RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (Full Version)

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vincentML -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/25/2015 1:14:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Rabid leftist / Islamist propagandists such as "polite" sub, tweaka, and vincent are incapable of understanding how their stupidity and their lies do their cause much more harm to good

They seem to think that everyone else hates Jews just as much as they do, therefore everyone else will just gloss over their vile demagoguery and accept it as fact



Sanity's ignorance: doesn't agree with our position so claims we hate Jews. My 18 year loving marriage to a Jewish woman calls him out for the fool he is. Go fuck yourself, asshole.



vincentML -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/25/2015 1:28:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


No, we don't hate the little Islamists.
What we object to, is Palestine practicing virtual genocide with the Jewish people.

Neither side have clean hands - that's obvious.
But (Palestinians), consistently defy UN regulations in their pursuit of ethnic cleansing.

See how it works, both ways?

Sorry. I'm on the side of Netanyahu: "If Palestine disarmed, today, we'd have no more violence. If Israel disarmed, today, we'd have no more Israel."



Michael




Here's how it works in the real world, Michael:

Occupier’s Justice: Heads and Tails you Lose

By Jonathan Cook

January 25, 2015 "ICH" - Yesterday I had an idea for a short story to explain the unrelenting insanity of the occupation for ordinary Palestinians. Tell me what you think.

In my story, there is a Palestinian family, let’s call them the Jaabaris, and they live next to a Jewish settlement, let’s call it Kiryat Arba, close to Hebron deep in the Israeli-occupied West Bank.

One day the settlers decide to build a synagogue on the family’s private land in an effort to force them off.

This family decide to stand their ground. Sadly, they have no way to stop the takeover of land that has been in their family for generations other than by appealing to the Israeli legal system. They petition the Israeli Supreme Court to order the synagogue demolished.

In the court room, the settlers argue that the land is not under Kiryat Arba’s control – it’s private Palestinian property – and therefore it is outside the court’s jurisdiction. The judges have no right to issue a ruling in this case, they claim.

The court disagrees and says the land is under Kiryat Arba’s control – ie the judges treat it as part of Israel – and therefore the court can issue a ruling. The judges’ verdict is a triumph for justice: the synagogue should be demolished.

However, now that the settlers have a piece of paper with the court’s decision stating that the land belongs to Kiryat Arba, they can bill the Palestinian family for years of arrears on property taxes amounting to $22,000 – more than the family earns in several years. If they don’t pay, the settlers will seize the land and sell it.

Heads the Jaabaris lose; tails they lose too. That’s Israeli occupiers’ justice.

What do you think? Have I gone a bit too far? Too crazy to be credible.

Or have I simply plagiarised this story from the Times of Israel, where exactly this just happened to the Jaabari family.
www.timesofisrael.com/settlers-build-synagogue-on-palestinian-land-bill-owner/

Jonathan Cook is a Nazareth- based journalist and winner of the Martha Gellhorn Special Prize for Journalism - http://www.jonathan-cook.net/





bounty44 -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/25/2015 1:42:49 PM)

I notice you actually didn't really address what daddysatyr said...



vincentML -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/25/2015 1:48:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

I notice you actually didn't really address what daddysatyr said...

Too subtle for you?

To be more candid, Michael's point of view is overly simplistic. That is the point of my relating this more complicated tale.



vincentML -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/25/2015 3:17:08 PM)

Some of us on this thread have been accused of demagogic rhetoric which is sadly amusing when you look up the meaning of the word and find that we are supposedly making passionate, patriotic, populist appeals. Speaking for myself, and hopefully for the others, what we are doing here is trying to bring you the Palestinian side of the story by citing incidents from sources not commonly available to the American media, and which is obscured by unquestioning fealty to the Zionist propaganda that has enthralled our nation.

Folks, we are not guilty of the genocide in Auschwitz. Nor are the Palestinians guilty of that genocide. So, what do we owe the Zionists? No more than we owe any other nation and our own national self interest. What self interest do we serve by sitting by in non-committal approval and watch while Israel balkanizes the West Bank with a 25 foot high separation wall, expropriates Arab property within East Jerusalem and the Tel Aviv suburbs, and ghettoizes Gaza? None, as far as I can see.

