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RE: DOJ and FBI find no evidence... - 1/22/2015 11:40:21 AM   
stef


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

But, I guess in a gun culture such as the US, the gun comes first and any other consideration comes a poor second.

I'm tempted to ask if you are really enough of an idiot to actually believe this, but I already know the answer to that so it would be a complete waste of time.

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: DOJ and FBI find no evidence... - 1/22/2015 11:40:53 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

You mean a criminal fleeing a felony robbery who refused to obey a lawful order and attacked a police officer.

But is that a justifiable use of a firearm?? Really?

Yeah. Really. And neither the Grand Jury nor the Federal investigation by a distinctly less-than-sympathetic Department of Justice found evidence to support an indictment in the circumstances. Now go pound sand. This isn't the UK. Get used to it.

K.


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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: DOJ and FBI find no evidence... - 1/22/2015 11:56:47 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

You mean a criminal fleeing a felony robbery who refused to obey a lawful order and attacked a police officer.

But is that a justifiable use of a firearm?? Really?

Yeah. Really. And neither the Grand Jury nor the Federal investigation by a distinctly less-than-sympathetic Department of Justice found evidence to support an indictment in the circumstances. Now go pound sand. This isn't the UK. Get used to it.

K.



We also have armed police and I'm fairly sure that here, even when armed, the first response would be NOT to shoot.
And there's the difference.

You have a law, just like ours, that says excessive force is illegal and the perpetrator should face charges to explain themselves and justify their use of that deadly force.

So what happened in all the other cases quoted in CB's link?
There is only one common denominator: they were all black.
Therein lies a good reason to re-open the cases and have each one properly scrutinised by an independent legal body.


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RE: DOJ and FBI find no evidence... - 1/22/2015 12:00:06 PM   
cloudboy


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Well, according to his testimony, Wilson was attacked by a Demon --- so six shots were necessary to kill Brown, who was unarmed and no longer near the police car anymore.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 1/22/2015 12:01:19 PM >

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RE: DOJ and FBI find no evidence... - 1/22/2015 12:02:23 PM   
CreativeDominant


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Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


Justice Department lawyers will recommend that no civil rights charges be brought against the police officer who fatally shot an unarmed teenager in Ferguson, Mo., after an F.B.I. investigation found no evidence to support charges... Federal investigators interviewed more than 200 people and analyzed cellphone audio and video... Officer Wilson’s gun, clothing and other evidence were analyzed at the F.B.I.’s laboratory in Quantico, Va. Though the local authorities and Mr. Brown’s family conducted autopsies, Mr. Holder ordered a separate autopsy, which was conducted by pathologists from the Armed Forces Medical Examiner’s office at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware... ~NY Times

The lying pieces of shit who ginned up a firestorm of lootings and murders had no comment.

K.






Of course you do know the background issues are quite complicated.

For instance, consider the case of Tamir Rice. How do you rationally explain that one?

Leave it to you cloud...Despite what you and sooooo many wanted, not even Eric Holder's DOJ nor the FBI could find reason to prosecute Darren Wilson. But instead of stating that maybe the cop WAS justified, you come back with some other tangent...Why?

Because you can't handle the truth over this case?

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RE: DOJ and FBI find no evidence... - 1/22/2015 12:06:01 PM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Well, according to his testimony, Wilson was attacked by a Demon --- so six shots were necessary to kill Brown, who was unarmed and no longer near the police car anymore.

You can keep arguing all you want, cloud...again, apparently neither Eric Holder (black), nor the department he is head of, nor the FBI agree with you.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: DOJ and FBI find no evidence... - 1/22/2015 12:12:56 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

There are loads of other ways to deal with this situation.


I think we can all agree with the above... I am sure Wilson would agree with the above...But of course we have time to think about it...He did not have that luxury. Training or no training when things happen this quickly we can all make terrible mistakes... he made one but not a criminal one nor was it his fault. He was put in that situation by Brown and only Brown.

