: “God has told you in the Book that when you hear God’s revelations disbelieved in and mocked at, do not sit with them until they enter into some other discourse; surely then you would be like them.”

Just “do not sit with them” — that is the response the Quran suggests for mockery. Not violence. Not even censorship.<

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 1/15/2015 8:03:50 AM >
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RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy - 1/15/2015 8:16:37 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Your Turkish "journalist" knows nothing about Islam

quote:



Those who annoy Allah and His Messenger - Allah has cursed them in this World and in the Hereafter, and has prepared for them a humiliating Punishment. Truly, if the Hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and those who stir up sedition in the City, desist not, We shall certainly stir thee up against them: Then will they not be able to stay in it as thy neighbours for any length of time: They shall have a curse on them: whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain (without mercy).

— Quran 33:57–61


ETA, I see the problem

You trusted a New York Times contributor for your information...







< Message edited by Sanity -- 1/15/2015 8:26:25 AM >

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RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy - 1/15/2015 8:36:22 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		First of all, let's be clear up front. You know absolutely nothing about Islam. You haven't practiced it. You have not read the Quran. In all likelihood, you don't even know any Muslims. I know a few Muslims, but we're not far apart in our ignorance here.

I looked up Quran 33:57–61, and it is NOT AS YOU QUOTED IT. Did you selectively pull the quote yourself by looking at the Quran, or did you use some kind of politicized, secondary source? If you did the latter or the former, you are making the author's point.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 1/15/2015 8:40:25 AM >

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RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy - 1/15/2015 8:44:46 AM   
Bhruic


Posts: 985
Joined: 4/11/2012
From: Toronto, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

First of all, let's be clear up front. You know absolutely nothing about Islam. You haven't practiced it. You have not read the Quran. In all likelihood, you don't even know any Muslims. I know a few Muslims, but we're not far apart in our ignorance here.

I looked up Quran 33:57–61, and it is NOT AS YOU QUOTED IT. Did you selectively pull the quote yourself by looking at the Quran, or did you use some kind of politicized, secondary source? If you did the latter or the former, you are making the author's point.


Curiously, why did you not post the correct quote?

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RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy - 1/15/2015 8:45:27 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

First of all, let's be clear up front. You know absolutely nothing about Islam. You haven't practiced it. You have not read the Quran. In all likelihood, you don't even know any Muslims. I know a few Muslims, but we're not far apart in our ignorance here.

I looked up Quran 33:57–61, and it is NOT AS YOU QUOTED IT. Did you selectively pull the quote yourself by looking at the Quran, or did you use some kind of politicized, secondary source? If you did the latter or the former, you are making the author's point.


That you now feel you have to derail your own thread and make it about me proves that you are but a poor stupid lowly brainless little troll who is incapable of arguing the facts

And I am so sorry but that is the actual quote, anyone can Google the verse. Differing translations may very slightly alter the exact wording but that is the quote


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RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy - 1/15/2015 8:57:49 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		I'm curious Sanity ?
How does someone directly responding to your post,and out and out refuting it,make it a) a derailment and b) about you ?

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RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy - 1/15/2015 9:00:23 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Anyone feel like pulling up Leviticus 24:16 ?
See what the Bible decrees in the event of blasphemy ?

< Message edited by slvemike4u -- 1/15/2015 9:50:17 AM >

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy - 1/15/2015 9:07:24 AM   
cloudboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

First of all, let's be clear up front. You know absolutely nothing about Islam. You haven't practiced it. You have not read the Quran. In all likelihood, you don't even know any Muslims. I know a few Muslims, but we're not far apart in our ignorance here.

I looked up Quran 33:57–61, and it is NOT AS YOU QUOTED IT. Did you selectively pull the quote yourself by looking at the Quran, or did you use some kind of politicized, secondary source? If you did the latter or the former, you are making the author's point.


Curiously, why did you not post the correct quote?


Quran 33:57–61 -- you can just google it to see how Sanity distorted it.

I'm ignorant about Islam -- so I found the points in the OP about Blasphemy interesting. Much like any "book of truth" the interpretation of the Quran gets politicized.

For instance I never realized that Sharia Law is not actually in the Quran --- others thought it up centuries later.


< Message edited by cloudboy -- 1/15/2015 9:09:49 AM >

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RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy - 1/15/2015 9:11:37 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Anyone fell like pulling up Leviticus 24:16 ?
See what the Bible decrees in the event of blasphemy ?