The American people were suckered into the Vietnam War. We were lied to about the Iraqi connection to 9-11 and lead into a dreadful futile attack which killed maybe one hundred thousand Iraqis for no justifiable reason. And now we are being nudged toward a confrontation with Iran to suit the political needs of an Israeli boss. Maybe the American people ought to be able to start asking some hard questions instead of following the neo-con shepherds. This is as good a place as any to ask if and how we are once again being lied to without having others call us 'Jew-haters.'

If I make mistakes or if my information is wrong, criticize me and correct me. I welcome your adversary. But only a coward calls me a Jew hater.



Dvr22999874 -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/25/2015 3:39:45 PM)

Show me a war that the American people (and most other nationalities too), HAVEN'T been suckered into by greedy, lying, self-serving politicians and profit hungry, lying big business Vincent. I am just reading (again) about the American 'Manifest Destiny' and wondering how the hell the people stood for it. No worse than the 'Call of Empire' in Britain I guess.



Politesub53 -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/25/2015 4:51:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: luckyd0g

So PS believes that winning the majority of seats grants a party full power and the right to disregard the courts, murder their political opponents, and cancel further elections. ....

How sad...




Calling me sad is ironic comming from the man with many socks. You may wish to note I have never said any of the bullshit you continue to contribute to me.



Politesub53 -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/25/2015 4:55:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Rabid leftist / Islamist propagandists such as "polite" sub, tweaka, and vincent are incapable of understanding how their stupidity and their lies do their cause much more harm to good

They seem to think that everyone else hates Jews just as much as they do, therefore everyone else will just gloss over their vile demagoguery and accept it as fact




Laughable trollish stuff from the man who claims he dislikes trolls. I am guessing you disliked my propaganda saying it was okay to take out terrorists of any stripe.





Politesub53 -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/25/2015 5:02:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: luckyd0g

Fr---

While it is certainly true that opposing Israeli policy does not make one an anti-Semite, opposing Israel does not preclude one from being an anti-semite.

And if you have to tell lies in order to justify your opposition to Israel, you probably are an anti-Semitic piece of shit.


Dear oh dear, you just cant resist can you.



tweakabelle -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/25/2015 7:05:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


I had to go about half-way down the search page to go past all the biased US media, condemning Israel:

UN Condemns Hamas

quote:



UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon condemned on Friday the reported violation by Islamist Hamas militants of a 72-hour humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza and demanded the immediate, unconditional release of a captured Israeli soldier.

"He is shocked and profoundly disappointed by these developments," UN spokesman Stephane Dujarric said. "The secretary-general is deeply concerned about the resumption of Israeli attacks on Gaza."

"The secretary-general urges both sides to show maximum restraint and return to the agreed 72-hour humanitarian ceasefire that tragically lasted such a brief period of time," Dujarric said.

In a letter to the secretary-general, Ambassador Ron Prosor expressed his outrage on Friday that Hamas had violated a cease-fire agreement for the fifth time and called once again for the UN to designate Hamas as a terrorist organization. "It is time to hold Hamas accountable for its actions," he wrote.

Prosor called for the UN to condemn Hamas' murder of two Israeli soldiers and kidnapping of a third, Hadar Goldin, during the cease-fire and demanded that the Gaza Strip be demilitarized. The ambassador sent an identical copy of the letter to the Security Council's president for the month of August, Mark Lyall Grant.

"It is time for the international community to stop giving Hamas a free pass and see the group for what it is," Prosor said.



The terrorists waited until they had a cease fire in place to start up the shit, again.

I refer you back to the Netanyahu quote.



Michael

Sadly for your claims, the piece you quoted UN Secretary Ban Ki-Moon actually blames the Israelis for the resumption of hostilities, not Hamas.

The piece (from the not so impartial Jerusalem Post) specifically quotes the UN as saying: "The secretary-general is deeply concerned about the resumption of Israeli attacks on Gaza." (my emphasis).

