RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice?

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littleladybug -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (2/2/2015 6:33:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: usememistress775 When someone you love dies, the live is still there. That dull ache that comes upon you when you are not expecting it. The pain you feel at no longer being able to interact with that person is a small sacrifice in and of itself. How is that pain a "sacrifice"? I feel it everyday, to one extent or another, and I see it as nothing more than a case of "it is what it is" and try to move on. Perhaps the "sacrifice" I made was getting involved with a man who was ill, and who I knew fairly well would die before me. But, even thinking of it that way, I view it simply as a choice. A choice I made for my own personal happiness. Just recently, I went out of town for a couple of weeks. My man offered to take care of my dogs and drive me to and from the airport (over an hour each way). While I certainly appreciated the offers, I wouldn't have thought that he loved me any less if he hadn't made them. "Love" to me is not measured by the number of minutes someone is willing to spend on the freeway to drive me to and pick me up from the airport (especially when a flight gets in late at night, and he has to be at work early the next morning). The day before I was set to leave, I said to him "you know, I can drive myself to the airport". His response? "Baby, I WANT to do this". This was his choice, freely given. Was this a "sacrifice"? Maybe, in the broadest sense of the word. After all, he paid for gas and had to spend a couple of hours in the car. But, if this were defined as a sacrifice, what else would be? Him watching the Super Bowl with me yesterday when he'd rather be watching just about anything else? Me spending a stupid number of hours making him the "perfect Christmas gift"? Me going out to run errands with him, just to keep him company, when I'd rather be doing just about anything else? In my mind, all of these are simply things you do for someone you care about. Things that give you happiness because it makes them happy. To label it as "sacrifice" puts unnecessary importance on the act and sets it up for "scorecard keeping" which, in my experience, never ends well. Would he have "loved me more" if he chose to take time off work to drive me to the airport? I am a firm believer in actions speaking louder than words. However, I would never expect (nor really want to be with) someone who would act purely to their own detriment in the name of "love".

needlesandpins -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (2/2/2015 6:48:36 AM)
FieryOpal, I was being a little sarcastic in response to Peon's earlier statement. It wasn't meant that there was any intention that I thought the poem gooey at all. it's was meant like saying that this following poem was as romantic as I ever got over valentine's day. The roses have wilted, The violets won’t bloom, But for them there’s no place, In my BDSM room. Bugger St Valentine, He’s really the pits, With his soppy old verses, He gets right on my tits. They say Romance is dead, It’s simply not true, He’s chained in the corner, While I’m waiting for you. Get into your latex, I’ve space on my wall, I’m rattling the cuffs, Now answer their call! My teeth have an itch, That I really must scratch, I’ll leave marks on your arse, Just so that we match. You look great in rubber, Kilt and Rocks just divine, I must have you now, Be my Anti-Valentine! [:D][;)] needles

GoddessManko -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (2/2/2015 6:53:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littleladybug quote: ORIGINAL: usememistress775 When someone you love dies, the live is still there. That dull ache that comes upon you when you are not expecting it. The pain you feel at no longer being able to interact with that person is a small sacrifice in and of itself. How is that pain a "sacrifice"? I feel it everyday, to one extent or another, and I see it as nothing more than a case of "it is what it is" and try to move on. Perhaps the "sacrifice" I made was getting involved with a man who was ill, and who I knew fairly well would die before me. But, even thinking of it that way, I view it simply as a choice. A choice I made for my own personal happiness. Just recently, I went out of town for a couple of weeks. My man offered to take care of my dogs and drive me to and from the airport (over an hour each way). While I certainly appreciated the offers, I wouldn't have thought that he loved me any less if he hadn't made them. "Love" to me is not measured by the number of minutes someone is willing to spend on the freeway to drive me to and pick me up from the airport (especially when a flight gets in late at night, and he has to be at work early the next morning). The day before I was set to leave, I said to him "you know, I can drive myself to the airport". His response? "Baby, I WANT to do this". This was his choice, freely given. Was this a "sacrifice"? Maybe, in the broadest sense of the word. After all, he paid for gas and had to spend a couple of hours in the car. But, if this were defined as a sacrifice, what else would be? Him watching the Super Bowl with me yesterday when he'd rather be watching just about anything else? Me spending a stupid number of hours making him the "perfect Christmas gift"? Me going out to run errands with him, just to keep him company, when I'd rather be doing just about anything else? In my mind, all of these are simply things you do for someone you care about. Things that give you happiness because it makes them happy. To label it as "sacrifice" puts unnecessary importance on the act and sets it up for "scorecard keeping" which, in my experience, never ends well. Would he have "loved me more" if he chose to take time off work to drive me to the airport? I am a firm believer in actions speaking louder than words. However, I would never expect (nor really want to be with) someone who would act purely to their own detriment in the name of "love". You're kind of amazing. Good head sitting squarely on your shoulders, good heart beating in your chest. Also needles, LOL, I think I'll be my subbie's anti-Valentine. Thinking of taking him to an allegedly haunted city for sightseeing.

