RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (Full Version)

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thishereboi -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/27/2015 7:32:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

. I just do not think you are an anti-Semitic like tweak

Tweak is not anti-Semitic. I hope you did not mean that.


Vincent, thank you for pointing out the truth to kd.* This is not the first time he has tried to smear me with the anti-Semitic label. Previously he has been asked to back up his abuse with evidence from my posts. Unsurprisingly he has been unable to do so. He has admitted that he has no evidence to support his charge. But he persists in his baseless abuse.

As an ex-teacher you will recognise in kd's confused ramblings on this subject the obstinacy of a child who acknowledges all the evidence but for reasons best known to himself refuses to draw the obvious conclusions. I admire your patience in trying to deal with it and coax him towards the unavoidable conclusions - that the side he has been so sympathetic to for so long is in fact the party most responsible for the failure to resolve the conflict, that its behaviour is indefensible, that Israeli is the aggressor not the victim, that he has had the wool pulled over his eyes for years, that he has swallowed their propaganda as truth .

For obvious reasons I can't be bothered.

* Thanks to politesub too for the same



wow, someone suggested that about you. I don't understand. If I were you I would pull up all the posts you have made calling Palestine on their bullshit to prove you see the problems on both sides. That way he will know for sure that you are not just taking one side in this.




freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/27/2015 8:17:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
...If I were you I would pull up all the posts you have made calling Palestine on their bullshit to prove you see the problems on both sides. That way he will know for sure that you are not just taking one side in this.

No different to most Americans siding with Israel and the IDF.

The problem is thb, most of us outside of the US don't see it as equal.
We tend to get a lesser media bias and we see that Israel is most certainly the aggressor in this debacle.
But because the US is supporting Israel, most US media spins a positive bias on Israel.
I've seen a lot of US reporters completely ignoring the blockade by Israel and blaming things on other events.
World media, on the other hand, recognise that the blockade, and the continued illegal building on occupied territories, as being the cause of a lot that inflames Hamas.

I'm not saying Hamas and the Palestinians are innocent; far from it.
But we see the Israeli's and the IDF in a much blacker, sinister light than the US media reports.
Hence, we tend to call out the Israeli's a lot more than the Palestinians.
And if the death quota is anything to measure by, Israel is 67:1 more at fault.




thishereboi -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/27/2015 8:39:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
...If I were you I would pull up all the posts you have made calling Palestine on their bullshit to prove you see the problems on both sides. That way he will know for sure that you are not just taking one side in this.

No different to most Americans siding with Israel and the IDF.

The problem is thb, most of us outside of the US don't see it as equal.
We tend to get a lesser media bias and we see that Israel is most certainly the aggressor in this debacle.
But because the US is supporting Israel, most US media spins a positive bias on Israel.
I've seen a lot of US reporters completely ignoring the blockade by Israel and blaming things on other events.
World media, on the other hand, recognise that the blockade, and the continued illegal building on occupied territories, as being the cause of a lot that inflames Hamas.

I'm not saying Hamas and the Palestinians are innocent; far from it.
But we see the Israeli's and the IDF in a much blacker, sinister light than the US media reports.
Hence, we tend to call out the Israeli's a lot more than the Palestinians.
And if the death quota is anything to measure by, Israel is 67:1 more at fault.



I wasn't addressing the media, I was offering a suggestion to tweeky on what she could do to show she isn't biased. Now I am sure with all the posts she has made on the subject it wouldn't be that hard to find one that shows she acknowledges there are problems with both sides. Saying you call out the Israeli's a lot more than the Palestinians implies that you do call out both sides. So it shouldn't be hard at all.




vincentML -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/27/2015 10:08:51 AM)

quote:

I wasn't addressing the media, I was offering a suggestion to tweeky on what she could do to show she isn't biased. Now I am sure with all the posts she has made on the subject it wouldn't be that hard to find one that shows she acknowledges there are problems with both sides. Saying you call out the Israeli's a lot more than the Palestinians implies that you do call out both sides. So it shouldn't be hard at all.

Any fool should know there is a big difference between being anti-Semitic (an emotional and irrational prejudice) versus having a bias toward a perceived set of facts. A call for equality of guilt between these two antagonists as Butch does is either one of the following: 1. ignorance of the conditions on the ground today in 'greater Israel', 2. unwillingness to recognize or admit your position is wrong, 3. knowing your position is wrong but hiding behind the straw man of equal guilt.

It is shear rhetorical cowardice to 1. attack your opponents integrity in a debate, as you continue to do, and 2. to avoid the evidence presented to you because it contradicts your position.