The person blaming Hamas is the Israeli Ambassador to the UN Ron Prossor. One would hardly expect him to do anything else. To quote this person as delivering the authoritative truth is stretching things just a tad wouldn't you say?

So it seems that your claims that "The terrorists waited until they had a cease fire in place to start up the shit, again." seems to have gotten events ass about face and the evidence you posit to support your claims actually supports the opposite interpretation to the one you managed to find.

All up your mistaken claims are actually a very good metaphor for support for apartheid Israel - such support can only be based on a mistaken one-sided view of events in the conflict.



crazyml -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/26/2015 12:16:03 AM)

Ah, so you concede that you've lost the argument.

The strategy of accusing anyone who opposes Israel's violent oppression of another people, their systematic ethnic cleansing, and their illegal actions of being anti-Semitic is pitiful, because it is such a bare faced lie and provides all the proof anyone needs that the liar has nothing else to say.

But, there's no need to color me surprised, this is typical of the mindless right.



Moderator3 -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/26/2015 1:59:57 AM)

This thread will be locked for a break and for the time for me to go through it. Don't expect it worked very quickly.

If people want to accuse members of enjoying or supporting the deaths of children, we are stepping into a touchy trigger area and I am putting some thought into it and how it needs to be handled. There is such a thing as going too far to many here, besides what I have already said was going too far. I may have to revisit a few things and members that are pushing a bit too hard in Feisty.

I never said it was a free-for-all. Now, please do not go to other threads and go for the wild stuff. I will be there too and if it continues to be the wild west in feisty, I may have to act as sheriff. I really hoped that adults could have adult debate without pushing like naughty children taking advantage. Maybe I was giving far too much credit.



Moderator3 -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/26/2015 4:52:02 AM)

Accusing other members of being child killers, supporting child killers, rapist, encouraging rapist, killers, or anything of the like will now be an offence that I will have staff and members actively looking for. I will ask that if you see this, that you report it to staff.

You may be allowed many things in this section, but I think permission has led to over use. Temper some of this so that we don't have to be the bad guys.

Our goal was to let adults be adults, but screaming matches, bullies or those that can do nothing more than the argumentative and feisty, will prove to be an imbalance we have to temper, not because we like to be powerful and show you what's what, but because you are forcing our hand. Rather than kill the section, I will start a ban list. It's up to you all.



luckyd0g -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/26/2015 9:52:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


I had to go about half-way down the search page to go past all the biased US media, condemning Israel:

UN Condemns Hamas

quote:



UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon condemned on Friday the reported violation by Islamist Hamas militants of a 72-hour humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza and demanded the immediate, unconditional release of a captured Israeli soldier.

"He is shocked and profoundly disappointed by these developments," UN spokesman Stephane Dujarric said. "The secretary-general is deeply concerned about the resumption of Israeli attacks on Gaza."

"The secretary-general urges both sides to show maximum restraint and return to the agreed 72-hour humanitarian ceasefire that tragically lasted such a brief period of time," Dujarric said.

In a letter to the secretary-general, Ambassador Ron Prosor expressed his outrage on Friday that Hamas had violated a cease-fire agreement for the fifth time and called once again for the UN to designate Hamas as a terrorist organization. "It is time to hold Hamas accountable for its actions," he wrote.

Prosor called for the UN to condemn Hamas' murder of two Israeli soldiers and kidnapping of a third, Hadar Goldin, during the cease-fire and demanded that the Gaza Strip be demilitarized. The ambassador sent an identical copy of the letter to the Security Council's president for the month of August, Mark Lyall Grant.

"It is time for the international community to stop giving Hamas a free pass and see the group for what it is," Prosor said.



The terrorists waited until they had a cease fire in place to start up the shit, again.

I refer you back to the Netanyahu quote.



Michael

Sadly for your claims, the piece you quoted UN Secretary Ban Ki-Moon actually blames the Israelis for the resumption of hostilities, not Hamas.

The piece (from the not so impartial Jerusalem Post) specifically quotes the UN as saying: "The secretary-general is deeply concerned about the resumption of Israeli attacks on Gaza." (my emphasis).