needlesandpins -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (2/2/2015 7:01:51 AM)
a haunted city for Valentine's day would be right up my street lol needles

littleladybug -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (2/2/2015 8:33:19 AM)
An additional thought... Far be it from me to speak for someone else, but I'll take the chance to speak for my man in this case. [:D] If I were a betting person, I would wager that if he was asked how he knew that I love him, one of the first things he would say is that I "take care of him" and that I "think about him". How do I do that? Simple things, really. No "sacrifice" required. He's a diabetic, so I am cognizant of that when I prepare meals for us. When he says he has a yen for brownies, I get the sugar free mix and make them for him. (Still looking for decent "made from scratch" ones...but I digress...) When I was away, I looked for something to get for him. You know, a simple "thinking about you while I'm enjoying my vacay" gift. He has 3 llamas, two of which he takes while he hikes. All of them are "rescues". He adores them. I don't get it...but I love the fact that he is so fond of them. In my travels, I found a small llama statue, as well as a stuffed one. Well, of course I was going to get them for him. No "sacrifice" on my part, except for the 20 bucks out of my pocket. He told me after I gave them to him that no one has ever gotten him "anything llama". 15 years of having them. No one thought of it, until I came along. "Sacrifice" is not something that is expected in our relationship, and I like it that way. I wouldn't have thought not to find "something llama" for him...or think about not taking his dietary needs into consideration in what I cook for us. I am fortunate that he views "love" the same way that I do. My relationship is not about martyrdom. I don't have to "lose" something in order to show him love. I am truly blessed that he sees things the same way I do.

CreativeDominant -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (2/2/2015 9:15:22 AM)
I've read all through this thread and I come down on the side of "if love is all about sacrifice, then I don't want it". Compromise? To be sure. But I have had the situation where someone looked at me and said "look at all I give up for you...every single day", with the implication being that I should do as they asked dice they'd paid me with their sacrifice. That's guilt production, that's not love. Guilt and sacrifice are not the coinage of love. I made a horrible decision one time while involved with a woman who loved me. When she found out, we went through a lot of tears and pain. But not once did she ever sit there and reel off a list of sacrifices she had made. And when I tried to make it up to her and keep her and it didn't work, I didn't say "look at all the sacrifices I've made to keep you". They weren't sacrifices...they were attempts to be what I should have been during my careless time. The things I do for someone are done out of what I feel, not out of "tut for tat" or a misplaced sense of nobility, nor some cheapass way to buy something which can't...or shouldn't be able to...be bought.