I do think good things can come from this...especially a new realization by police that this could happen to them and they will be thinking of this when they have a gun in their hand. The cameras are good as well even though they do not give the whole story either. The bullshit about the court system is just that... don't break the law and you will not be before a judge... if you do your economic situation should mean nothing.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 1/22/2015 12:14:14 PM >

_____________________________

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: DOJ and FBI find no evidence... - 1/22/2015 12:15:03 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

You mean a criminal fleeing a felony robbery who refused to obey a lawful order and attacked a police officer.

But is that a justifiable use of a firearm?? Really?

Yeah. Really. And neither the Grand Jury nor the Federal investigation by a distinctly less-than-sympathetic Department of Justice found evidence to support an indictment in the circumstances. Now go pound sand. This isn't the UK. Get used to it.

K.



We also have armed police and I'm fairly sure that here, even when armed, the first response would be NOT to shoot.
And there's the difference.

You have a law, just like ours, that says excessive force is illegal and the perpetrator should face charges to explain themselves and justify their use of that deadly force.

So what happened in all the other cases quoted in CB's link?
There is only one common denominator: they were all black.
Therein lies a good reason to re-open the cases and have each one properly scrutinised by an independent legal body.


Of course they were all black.
If you followed CBs posts you would know that he blames anything worse than the common cold that happens to a black person to be racism and wouldn't show a white "victim" if 90% were white.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: DOJ and FBI find no evidence... - 1/22/2015 12:36:58 PM   
Kirata


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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

So what happened in all the other cases quoted in CB's link?
There is only one common denominator: they were all black.

Fuck you and the race card. I'm not familiar with the details in all of them, but I'd be willing to bet that you aren't either. There is only one common denominator in the cases because those are the cases the author selected to present. Blacks aren't the only people shot by police. I can find cases of white kids being killed too, in one case by a black cop.

In case you're not aware, in every place that I've ever lived the police can issue amplified commands through a speaker from inside their vehicle. So we can't say they didn't warn Tamir Rice just because we can't hear it. The video has no sound. And in the Gardner video, he didn't start saying he couldn't breathe until the cops were kneeling on him because he was still resisting.

The lesson to be learned here is to obey lawful orders and don't resist arrest. With that as a clue, see if you can guess why Julia Shields was taken into custody without incident. Don't strain yourself. Take your time.

For further information, see here.

K.



< Message edited by Kirata -- 1/22/2015 12:56:46 PM >

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: DOJ and FBI find no evidence... - 1/22/2015 12:37:35 PM   
freedomdwarf1


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Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

There are loads of other ways to deal with this situation.


I think we can all agree with the above... I am sure Wilson would agree with the above...But of course we have time to think about it...

And that is where the training comes into it - think first, act after consideration.
Maybe that is where the difference is between the US and other countries when it comes to guns.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
He did not have that luxury. Training or no training when things happen this quickly we can all make terrible mistakes...

And again, therein lies the difference between the US and other countries.

If a mistake is made, there are proceedures to deal with these mistakes and the judiciary where the officer(s) in question face the charges first and prove that they were justified in their actions.

In the US, it seems that you have different ways of letting a death happen with nobody being held accountable for it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
he made one but not a criminal one nor was it his fault. He was put in that situation by Brown and only Brown.

And what of the "excessive force" laws?
There again, that is where the US differs from almost anywhere else.
The charge of excessive force rarely seems to be applied whereas almost anywhere else, it's the first thing that is brought up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
I do think good things can come from this...especially a new realization by police that this could happen to them and they will be thinking of this when they have a gun in their hand.

I don't think so because of the type of training your police seem to have.

In most other places, it's anything and everything else first, guns last and even then only when absolutely everything else has failed.
Your guys seem to be trained in shoot first, ask questions later; and it appears in the majority of cases that they get away with it by the judiciary not pushing what laws you have.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
The cameras are good as well even though they do not give the whole story either. The bullshit about the court system is just that... don't break the law and you will not be before a judge... if you do your economic situation should mean nothing.

