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bounty44 -> RE: Fox News -- Textbook Case of Baseless Right Wing Hysteria (1/24/2015 5:47:16 AM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CoSubGirl
I'm sorry but my aggravation at the bad reporting about supposed "no go" zones isn't any kind of hatred of Fox. It's because the it was so wrong. My roommate was watching it when it came on and he got all outraged by these "no go" zones and the "fact" that these zones were controlled by Muslims and run by Sharia law. I looked at him and said "that's utter bullshit" but he goes on to cite what the "expert" was saying. I continued to declare it bullshit, but told him I'd call my mom and look at the "map" they talked about. That's when I discovered that what the ZUS in France actually were. It didn't take me long to do the fact checking that Fox should have done. It was obvious that the report was meant to cause fear and outrage - which it did with my roommate. He was equally outraged to find out that Fox's experts had basically lied and that the story wasn't true. Fox has been tripping over itself to apologize, and rightly so.
Bounty - the fact is that the ZUS are NOT Muslim "no go" enclaves. The sources you cited basically picked up what one guy opined and repeated it. Repeating a lie won't make it true. Did you look at the link I posted to the French Wikipedia?
While I can't speak for the UK and the Netherlands, I can certainly speak for the situation in France and in particular Paris.
I've been to some of these "no go" zones as recently as November. Nope - frankly they're not a whole lot different than other parts of Paris.................
I understand your point about the ZUS not being muslim "no go" enclaves and yes I've done some reading about them afterwards, and I don't totally disagree with you.
I believe I reported Daniel pipes recanting/wishing he never called those places by that name. however at the same time, he also made the point (having been there himself too) that they are nevertheless what he would call places of semi autonomous rule.
some of what I posted came from other sources and people, so no, it wasn't the same "lie" picked up and spread around.
here is this from a former national geographic employee who blogs about travel:
"In France no-go zones are referred to as Zones Urbaines Sensibles (Sensitive Urban Zones). A few are truly no-go zones while most are just areas where the government is focusing more devlopment and police require special procedures to operate. A few (NOT ALL of the 751 ZUS, as falsely report in "anti-jihadist blogs," of these zones, primarily around Paris) are under control of radical Islamists. From these no-go zones around Paris and other urban centers, Islamic militants are waging a cultural and sometimes even guerrilla warfare against French police. The police are now taking to the streets in protest against the violence targeted at them in Lyons with police unions claiming there is a civil war against them."
there is also this:
"Jan. 16, 2008 update: Paul Belien of Brussels Journal provides an update on the ZUS, connecting them to organized crime in a way that helps explain police reluctance to intervene:
"In May [2007], the French voters elected Mr. [Nicolas] Sarkozy as president because he had promised to restore the authority of the Republic over France’s 751 no-go areas, the so-called zones urbaines sensibles (ZUS, sensitive urban areas), where 5 million people – 8 percent of the population – live. During his first months in office he has been too busy with other activities, such as selling nuclear plants to Libya and getting divorced. While the French media publish nude pictures of the future (third) Mrs. Sarkozy, the situation in the ZUS has remained as “sensitive” as before.
"People get mugged, even murdered, in the ZUS, but the media prefer not to write about it. When large-scale rioting erupts and officers and firemen are attacked, the behavior of the thugs is condoned with references to their “poverty” and to the “racism” of the indigenous French. The French media never devote their attention to the bleak situation of intimidation and lawlessness in which 8 percent of the population, including many poor indigenous French, are forced to live. Muslim racism toward the “infidels” is never mentioned.
"Xavier Raufer, a former French intelligence officer who heads the department on organized crime and terrorism at the Institute of Criminology of the University of Paris II, thinks that organized crime has a lot to do with the indifference of the French establishment.
"The ZUS are centers of drug trafficking. According to a recent report of the French government’s Interdepartmental Commission to Combat Drug Traffic and Addiction (MILDT) 550,000 people in France consume cannabis on a daily basis and 1.2 million on a regular basis. The annual cannabis consumption amounts to 208 tons for a market value of 832 million euros ($1.2 billion in U.S. dollars). MILDT estimates that there are between 6,000 and 13,000 small “entrepreneurs” and between 700 and 1,400 wholesalers who make a living out of dealing cannabis. The wholesalers earn up to 550,000 euros ($820,000) per year. Since they operate from within the ZUS the drug dealers are beyond the reach of the French authorities.
