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RE: President Obama's State of the Union Speech - 1/22/2015 6:22:06 AM

Musicmystery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

so as to expand the size/scope of government.

as yet another form of wealth distribution.

so that he can be seen as pro education and when the republicans block any legislation along those lines he can demonize them.

because on the whole colleges are breeding grounds for progressivism.

The dangers of teaching people to think.

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RE: President Obama's State of the Union Speech - 1/22/2015 6:40:24 AM

Sanity

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Theyre taught to think...

They (college students and staff) voted overwhelmingly for Obama, and now by your own admission they ('progressive' types) shun him because they had absolutely no fucking clue who they were pushing so hard for

They were very obviously just blindly marching to Democrat party talking points

What they are taught, is leftist propaganda. What they are taught, is to unquestioningly submit to their leftist masters. Fear, mock, hate and loathe anyone who dares to speak up or step out of line

But think? Hardly.

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RE: President Obama's State of the Union Speech - 1/22/2015 6:48:16 AM

Musicmystery

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Simply shows

1) you know nothing about colleges and
2) you continue to see the world as left/right

Probably nothing will educate you from that myopic stance.

Now, there's plenty criticize about higher ed. But if their objective is indoctrination, they're doing a crappy job. http://dabacon.org/pontiff/?p=539

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 1/22/2015 6:51:17 AM >

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RE: President Obama's State of the Union Speech - 1/22/2015 7:05:47 AM

Sanity

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Had YOU been taught to think you wouldnt have to trollishly rely so exclusively on ad hominems to defend your positions

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RE: President Obama's State of the Union Speech - 1/22/2015 7:06:39 AM

mnottertail

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The University of Chicago was founded by John D Rockefeller, a notorious leftist, an alumni of the School of Economics was Milton Friedman, another famous leftist. Paul Wolfowitz, Robert Bork, John Paul Stevens.......many rabid leftists such as these have been brainwashed from their nutsuckerisms by the leftist universities.

For fucking stupid.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 1/22/2015 7:11:00 AM >

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RE: President Obama's State of the Union Speech - 1/22/2015 7:09:36 AM

Musicmystery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Had YOU been taught to think you wouldnt have to trollishly rely so exclusively on ad hominems to defend your positions

...said Sanity, choosing an ad hominem instead of a counter-argument, logic, or factual evidence.

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RE: President Obama's State of the Union Speech - 1/22/2015 7:10:18 AM

bounty44

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the chart, while interesting, is only a static picture at a moment in time. it doesn't capture what happens to students (in terms of world view thinking and political persuasion) as a result of time in college.

however, at the other end of the equation: college faculties (and administration) are overwhelmingly liberal and, as experience and evidence shows, are at times less interested in the marketplace of ideas, and more interested in cultivating people to their side. never minding at the moment the ostracizing and shutting up those who hold contrary views. (and please---the legal practices and news & commentary sites are full of example of students whose academic if not constitutional rights have been violated by leftist practice.)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8427-2005Mar28.html

that article points out "72 percent of those teaching at American universities and colleges are liberal and 15 percent are conservative

"The disparity is even more pronounced at the most elite schools, where, according to the study, 87 percent of faculty are liberal and 13 percent are conservative.

"The most left-leaning departments are English literature, philosophy, political science and religious studies, where at least 80 percent of the faculty say they are liberal and no more than 5 percent call themselves conservative"

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RE: President Obama's State of the Union Speech - 1/22/2015 7:11:25 AM

Musicmystery

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Again, if that's their agenda, they're really, really bad at it.

I look at outcomes. You look at attitudes. That's why I'm doing better.

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RE: President Obama's State of the Union Speech - 1/22/2015 7:13:08 AM

mnottertail

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They are liberal because it is a closer approximation to reality. The marketplace of ideas is as sold out by the nutsuckers as a russian liquor store. We can see no evidence of actual credible nutsucker ideas and haven't seen them since at least Reagans rise to power.

Oh, BTW....Obama had the idea of tax cuts, and now it seems the nutsuckers want to raise taxes. The nutsucker response was "Dead on arrival." So, they only have an idea as long as it lasts, to either: be for it before they were against it, or be against it before they were for it.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 1/22/2015 7:15:47 AM >

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RE: President Obama's State of the Union Speech - 1/22/2015 7:18:37 AM

Sanity

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Again, if that's their agenda, they're really, really bad at it.

You are so full of shit

quote:

In 2008, youth votes played an integral role in President Barack Obama's election, but could the game change in 2012?

A new national poll of more than 4,000 high school and college students shows a strong preference for Obama...

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RE: President Obama's State of the Union Speech - 1/22/2015 7:25:00 AM

Musicmystery

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Your link shows 54% of college students supporting Obama, 45% of high school students.

That's a pretty ineffective indoctrination program.

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RE: President Obama's State of the Union Speech - 1/22/2015 7:25:59 AM

bounty44

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here's a little bit of a view, at least one slice of it:

"According to a recent study by the Higher Education Research Institute at UCLA, the number of students who frequently attend religious services drops by 23 percent after three years in college.[1]

"The research also confirms that 36 percent rated their spirituality lower after three years in college.