Good point. At least you did not distort the text.

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RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy - 1/15/2015 9:25:27 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		I just googled it:
33:57 Lo! those who malign Allah and His messenger, Allah hath cursed them in the world and the Hereafter, and hath prepared for them the doom of the disdained.   Those who malign Allah, Muhammad, and Muslims will be cursed by Allah in this life and with the doom of the disdained in the Hereafter.
Doom in the Quran
For disbelievers a painful doom
33:58 And those who malign believing men and believing women undeservedly, they bear the guilt of slander and manifest sin.
33:59 O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.  Women must cover themselves when in public.
33:60 If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbours in it but a little while.    Those who oppose Islam will be slain with a fierce slaughter.
33:61 Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter.
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/Quran/33/index.htm

And:

33:57
to top

Sahih International
Indeed, those who abuse Allah and His Messenger - Allah has cursed them in this world and the Hereafter and prepared for them a humiliating punishment.
33:58
to top

Sahih International
And those who harm believing men and believing women for [something] other than what they have earned have certainly born upon themselves a slander and manifest sin.
33:59
to top

Sahih International
O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.
33:60
to top

Sahih International
If the hypocrites and those in whose hearts is disease and those who spread rumors in al-Madinah do not cease, We will surely incite you against them; then they will not remain your neighbors therein except for a little.
33:61
to top

Sahih International
Accursed wherever they are found, [being] seized and massacred completely
http://quran.com/33/57-61

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RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy - 1/15/2015 9:30:57 AM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Anyone fell like pulling up Leviticus 24:16 ?
See what the Bible decrees in the event of blasphemy ?


Now another troll thinks that the thread needs an emergency derail onto Judaism





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RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy - 1/15/2015 9:51:27 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
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Status: offline 		Nope, its on track, both Islam and Judaism share the old testament, and all its ideology.

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RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy - 1/15/2015 9:53:03 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		It's the Bible you putz....used by another faith other than Judaism.The whole Old and new testament thing.
You did know that ,right ?


psst.....This post is actually about you,well actually more about your stupidity than anything else.

< Message edited by slvemike4u -- 1/15/2015 9:54:39 AM >

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Sanity)
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RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy - 1/15/2015 9:58:34 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

First of all, let's be clear up front. You know absolutely nothing about Islam. You haven't practiced it. You have not read the Quran. In all likelihood, you don't even know any Muslims. I know a few Muslims, but we're not far apart in our ignorance here.

I looked up Quran 33:57–61, and it is NOT AS YOU QUOTED IT. Did you selectively pull the quote yourself by looking at the Quran, or did you use some kind of politicized, secondary source? If you did the latter or the former, you are making the author's point.


That you now feel you have to derail your own thread and make it about me proves that you are but a poor stupid lowly brainless little troll who is incapable of arguing the facts

And I am so sorry but that is the actual quote, anyone can Google the verse. Differing translations may very slightly alter the exact wording but that is the quote


1) He's right...you know nothing about the Koran.
2) You are the only person I've ever seen intent on continually trolling about trolls--the world's only Meta-Troll!
3) Any moron can post whatever on a webpage--and does.

Now, the Koran *does* say not to follow mockers:

"O you who believe! do not take for guardians those who take your religion for a mockery and a joke, from among those who were given the Book before you and the unbelievers; and be careful of (your duty to) Allah if you are believers." ( سورة المائدة , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #57)

And that it comes of simple ignorance:

"And when you call to prayer they make it a mockery and a joke; this is because they are a people who do not understand." ( سورة المائدة , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #58)

That you give those people a heads up:

"And We do not send apostles but as givers of good news and warning, and those who disbelieve make a false contention that they may render null thereby the truth, and they take My communications and that with which they are warned for a mockery." ( سورة الكهف , Al-Kahf, Chapter #18, Verse #56)

And from there it's in Allah's hands--and for now, he simply lets them be:

"Allah shall pay them back their mockery, and He leaves them alone in their inordinacy, blindly wandering on.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #15)

In the hopes they eventually get it:

"Thus it is that their recompense is hell, because they disbelieved and held My communications and My apostles in mockery." ( سورة الكهف , Al-Kahf, Chapter #18, Verse #106)


The Koran also warns that believers should take care not to let the mockery rub off on them:

"But you took them for a mockery until they made you forget My remembrance and you used to laugh at them."
( سورة المؤمنون , Al-Mumenoon, Chapter #23, Verse #110)

That those believers should be careful not to let careless discussion lead away from Allah:

"And of men is he who takes instead frivolous discourse to lead astray from Allah's path without knowledge, and to take it for a mockery; these shall have an abasing chastisement."
( سورة لقمان , Luqman, Chapter #31, Verse #6)

Because otherwise you'd be a piss-poor representative of Islam, and people would rightly mock you:

"And when they see you, they do not take you for aught but a mockery: Is this he whom Allah has raised to be an apostle?" ( سورة الفرقان , Al-Furqan, Chapter #25, Verse #41)


And that's it. Mockery occurs only one other time in the Koran, but that's in regard to divorce and faith in Allah.


In short -- if non-believers want to mock Mohammad, so be it. They don't understand, and Allah says to leave them be for now, beyond sharing the word of Allah.





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RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy - 1/15/2015 10:10:02 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		All too true cloudboy but the traditions of Islam are the problem... many of the jihadist go by what Mohammed was supposed to of said to his followers the Hadith... I believe... It does mention images of people.

Butch

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RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy - 1/15/2015 10:11:32 AM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

First of all, let's be clear up front. You know absolutely nothing about Islam. You haven't practiced it. You have not read the Quran. In all likelihood, you don't even know any Muslims. I know a few Muslims, but we're not far apart in our ignorance here.

I looked up Quran 33:57–61, and it is NOT AS YOU QUOTED IT. Did you selectively pull the quote yourself by looking at the Quran, or did you use some kind of politicized, secondary source? If you did the latter or the former, you are making the author's point.


Of course he used a secondary source, he posted the quote in English. Translation violates the divine nature of the Koran.

But just to be helpful here is another verse from the Koran that is used to justify death for blasphemy and apostasy:

إِنَّمَا جَزَاءُ الَّذِينَ يُحَارِبُونَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ وَيَسْعَوْنَ فِي الأَرْضِ فَسَادًا أَنْ يُقَتَّلُوا أَوْ يُصَلَّبُوا أَوْ تُقَطَّعَ أَيْدِيهِمْ وَأَرْجُلُهُمْ مِنْ خِلافٍ أَوْ يُنْفَوْا مِنَ الأَرْضِ ذَلِكَ لَهُمْ خِزْيٌ فِي الدُّنْيَا وَلَهُمْ فِي الآخِرَةِ عَذَابٌ عَظِيمٌ

"The recompense of those who fight Allah and His messenger, and seek to make corruption in the land, is that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from alternate sides or that they be banished from the land; that is their disgrace in this world and in the Hereafter they will have a great torment." (Qur'an 5:33)

Of course this does not even get into the Hadiths.

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Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy - 1/15/2015 10:18:07 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
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Status: offline 		Good war advice. Or what to do when assaulted--which doesn't essentially differ from your own view to shoot blindly and sort it out later.

Anything on the topic?

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RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy - 1/15/2015 10:19:47 AM   
Musicmystery


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Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

All too true cloudboy but the traditions of Islam are the problem... many of the jihadist go by what Mohammed was supposed to of said to his followers the Hadith... I believe... It does mention images of people.

Butch

The reason for not having images isn't blasphemy--it's that aggrandizing men, even Moses or Mohammed, is a distraction from the worship of Allah.

That's it. No more complicated than that.

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RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy - 1/15/2015 10:21:54 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		That is it... no idolatry.

Butch

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy - 1/15/2015 10:40:37 AM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Good war advice. Or what to do when assaulted--which doesn't essentially differ from your own view to shoot blindly and sort it out later.

Anything on the topic?


I do not think that I have ever advocated "spray and pray," which IS the Islamic culture's method of firearm use. Inshallah is not my method of accomplishing things either. Which is another issue with Islamic culture and their soldiers (which is actually the reason behind "spray and pray"."

I have even commented about Boko Haram possibly trying to bring back Janissaries.

I have used that verse to advocate for bringing back crucifixion for jihadiscum/terrorists/RIFs/whatever you want to call them.

I have also stated that I believe that a large amount of jihadiscum/terrorists/RIFs/whatever will need to be killed before change is effected.

Shooting blindly? Not so much.

On topic? Islam's problem with blasphemy is the death written into its own scripture that ya'll want to ignore.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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