"The ZUS exist not only because Muslims wish to live in their own areas according to their own culture and their own Shariah laws, but also because organized crime wants to operate without the judicial and fiscal interference of the French state. In France, Shariah law and mafia rule have become almost identical."
and this:
"Despite the scale of the damage, French police have hesitated to make any arrests for fear of sparking more riots. Residents of the neighborhood know the names of the perpetrators but "nobody dares to speak for fear of reprisals." "You can no longer order a pizza or get a doctor to come to the house."
The French government has announced a plan to boost policing in 15 of the most crime-ridden parts of France in an effort to reassert state control over the country's so-called "no-go" zones: Muslim-dominated neighborhoods that are largely off limits to non-Muslims.
The crime-infested districts, which the French Interior Ministry has designated as Priority Security Zones (zones de sécurité prioritaires, or ZSP), include heavily Muslim parts of Paris, Marseilles, Strasbourg, Lille and Amiens, where Muslim youths recently went on a two-day arson rampage that caused extensive property damage and injured more than a dozen police officers.
The crackdown on lawlessness in the ZSP is set to begin in September, when French Interior Minister Manuel Valls plans to deploy riot police, detectives and intelligence agents into the selected areas. The hope is that a "North American-style" war on crime can prevent France's impoverished suburbs from descending into turmoil.
If the new policy results in a drop in crime, Valls is expected to name up to 40 more ZSP before the summer of 2013.
The initial 15 ZSP are: Seine-Saint-Denis (Saint-Denis, Saint-Ouen), Paris (Paris XVIIIe), les Yvelines (Mantes-la-Jolie, Mantes-la-Ville), l'Essonne (Corbeil-Essonne), la Somme (Amiens), le Nord (Lille), l'Oise (Méru et Chambly), la Moselle (Fameck et Uckange), le Bas-Rhin (Strasbourg), le Rhône (Lyon IXe), les Bouches-du-Rhône (Gardanne et Bouc-Bel-aire), Marseille (Marseille IIIe, XIIIe, XIVe, XVe et XVIe), le Gard (Vauvert et Saint-Gilles), l'Hérault (Lunel et Mauguio) et la Guyane (Cayenne, Matoury, Remire-Montjoly).
Many of these new ZSP coincide with Muslim neighborhoods that previous French governments have considered to be Sensitive Urban Zones. (Zones Urbaine Sensibles, or ZUS) -- also "no-go" zones for French police.
At last count, there were a total of 751 Sensitive Urban Zones, a comprehensive list of which can be found on a French government website, complete with satellite maps and precise street demarcations. An estimated five million Muslims live in the ZUS -- parts of France over which the French state has lost control.
Consider Seine-Saint-Denis, a notorious northern suburb of Paris, and home to an estimated 500,000 Muslims. Seine-Saint-Denis is divided into 40 administrative districts called communes, 36 of which are on the French government's official list of "no-go" zones.
Seine-Saint-Denis, also known locally as "Department 93" for the first two digits of the postal code for this suburb, witnessed fierce rioting by Muslim youths in 2005, when they torched more than 9,000 cars.
Seine-Saint-Denis, which has one of the highest rates of violent crime in France, is now among the initial 15 ZSPs because of widespread drug dealing and a rampant black market. Because, however, the suburb also has one of the highest unemployment rates in France -- 40% of those under the age of 25 are jobless -- it remains unlikely that a government crackdown will succeed in bringing down the crime rate in any permanent way.
Also on the list of ZSP is the department of La Somme, which encompasses the northern French city of Amiens. On August 12 and 13, around 100 Muslim youths in the impoverished Fafet-Brossolette district of Amiens went on a rampage after police arrested a man for driving without a license. Muslims viewed the arrest as "insensitive" because it came as many residents of the neighborhood were attending a funeral for Nadir Hadji, a 20-year-old Algerian youth who had died in a motorcycle accident on August 9. It later emerged, however, that police were called to an estate in northern Amiens after reports that youths were loading fireworks into a car. Police discovered as well the ingredients for petrol bombs, including empty bottles and a canister of gasoline -- hence the arrest.