The problem is, as per CB's link -
Shouldn’t more people, in equal measures, be taken in and not taken out?
It begs the question when compared to other countries.

ETA: Yes, I know CB's posts tend to be racist but I tried to take that element out.

As for "investigation found no evidence to support charges"....
Ummm... a police officer with a smoking gun and a dead body?? Are they blind?


< Message edited by freedomdwarf1 -- 1/22/2015 12:51:59 PM >

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: DOJ and FBI find no evidence... - 1/22/2015 1:57:52 PM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Well, according to his testimony, Wilson was attacked by a Demon --- so six shots were necessary to kill Brown, who was unarmed and no longer near the police car anymore.

You
A Know he made no such claim
B Should but most likely don't know that if you have to fire you do so till they stop coming, and that Brown didn't stop coming till the 6th hit.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: DOJ and FBI find no evidence... - 1/22/2015 2:00:41 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

There are loads of other ways to deal with this situation.


I think we can all agree with the above... I am sure Wilson would agree with the above...But of course we have time to think about it...He did not have that luxury. Training or no training when things happen this quickly we can all make terrible mistakes... he made one but not a criminal one nor was it his fault. He was put in that situation by Brown and only Brown.

I do think good things can come from this...especially a new realization by police that this could happen to them and they will be thinking of this when they have a gun in their hand. The cameras are good as well even though they do not give the whole story either. The bullshit about the court system is just that... don't break the law and you will not be before a judge... if you do your economic situation should mean nothing.

Butch

Right it is always easier to come up with a plan in the safety of your living room in six months than to come up with a plan when a guy who has already proven he can stomp you into the ground charging at you in 6 seconds.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: DOJ and FBI find no evidence... - 1/22/2015 2:04:27 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
Shouldn’t more people, in equal measures, be taken in and not taken out?
It begs the question when compared to other countries.

ETA: Yes, I know CB's posts tend to be racist but I tried to take that element out.

As for "investigation found no evidence to support charges"....
Ummm... a police officer with a smoking gun and a dead body?? Are they blind?

No, they aren't blind...not just willing to let that be the only picture they look at.

What is it about a Grand Jury AND a DOJ investigation (led by Eric "America is Racist" Holder) AND a FBI investigation that you don't feel was thorough enough?

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: DOJ and FBI find no evidence... - 1/22/2015 4:58:01 PM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
Shouldn’t more people, in equal measures, be taken in and not taken out?
It begs the question when compared to other countries.

ETA: Yes, I know CB's posts tend to be racist but I tried to take that element out.

As for "investigation found no evidence to support charges"....
Ummm... a police officer with a smoking gun and a dead body?? Are they blind?

No, they aren't blind...not just willing to let that be the only picture they look at.

What is it about a Grand Jury AND a DOJ investigation (led by Eric "America is Racist" Holder) AND a FBI investigation that you don't feel was thorough enough?


You forget who you are talking to. Wilson had a gun, therefor he is evil.
Wilson was a cop, therefor he is evil. Wilson is white, therefor he is evil.
Wilson is an American therefore he is evil. Wilson is an American therefor he didn't know what he was doing. This happened in America therefor Holder (as he always does with obvious white racist) gave him a pass.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: DOJ and FBI find no evidence... - 1/22/2015 5:56:09 PM   
DaddySatyr


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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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"You forget who you are talking to. Wilson had a gun, therefor he is evil.
Wilson was a cop, therefor he is evil. Wilson is white, therefor he is evil (... and a racist).
Wilson is an American therefore he is evil. Wilson is an American therefor he didn't know what he was doing. This happened in America therefor Holder (as he always does with obvious white racist) gave him a pass."

Fixed it for ya, Bama!



Michael

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Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: DOJ and FBI find no evidence... - 1/22/2015 6:48:25 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


"You forget who you are talking to. Wilson had a gun, therefor he is evil.
Wilson was a cop, therefor he is evil. Wilson is white, therefor he is evil (... and a racist).
Wilson is an American therefore he is evil. Wilson is an American therefor he didn't know what he was doing. This happened in America therefor Holder (as he always does with obvious white racist) gave him a pass."