NookieNotes -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (2/2/2015 9:54:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FieryOpal To no one in particular, what if the topic instead was "Does Lust Require Sacrifice?" or "Does Passion (or Passionate Desire) Require Sacrifice?" Would anybody's responses be different or stay the same? Mine would be the same. quote: In other words, at what cost "Lust"? At what cost "Passion" or "Passionate Desire"? At what cost "Love" (whether Passionate Love or not)? Would you (plural) go to the ends of the earth out of Lust? Passion? or Love? I may. I have been known to sacrifice for someone I love. However, I still do not believe that sacrifice in some way defined the love or made it more true. That's my sticking point. Not that I would not do it. But that I would not require it or a willingness for it (especially without knowing what "it" actually will be) for me to define my love as real or true, or whatever. quote: In more practical terms, would you relocate to be with the one you love? What would you be willing to sacrifice for love? I have, before. And men have for me. Would I again? Maybe. Until the situation arises, I can't say for sure. So, does that make my love ambivalent? I don't think so. quote: I have heard many say they are unwilling to make any compromises if they found an otherwise ideal partner. I have been guilty of adopting this same hard-line position before, of getting hung up on the word "compromise," as if it entailed making a "sacrifice" I would be unwilling to make. Of course, this is contingent on what kind of "compromise" would be involved. Ok, so this does not make sense to me. pardon me... To say I would not make ANY compromise would say that it doesn't matter what kind of compromise. And I find compromise a much better word than sacrifice. I will compromise until the cows come home, and do, often. But I do not equate compromise and sacrifice. Unless to say that sacrifice can be compromise on crack-'roids. grins quote: I have heard others say that once they found (or have already found) their ideal partner, nothing would feel like they had to compromise in order to be with the one they love, so gladdened are their hearts, spirit and soul. And I understand this sentiment. It's mostly true, but, to me, it is still compromise. I have not seen this in this thread, as we've been talking about sacrifice... unless I missed it. And that is a HUGE degree of difference in my world. quote: @Nookie, I do believe I know where you (and Peon, from the other side) are coming from. I don't disagree with your right to feel the way you do, and I don't think it comes from a place of selfish disregard, egotism, or anything like that. Excellent. It's not. smiles quote: On a personal note, I have found my ideal mate, and I have lost him. I did not take care of him to his dying breath out of duty to my family only, as if it were obligatory. The sacrifices I have made to be caregiver to my elderly mother until she passed, and to my late husband, were not obligatory. They were made out of love and devotion. Of course. I am not interested in defining YOUR world. I think your world is pretty awesome, and I'm glad I'm a part of it in some small way. To me, useme was trying to define your world and mine, and everyone else's by saying that love is not love without sacrifice or the willingness to. THAT is an idea I reject. And will reject over and over. Because that is not my world. Yes, I am willing to sacrifice for many I love. There are those I love, though, that I will not sacrifice for.

satanscharmer -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (2/2/2015 10:19:06 AM)
FR- I see the term 'compromise' thrown out a few times and the funny thing is, that term to me is more negative than 'sacrifice'. To compromise, I think settling or trade-offs. I'm getting this so I'll settle for that. To sacrifice, it's not expecting anything in return. Eh, perceptions will be different. Sacrifice is not something I want someone to do for me but if they did, I'd only be grateful. Sacrifices and compromises aren't typically something someone is generally out looking for, but they happen. Sometimes small and insignificant, sometimes much larger, and sometimes not at all. Either way, they're not included in my definition of love. P.s. I never could get through Wuthering Heights. Or many romantic classics for that matter.

Musicmystery -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (2/2/2015 10:53:29 AM)
~FR~ quote: Does Love Require Sacrifice? This thread, despite the passionate positions, is just semantics. If you think what you're doing is sacrifice--then you're in the wrong relationship.