The greater evil in debate is to attack the integrity of your opponent, which you continue to do and which I find quite despicable.

However, I'm glad you are hear and reading the evidence we present. Hopefully, it will help you overcome the propaganda you have consumed for so long.

Here are some IDF members who refused to accept Israel's abuse of the Palestinians. You wouldn't call these Israelis anti-Semitic because of their protests, would you?

IDF dismisses reservists who objected to ‘abuses’

In protesting ‘political persecution’ of Palestinians, 43 elite cyber defense soldiers violated ‘morals of IDF,’ army says


Can't imagine what the 'morals' of the IDF are. They certainly do not include the courage to speak out against unwarranted persecution of the 'enemy.'

The Israel Defense Forces has dismissed 43 reserve soldiers from its most prestigious intelligence unit after they publicly denounced alleged abuses against Palestinians.

In a letter published by Israeli media in September, the 43 reservists, who belonged to the 8200 spying unit, said they refused to serve in order to avoid participating in injustices carried out against the Palestinians.

The public missive came out shortly after last summer’s war in the Gaza Strip, which claimed the lives of over 2,000 Palestinians, according to the Hamas government, and 72 Israelis.


These Israel kids put their lives and careers on the line to speak up against the Zionist outrage. Must be something going on there that isn't getting through to consumers of the American mass media.




vincentML -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/27/2015 10:28:21 AM)

quote:

Vincent, your pro ISIS website is nonsense. Pro death to all unbelievers, especially shia. It is frankly laughable.

pro ISIS website????

[sm=rofl.gif]

Pathetic. Is there no slander you are willing to use in your desperate efforts to ignore the facts?




vincentML -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/27/2015 11:07:43 AM)

quote:

Vincent why do you pick a moment in history to justify ownership of the land by the Palestinians yet then deny the Jews the same opportunity? The Jews could pick a time long before Palestine to claim ownership of the land. Can you not see where history a hundred years ago means nothing… history a thousand years ago means nothing… the history of yesterday means nothing… Only the future means anything. Using history to justify anything is a failed strategy.

Butch, there are direct, living family links between todays Palestinians and the people who were on the farms and in the city apartments in 1948. There is an on going expropriation of Palestinian land today. The Palestinians have Deeds to their land and apartments as visible evidence of ownership. They do not rely on a two thousand year old scroll of myths and lies. Nor can the Jews who migrated to Palestine from Europe and the Soviets show any evidence of family ties to the ancient Hebrews except by some DNA linkages. And if you go that route you will find the genes of Italian Jewish women in a dominant role. History matters when the people who have been disposed are still here and can prove their ownership. That is not history. That is the present time.
quote:

Vincent this tragedy can only end two ways. A military conquest resulting in a genocide of one group of people… or …a negotiated peace with compromises on both sides.


The military conquest has occurred.

The Genocide continues but you are blind to it.

The negotiations have been a shield (a cover) used by the Israelis to built more settlements and expand to a "Greater Israel" in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. Israel will not be satisfied until it has conquered all of Judea-Samaria. Already, they have built settlements on Palestinian land and given those new towns the right by law to exclude Palestinians; they have encircled Palestinian villages with Israeli-only roadways and checkpoints; they recruit non-Palestinian Arabs to serve on the Border Police to man the endless check points which harass Palestinian commerce; and they are building a 25 ft separation wall right through Palestinian villages in the West Bank. Oh yeah, they 'mow the lawn' in Camp Gaza periodically with F-16 fighter jets. Shooting rabbits in a pen.

How shameful is it? The children of the Holocaust survivors engaging in genocide of another people? I can imagine the Prophets rolling over in their graves and crying as they did in the distant past: "Oh, sinful Israel!"

Talk to me when you have something more to present than your ill founded, baseless hypothetical speculations, Butch.




vincentML -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/27/2015 11:26:58 AM)

quote:

wow, someone suggested that about you. I don't understand. If I were you I would pull up all the posts you have made calling Palestine on their bullshit to prove you see the problems on both sides. That way he will know for sure that you are not just taking one side in this.

What idiocy. This is not Fox News "fair and balanced." This is Truth or Consequences. The truth is that Israel is guilty of Ethnic Cleansing these past 60 years. Please try to stay on topic. None of us are obliged to defend ourselves against the slanders and slurs expressed above. And try as you might the thread will not be diverted.




Politesub53 -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/27/2015 11:28:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

. I just do not think you are an anti-Semitic like tweak

Tweak is not anti-Semitic. I hope you did not mean that.