"Another study, the "College Student Survey," asked students to indicate their current religious commitment. Comparing the responses of freshmen who checked the "born again" category with the answers they gave four years later, we find that on some campuses as high as 59 percent no longer describe themselves as "born again."[2] That’s a fallout rate of almost two-thirds!"

http://www.summit.org/resources/essays/students-abandoning-the-faith/

< Message edited by bounty44 -- 1/22/2015 7:26:51 AM >

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RE: President Obama's State of the Union Speech - 1/22/2015 7:36:18 AM

Musicmystery

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Which proves what?

I went to college a Catholic, and stopped attending mass, not because anyone told me anything, but because I no longer saw the relevance of church and religion in my life.

People start making conscious decisions about their lives. One of my friends, a college professor, decided he wanted to help in a different way, and became a minister.

If there's an issue at all, it would likely be "NO! Don't think for yourself! Think what the church tells you to think!" and if that's the case, then I can see how going off to college -- or into the woods, or traveling the world, or anything that pulls you out of that context -- would see a dropping off of followers who were only following unthinkingly, while those for whom that religion has a greater resonance remain.

Still others find a religion better suited to who they are and how they experience the divine. I started studying Zen in college, simply to help with the pressures of professional music performance, and learned about a range of Eastern religions that not only served me better, but helped me to understand Christianity better as well.

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RE: President Obama's State of the Union Speech - 1/22/2015 7:41:09 AM

Lucylastic

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Do you think that the loss of "christian" belief in college is the biggest issue in education?

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RE: President Obama's State of the Union Speech - 1/22/2015 7:48:18 AM

mnottertail

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

here's a little bit of a view, at least one slice of it:

"According to a recent study by the Higher Education Research Institute at UCLA, the number of students who frequently attend religious services drops by 23 percent after three years in college.[1]

"The research also confirms that 36 percent rated their spirituality lower after three years in college.

"Another study, the "College Student Survey," asked students to indicate their current religious commitment. Comparing the responses of freshmen who checked the "born again" category with the answers they gave four years later, we find that on some campuses as high as 59 percent no longer describe themselves as "born again."[2] That’s a fallout rate of almost two-thirds!"

http://www.summit.org/resources/essays/students-abandoning-the-faith/

Heres a bit of a view:

How about those that never attended from the moment they were free to not attend, even before college? Could this study be retrofitted to insure an even higher level of non-sequitur and a greater offer of no link to causality?

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RE: President Obama's State of the Union Speech - 1/22/2015 7:55:42 AM

Sanity

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Your link shows 54% of college students supporting Obama, 45% of high school students.

That's a pretty ineffective indoctrination program.

Intellectual honesty is clearly an issue with you:

quote:

Among college students, Obama is favored over Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney by more than 30 percentage points.

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RE: President Obama's State of the Union Speech - 1/22/2015 7:57:51 AM

bounty44

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heres another small slice:

"freshman-to-senior changes in several characteristics have been occurring with considerable uniformity in most American colleges and universities," namely "...together with decreasingly conservative attitudes toward public issues..."

there is obviously a ton I left out, but what I quoted is the key point for the "argument" at hand.

http://education.stateuniversity.com/pages/1844/College-its-Effect-on-Students.html

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RE: President Obama's State of the Union Speech - 1/22/2015 8:02:00 AM

Musicmystery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Your link shows 54% of college students supporting Obama, 45% of high school students.

That's a pretty ineffective indoctrination program.

Intellectual honesty is clearly an issue with you:

quote:

Among college students, Obama is favored over Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney by more than 30 percentage points.

Apparently, it's an issue for you as well. Obama won the election with 51% of the vote, so those percentages aren't far from the national average.

But if the point was indoctrination, and only 45-55% took the bait, the indoctrination program is shit.

From there, the issue is that Romney ran an openly dishonest campaign. Even FOX called him on it.

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RE: President Obama's State of the Union Speech - 1/22/2015 8:02:30 AM

Sanity

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

heres another small slice:

"freshman-to-senior changes in several characteristics have been occurring with considerable uniformity in most American colleges and universities," namely "...together with decreasingly conservative attitudes toward public issues..."

there is obviously a ton I left out, but what I quoted is the key point for the "argument" at hand.

http://education.stateuniversity.com/pages/1844/College-its-Effect-on-Students.html

Its so strange to argue with people who have to know something which is blatantly obvious, in this case that academia is skewed far to the left, and just to prove how stupid and obtuse they can be they try desperately to argue the exact opposite

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RE: President Obama's State of the Union Speech - 1/22/2015 8:03:29 AM

Musicmystery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

heres another small slice:

"freshman-to-senior changes in several characteristics have been occurring with considerable uniformity in most American colleges and universities," namely "...together with decreasingly conservative attitudes toward public issues..."

there is obviously a ton I left out, but what I quoted is the key point for the "argument" at hand.

http://education.stateuniversity.com/pages/1844/College-its-Effect-on-Students.html

And that's because, as your link points out, "college graduates as a group, of all ages and in all periods, more frequently possess knowledge about public affairs, people in the news, geography, history, humanities, sciences, and popular culture than do adults who had lesser amounts of schooling"

People learn to think for themselves, instead of swallowing talking points.

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