FieryOpal -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (2/2/2015 1:01:36 PM)
Btw, the word Infatuation pretty much covers Passionate Desire and Love in it's nascent stages, but often gets confused with Lust, so that's why I had made those distinctions. Thanks for saying, and I think what little I know of your world sounds fascinating, and it seems to work for you and those within your innermost circle, which is what matters. quote: ORIGINAL: NookieNotes I am not interested in defining YOUR world. I think your world is pretty awesome, and I'm glad I'm a part of it in some small way. To me, useme was trying to define your world and mine, and everyone else's by saying that love is not love without sacrifice or the willingness to. THAT is an idea I reject. And will reject over and over. Because that is not my world. You or anybody else is certainly entitled to reject anyone else's idea that either doesn't pertain to you or isn't relevant to your life. It's not much different than YKINMK-Your Kink Is Not My Kink. He was expressing his opinion, a personal opinion, so I didn't read his post the same way you did. He states, "I can't think of" which is similar to IME-In My Experience, then "The very idea of love to me".... which is his idea or concept. quote: ORIGINAL: usememistress775 I can't think of a single type of love that doesn't involve sacrifice or the willingness to sacrifice. The very idea of love to me is a willingness to do for someone else.... What if he had framed it thusly: I can't think of a single type of love that doesn't involve re-prioritizing, or the willingness to shift my priorities for the sake of my loved one's happiness, in addition to my own happiness. Would you or anybody else have taken exception to this in all honesty? Nobody's saying one MUST do this or must prove one's love in such a manner. As you've mentioned before, we all have our own love languages. The willingness to sacrifice happens to be one of his, and from what you've expressed below, it is not out of the question for you either, although it may not be your preferred method. quote: ORIGINAL: NookieNotes Yes, I am willing to sacrifice for many I love. There are those I love, though, that I will not sacrifice for. That was the whole starting point, though, wasn't it. Not that making sacrifices is unilaterally mandatory in every love relationship, but that when you deeply love or are filled with compassion (altruistic love), you are willing to put someone else before yourself in that moment of their perceived need(s). You re-prioritize over love of self for love of another. Selflessness is a form of sacrifice, IMO -- although there appear to be many who would disagree. quote: ORIGINAL: NookieNotes quote: ORIGINAL: FieryOpal I have heard others say that once they found (or have already found) their ideal partner, nothing would feel like they had to compromise in order to be with the one they love, so gladdened are their hearts, spirit and soul. And I understand this sentiment. It's mostly true, but, to me, it is still compromise. I have not seen this in this thread, as we've been talking about sacrifice... unless I missed it. And that is a HUGE degree of difference in my world. Not here, I'm referring to http://www.collarchat.com/m_4623724/tm.htm (What are you willing to compromise ? - 1/21/2014) http://www.collarchat.com/m_4740019/tm.htm (What Compromises Are Acceptable in Your D/s Relationship Dynamic? - 10/10/2014) Which segues into when I had started out initially getting hung up on the word "compromise" in the earlier discussion topic, as described below, but then later had a change of heart. quote: ORIGINAL: satanscharmer FR- I see the term 'compromise' thrown out a few times and the funny thing is, that term to me is more negative than 'sacrifice'. To compromise, I think settling or trade-offs. I'm getting this so I'll settle for that. To sacrifice, it's not expecting anything in return. Eh, perceptions will be different. Sacrifice is not something I want someone to do for me but if they did, I'd only be grateful. Sacrifices and compromises aren't typically something someone is generally out looking for, but they happen. Sometimes small and insignificant, sometimes much larger, and sometimes not at all. Either way, they're not included in my definition of love. [Edited to correct acronym]