Vincent, thank you for pointing out the truth to kd.* This is not the first time he has tried to smear me with the anti-Semitic label. Previously he has been asked to back up his abuse with evidence from my posts. Unsurprisingly he has been unable to do so. He has admitted that he has no evidence to support his charge. But he persists in his baseless abuse.

As an ex-teacher you will recognise in kd's confused ramblings on this subject the obstinacy of a child who acknowledges all the evidence but for reasons best known to himself refuses to draw the obvious conclusions. I admire your patience in trying to deal with it and coax him towards the unavoidable conclusions - that the side he has been so sympathetic to for so long is in fact the party most responsible for the failure to resolve the conflict, that its behaviour is indefensible, that Israeli is the aggressor not the victim, that he has had the wool pulled over his eyes for years, that he has swallowed their propaganda as truth .

For obvious reasons I can't be bothered.

* Thanks to politesub too for the same



wow, someone suggested that about you. I don't understand. If I were you I would pull up all the posts you have made calling Palestine on their bullshit to prove you see the problems on both sides. That way he will know for sure that you are not just taking one side in this.


TBH....... You are another fuckwit who plays hard and lose with this issue. Tweaks has never said anything anti-semetic, but you and others continue to insist otherwise, without being able to quote one anti semitic word. The funny thing is all of you morons were spouting on about free speech last week, yet making false accusations against a poster who has used facts you find hard to deal with, in order to shut her up.






tweakabelle -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/27/2015 11:45:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
I don't understand.


How very true. Probably the truest most accurate statement I have seen you post.

For a change, why not try listening and learning instead of parroting right wing cliches and Zionist BS. It can only help.




Moderator3 -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/28/2015 2:31:46 AM)

FR

Please leave the nickname of the member you are quoting, in the quote. Without it, it causes staff to have to search for it and wastes a great deal of time. That is why it is a part of the guidelines in this section.

Thank you




thishereboi -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/28/2015 5:49:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

TBH....... You are another fuckwit who plays hard and lose with this issue. Tweaks has never said anything anti-semetic, but you and others continue to insist otherwise, without being able to quote one anti semitic word. The funny thing is all of you morons were spouting on about free speech last week, yet making false accusations against a poster who has used facts you find hard to deal with, in order to shut her up.





No you fuckwit, I wasn't making an accusation, I was giving a suggestion on how to stop people from claiming that she was. And I don't recall spouting off about free speach last week. Perhaps you could link the post to refresh my memory.




kdsub -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/28/2015 8:21:30 AM)

Damn thishereboi... you right wing Zionist Bull Shitter.... no anti-Semitic here!!!!!!

Butch




PeonForHer -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/28/2015 10:08:42 AM)

quote:

Hence, we tend to call out the Israeli's a lot more than the Palestinians.


Also to be considered is the small but not insignificant point that the side with the greater power overall - in this case clearly Israel - tends also to have the greater power to end the conflict.




vincentML -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/28/2015 11:51:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Damn thishereboi... you right wing Zionist Bull Shitter.... no anti-Semitic here!!!!!!

Butch

kd's sneaky, underhanded way of trying to keep the lie alive, having nothing significant to contribute to the topic of the thread other than some misguided blather about equal culpability between the Zionists colonizers and their victims.

You play nice guy on the one hand, Butch, pretending an interest in the issues at hand but then repeat your slander even if in a back handed fashion. I ask you again to stop suggesting that anyone here whose opinion stymies you is anti-Semitic.

The "new anti-Semitism" is the strategy of slandering anyone who criticizes abuses perpetrated by the Zionist militarists.




kdsub -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/28/2015 12:13:22 PM)

No lie Vincent... just an opinion...you have one I have one... her words stand on their own for anyone to decide. So do yours and mine.

Butch




Politesub53 -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/28/2015 4:40:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

TBH....... You are another fuckwit who plays hard and lose with this issue. Tweaks has never said anything anti-semetic, but you and others continue to insist otherwise, without being able to quote one anti semitic word. The funny thing is all of you morons were spouting on about free speech last week, yet making false accusations against a poster who has used facts you find hard to deal with, in order to shut her up.





No you fuckwit, I wasn't making an accusation, I was giving a suggestion on how to stop people from claiming that she was. And I don't recall spouting off about free speach last week. Perhaps you could link the post to refresh my memory.



You were trolling, plain and simple and to suggest otherwise is ignorance.




tweakabelle -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/29/2015 1:43:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Damn thishereboi... you right wing Zionist Bull Shitter.... no anti-Semitic here!!!!!!

Butch

kd's sneaky, underhanded way of trying to keep the lie alive, having nothing significant to contribute to the topic of the thread other than some misguided blather about equal culpability between the Zionists colonizers and their victims.