In response to the riots, about 150 policemen and anti-riot police were deployed to the Fafet neighborhood and used tear gas, rubber bullets and even mobilized a helicopter after Muslim youths shot at them with buckshot, fireworks and other projectiles from nine in the evening until four in the morning.
At least 16 police officers were injured in the melee, one of them seriously. Youths also torched and destroyed a junior high school canteen, an anti-juvenile delinquency sports room, a leisure center, and a kindergarten, as well as 20 automobiles and 50 trash bins. The cost of repairing or rebuilding structures that were damaged or destroyed could run to €6 million ($7.4 million). (Photos here.)
Gilles Demailly, the Socialist mayor of Amiens, said the violence reflected a descent into lawlessness orchestrated by ever younger troublemakers: "There have been regular incidents here but it has been years since we've known a night as violent as this with so much damage done. The confrontations were very, very violent." He added, "For months I've been asking for the means to alleviate the neighborhood's problems because tension has been mounting here. You've got gangs of youths playing at being gangsters who have turned the area into a no-go zone. You can no longer order a pizza or get a doctor to come to the house."
The Fafet-Brossolette district of Amiens is home to mostly Muslim immigrants from former French colonies such as Algeria, Cameroon, Gabon, Mali, Morocco and Tunisia. Unemployment in the riot-hit part of Amiens runs at 45%. Among people under 25 years of age, who account for half the population, two out of three are out of work.
Despite the scale of the damage, French police have hesitated to make any arrests for fear of sparking more riots. Police did not, in fact, make any arrests until more than three days after the riots ended. A spokesperson for the local police said that four people between the ages of 15 and 30 were arrested in an overnight swoop on August 17 in connection with arson, robbery and trafficking stolen goods. Two of the individuals were immediately tried at the criminal court in Amiens and were quickly released on probation.
The clashes in Amiens follow more than five days of violence between rival Muslim gangs in the southwestern French city of Toulouse. Police in the city's Bagatelle district (officially classified as a ZUS "no-go" zone) have characterized the Muslim-on-Muslim violence as "a kind of guerilla war" between two gangs of individuals between the ages of 15 and 20. The violence was apparently due to "the result of a settlement of accounts between drug dealers, as well as because of old resentments exacerbated by boredom and the heat of the month of Ramadan."
On August 14, two local imams in Bagatelle organized a march through the streets calling on the youths to stop the violence. Local media reports say the residents of the neighborhood know the names of the perpetrators but "nobody dares to speak for fear of reprisals." According to the deputy imam of Bagatelle, Siali Lahouari, "it looks as if we are in Bosnia or Afghanistan, not Mirail [a suburb of Toulouse]."
In July 2010, Muslim youth in the La Villeneuve suburb of the southern city of Grenoble went on a rampage after police shot and killed an armed robber, Karim Boudouda, who had led police on a car chase after holding up the casino at Uriage-les-Bains, near Grenoble. The rioting started when an imam recited a prayer for the dead man in the presence of 50 Muslim youths who had gathered in a park. One of the youths fired a gun at riot police who were deployed to the neighborhood; the police then opened fire to disperse the crowd -- who then went on to torch 80 cars as well as several businesses.
In August 2009, around 40 Muslim rioters in the Paris suburb of Bagnolet hurled Molotov cocktails at police and firefighters; torched cars, and one person fired a handgun during a rampage prompted by the death of a teen pizza deliveryman who was fleeing from the police. The violence broke out after an 18-year-old, riding his motorcycle through the neighborhood, tried to flee a document check by police; the man lost control of his motorcycle, hit a barrier and died en route to the hospital.
In July 2009, Muslim youths torched more than 300 cars across France after the suicide death of an Algerian youth held in police custody on charges of extortion.
In October and November 2005, thousands of Muslim youths in Paris and other major cities in France went on a rampage after two young men in the Paris suburb of Clichy-sous-Bois were electrocuted when they entered an electric power substation while running away from police. Overall, the riots affected 274 towns and cities across France, and resulted in more than €200 million in property damage.
In response, the French government declared a "three-month state of emergency."
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3305/france-no-go-zones
so it seems to me, such places, whatever we want to call them, exist.
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