The person blaming Hamas is the Israeli Ambassador to the UN Ron Prossor. One would hardly expect him to do anything else. To quote this person as delivering the authoritative truth is stretching things just a tad wouldn't you say?

So it seems that your claims that "The terrorists waited until they had a cease fire in place to start up the shit, again." seems to have gotten events ass about face and the evidence you posit to support your claims actually supports the opposite interpretation to the one you managed to find.

All up your mistaken claims are actually a very good metaphor for support for apartheid Israel - such support can only be based on a mistaken one-sided view of events in the conflict.



"UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon condemned on Friday the reported violation by Islamist Hamas militants of a 72-hour humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza and demanded the immediate, unconditional release of a captured Israeli soldier."

actually tweak, it is not just the Israeli ambassador It is Ban Ki Moon.



luckyd0g -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/26/2015 10:07:34 AM)

Ps, on the previous page you say that Hamas rule (winning an election, ignoring the judiciary, murdering their political opponent, and cancelling further elections) is Democracy.

That is how hamas got to the position of power they now hold. Basic, incontrovertible facts.

As is that Hamas is an internationalist Jihadi group, a wing of the Muslim brotherhood.

and that the Muslim Brotherhood, was developed, funded, and given organizational assistance by the actual Nazis pre WW2.

and that it is a virulently anti-Semitic organization.

The idea that someone would think that is democracy is sad.



vincentML -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/26/2015 10:17:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

Show me a war that the American people (and most other nationalities too), HAVEN'T been suckered into by greedy, lying, self-serving politicians and profit hungry, lying big business Vincent. I am just reading (again) about the American 'Manifest Destiny' and wondering how the hell the people stood for it. No worse than the 'Call of Empire' in Britain I guess.

I guess it was just difficult to ignore all that empty land, D. Also guess the onset of the industrial revolution (telegraph, railroads) encouraged expansion. But not cus the Bible told us to, although there were some who played that card as well.




vincentML -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/26/2015 10:26:24 AM)

quote:

and that the Muslim Brotherhood, was developed, funded, and given organizational assistance by the actual Nazis pre WW2.

and that it is a virulently anti-Semitic organization.


Give us sources for these characterizations please.



luckyd0g -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/26/2015 10:31:26 AM)

1939-1954[edit]

Main article: History of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt (1939-1954)

Links to the Nazis began during the 1930s and were close during the Second World War, involving agitation against the British, espionage and sabotage, as well as support for terrorist activities orchestrated by Haj Amin el-Hussaini in British Mandate Palestine, as a wide range of declassified documents from the British, American and Nazi German governmental archives, as well as from personal accounts and memoires from that period, confirm.[7] Reflecting this connection the Muslim Brotherhood also disseminated Hitler's Mein Kampf and The Protocols of the Elders of Zion widely in Arab translations, helping to deepen and extend already existing hostile views about Jews and Western societies generally.[8]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Muslim_Brotherhood_in_Egypt#1928-1938

That took less than 30 seconds Vincent, and is common knowledge to anyone with basic knowledge of these issues.



luckyd0g -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/26/2015 10:32:56 AM)

You could also read Hamas's charter.... they are not hiding who they are, what their goals are, or their anti-Semitism.



kdsub -> RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem (1/26/2015 10:42:25 AM)

Vincent we agree on so many subjects but not this one and it surprises me. I am trying to understand why you are so adamant in condemning just one side in this conflict. It is like a sports writer reporting on a 38 to 36 football score but only writing about the winning team with no mention at all of the losers. Is it because you think not enough people are aware of the atrocities committed against the Palestinian people by Israel? Or… do you think there is no blame to be shared by the Palestinians?

I am not being a smart ass but really want to understand you and where you stand. I just do not think you are an anti-Semitic like tweak and I seem to remember you with a more moderate position in the past. But of late you seem to refuse to understand that there are few true innocents in this conflict and that a resolution of peace will only be achieved by concessions from both sides.

Maybe it is just me, that is refusing to keep score between two sides equally at fault, that has the wrong idea on what is useful and what is not when it comes to the rhetoric of this mess and what it will take to solve it.

Butch



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