The delusion of equal culpability is difficult to maintain if one simply studies the realities of life in Occupied Palestine. Leaving aside the serious clashes on the northern border yesterday, here are some of the incidents in the West Bank that were not reported in the Western media:
* Israeli forces on Sunday detained a 10 year old Palestinian boy and his uncle in the al-Tur neighborhood of East Jerusalem, leading to clashes in the area;
* A Palestinian youth was shot and injured Saturday by live Israeli settler fire to the south of Bethlehem, while other settlers attacked passing Palestinian vehicles with rocks, to the west, according to local and security sources;
* Israeli forces shot with a rubber-coated [steel] bullet a young Palestinian man while he was walking out of his house in the East Jerusalem neighborhood of al-Tur on Saturday evening;
* Medical sources in Hebron, in the southern part of the West Bank, have reported that Israeli [settler/colonist] fanatics attacked, beat and stabbed a Palestinian man, from Doura nearby town;
* A Druze IDF soldier who was beaten by Jews in Jerusalem called on Israelis to forward a Facebook post on Sunday preaching a message of peace and tolerance, mere days after his attack;
* Local sources in Hebron, in the southern part of the occupied West Bank, have reported that Israeli soldiers invaded the city and Beit Ummar nearby town, and kidnapped five Palestinians; Many Palestinians injured. Soldiers also invaded Bethlehem and detained Palestinians near Jenin;
* The Housing and Construction Ministry allocated 850,000 shekels ($215,000) for the expansion of the settlement of Efrat in the West Bank last October, despite Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu having reversed the decision to build on the site;
* The Israeli occupation authorities (IOA) pushed a Palestinian citizen to knock down a farm of his own in the southern West Bank city of al-Khalil [Hebron];
* A group of Israeli settlers on Sunday chopped down dozens of olive trees belonging to an elderly Palestinian man in the village of Sisiya [Susiya?] south of Hebron;
All these incidents, and links to full accounts of the incidents can be viewed at this source

I stress that these incidents are just some, far from all, that occurred. This is a snapshot of Israeli ethnic cleansing at the coalface, as it were, with both settlers/colonists and the IDF participating in actions designed to force Palestinians off their land or out of their houses driving them out of their ancestral homelands. It was in many respects this is just a typical day, meaning that incidents such as the above occur on a daily basis in the West Bank, day in day out day after day week after week month after month year after year.

It is churlish to claim that both sides are equally culpable when it comes to apartheid and ethnic cleansing. Clearly one side - the side enforcing ethnic cleansing and apartheid - has far more responsibility for the violence, for the dead and injured, for the homeless and homes destroyed. This claim is a claim of last resort by Zionist sympathisers, unable to dispute the mountains of evidence detailing Israeli ethnic cleansing and apartheid and being too dishonest to acknowledge their overwhelming culpability, try to somehow retrieve some PR gain from the situation by blame-shifting.

Only one side is engaged in ethnic cleansing and apartheid. Only one side has carried out ethnic cleansing since the mid-1940s and has carried it out non-stop ever since. Zionists must carry the overwhelming culpability for the current situation. There is nothing preventing a full Israeli withdrawal to Israel's internationally recognised borders except Zionist belligerence, land lust and intransigence.




thishereboi -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/29/2015 6:22:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

TBH....... You are another fuckwit who plays hard and lose with this issue. Tweaks has never said anything anti-semetic, but you and others continue to insist otherwise, without being able to quote one anti semitic word. The funny thing is all of you morons were spouting on about free speech last week, yet making false accusations against a poster who has used facts you find hard to deal with, in order to shut her up.





No you fuckwit, I wasn't making an accusation, I was giving a suggestion on how to stop people from claiming that she was. And I don't recall spouting off about free speach last week. Perhaps you could link the post to refresh my memory.



You were trolling, plain and simple and to suggest otherwise is ignorance.



So no link then. Yea still not surprised.




Lucylastic -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/29/2015 7:30:53 AM)

Irony considering the numbers of times you have run away without giving links to people
the latest example was that Federal diabetic plan in the US that doesnt exist for all obese or diabetically troubled people.
How many links have you EVER given to shore up your personal claims.
search only shows one, but I know its wrong, but it sure isnt more than ten.




thishereboi -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/29/2015 7:32:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Irony considering the numbers of times you have run away without giving links to people
the latest example was that Federal diabetic plan in the US that doesnt exist for all obese or diabetically troubled people.
How many links have you EVER given to shore up your personal claims.
search only shows one, but I know its wrong, but it sure isnt more than ten.




You are going to have to link the "federal diabetic plan" because I have no fucking idea what you are on about this time.




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