Fixed it for ya, Bama!



Michael

Thanks thought I had included that.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: DOJ and FBI find no evidence... - 1/22/2015 6:58:10 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		A little more change for clarity...

"You forget who you are talking to. Wilson had a gun, therefor he is evil.(...and a Yahoo most likely Republican )
Wilson was a cop, therefor he is evil.(...and a black baby killer) Wilson is white, therefor he is evil (... and a racist).
Wilson is an American therefore he is evil.(...and a Zionist supporter advocating the killing of baby Palestinians) Wilson is an American therefor he didn't know what he was doing.(... because it is a proven fact somewhere that Americans are much less intelligent than Europeans) This happened in America therefore Holder (as he always does with obvious white racist) gave him a pass."(...Because all Americans that disagree with Europeans are Yahoo Republican black baby killing Zionists loving dumb asses)

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: DOJ and FBI find no evidence... - 1/22/2015 7:01:00 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

A little more change for clarity...

"You forget who you are talking to. Wilson had a gun, therefor he is evil.(...and a Yahoo most likely Republican )
Wilson was a cop, therefor he is evil.(...and a black baby killer) Wilson is white, therefor he is evil (... and a racist).
Wilson is an American therefore he is evil.(...and a Zionist supporter advocating the killing of baby Palestinians) Wilson is an American therefor he didn't know what he was doing.(... because it is a proven fact somewhere that Americans are much less intelligent than Europeans) This happened in America therefore Holder (as he always does with obvious white racist) gave him a pass."(...Because all Americans that disagree with Europeans are Yahoo Republican black baby killing Zionists loving dumb asses)

Butch

LOL

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: DOJ and FBI find no evidence... - 1/22/2015 7:03:52 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

A little more change for clarity...

"You forget who you are talking to. Wilson had a gun, therefor he is evil.(...and a Yahoo most likely Republican )
Wilson was a cop, therefor he is evil.(...and a black baby killer) Wilson is white, therefor he is evil (... and a racist).
Wilson is an American therefore he is evil.(...and a Zionist supporter advocating the killing of baby Palestinians) Wilson is an American therefor he didn't know what he was doing.(... because it is a proven fact somewhere that Americans are much less intelligent than Europeans) This happened in America therefore Holder (as he always does with obvious white racist) gave him a pass."(...Because all Americans that disagree with Europeans are Yahoo Republican black baby killing Zionists loving dumb asses)

Butch

Under didn't know what he was doing I was referring to the repeated proclamations he has made about how much better the British police are (of course they still don't seem to have arrested him for his illegal mace).

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: DOJ and FBI find no evidence... - 1/22/2015 7:25:54 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
You mean a criminal fleeing a felony robbery who refused to obey a lawful order and attacked a police officer.

But is that a justifiable use of a firearm?? Really?

Yeah. Really. And neither the Grand Jury nor the Federal investigation by a distinctly less-than-sympathetic Department of Justice found evidence to support an indictment in the circumstances. Now go pound sand. This isn't the UK. Get used to it.
K.

We also have armed police and I'm fairly sure that here, even when armed, the first response would be NOT to shoot.
And there's the difference.
You have a law, just like ours, that says excessive force is illegal and the perpetrator should face charges to explain themselves and justify their use of that deadly force.
So what happened in all the other cases quoted in CB's link?
There is only one common denominator: they were all black.
Therein lies a good reason to re-open the cases and have each one properly scrutinised by an independent legal body.


1. The other cases don't matter in this thread.

2. The FBI and the US DOJ were the ones scrutinizing the case. That those two bodies didn't find reason to bring civil rights charges.

If you think for even the briefest wisps of time that Eric Holder and the US DOJ under him wouldn't have brought charges if there was evidence they could use, then you're simply detached from reality.



_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 40
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