NookieNotes -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (2/2/2015 1:58:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FieryOpal He was expressing his opinion, a personal opinion, so I didn't read his post the same way you did. He states, "I can't think of" which is similar to IME-In My Experience, then "The very idea of love to me".... which is his idea or concept. Yes, and I responded like that, in curiosity, until he spent his time (on thread and in unsolicited private messages, after he flounced) trying to explain to me why I'm wrong, and how my relationship with my ex-husband is... shrugs I don't hold it against him, but I do think it was the wrong way to make a point... Something I'm guilty of, often enough. quote: quote: ORIGINAL: usememistress775 I can't think of a single type of love that doesn't involve sacrifice or the willingness to sacrifice. The very idea of love to me is a willingness to do for someone else.... What if he had framed it thusly: I can't think of a single type of love that doesn't involve re-prioritizing, or the willingness to shift my priorities for the sake of my loved one's happiness, in addition to my own happiness. Would you or anybody else have taken exception to this in all honesty? Nobody's saying one MUST do this or must prove one's love in such a manner. As you've mentioned before, we all have our own love languages. The willingness to sacrifice happens to be one of his, and from what you've expressed below, it is not out of the question for you either, although it may not be your preferred method. I agree. The point I'm making is that he also didn't accept that others of us had different definitions. He kept saying that we were just defining it wrong, and if we just looked, we would find sacrifice. That was not the intent of this thread. He made it that way. quote: quote: ORIGINAL: NookieNotes Yes, I am willing to sacrifice for many I love. There are those I love, though, that I will not sacrifice for. That was the whole starting point, though, wasn't it. Not that making sacrifices is unilaterally mandatory in every love relationship, but that when you deeply love or are filled with compassion (altruistic love), you are willing to put someone else before yourself in that moment of their perceived need(s). You re-prioritize over love of self for love of another. Selflessness is a form of sacrifice, IMO -- although there appear to be many who would disagree. No. The starting point was does love REQUIRE sacrifice. Not whether they often appear together in a life. I am perfectly happy to say that they have occurred together for me, but not that they MUST occur together for love to be real. quote: quote: ORIGINAL: NookieNotes quote: ORIGINAL: FieryOpal I have heard others say that once they found (or have already found) their ideal partner, nothing would feel like they had to compromise in order to be with the one they love, so gladdened are their hearts, spirit and soul. And I understand this sentiment. It's mostly true, but, to me, it is still compromise. I have not seen this in this thread, as we've been talking about sacrifice... unless I missed it. And that is a HUGE degree of difference in my world. Not here, I'm referring to http://www.collarchat.com/m_4623724/tm.htm (What are you willing to compromise ? - 1/21/2014) http://www.collarchat.com/m_4740019/tm.htm (What Compromises Are Acceptable in Your D/s Relationship Dynamic? - 10/10/2014) Which segues into when I had started out initially getting hung up on the word "compromise" in the earlier discussion topic, as described below, but then later had a change of heart. quote: ORIGINAL: satanscharmer FR- I see the term 'compromise' thrown out a few times and the funny thing is, that term to me is more negative than 'sacrifice'. To compromise, I think settling or trade-offs. I'm getting this so I'll settle for that. To sacrifice, it's not expecting anything in return. Eh, perceptions will be different. Sacrifice is not something I want someone to do for me but if they did, I'd only be grateful. Sacrifices and compromises aren't typically something someone is generally out looking for, but they happen. Sometimes small and insignificant, sometimes much larger, and sometimes not at all. Either way, they're not included in my definition of love. [Edited to correct acronym] Yeah, I get that. And that's just a different way of looking at the word. I don't knock that version, either. In fact, I've been known to say that I don't like compromise, I prefer give and take, which is a semantics play that I use to make a point, similar to above. But I use the word compromise, because it's something people understand. And understanding s critical to communication. I found the idea that love requires sacrifice fascinating, so asked others. I have no need to convince anyone. I'm just looking for experiences, not interested in changing minds. smiles

FieryOpal -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (2/3/2015 6:47:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NookieNotes Yes, and I responded like that, in curiosity, until he spent his time (on thread and in unsolicited private messages, after he flounced) trying to explain to me why I'm wrong, and how my relationship with my ex-husband is... --- The point I'm making is that he also didn't accept that others of us had different definitions. He kept saying that we were just defining it wrong, and if we just looked, we would find sacrifice. That was not the intent of this thread. He made it that way. I didn't read that other thread on the Poly forum, so I may be missing some gaps in info. However, if I were to highlight another's post, I would have given that poster a head's up by PM beforehand. But that's just me. [&:] quote: ORIGINAL: NookieNotes No. The starting point was does love REQUIRE sacrifice. Not whether they often appear together in a life. I am perfectly happy to say that they have occurred together for me, but not that they MUST occur together for love to be real. Just going by the inquote, I read this more as illustrative of what DOES happen in real life, not as what MUST happen. However, I will add this private thought. If I were with somebody who professed to love me, yet demonstrated an unwillingness to either compromise or make me his highest priority (along with his own children, because I would never ask anyone to choose me over his/her own children, or in caring for a family member who needed it, and likewise in return), I would be questioning whether we were both on the same page as to the depth & breadth of his "love" for me, or whether we were speaking the same love language.

cloudboy -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (2/3/2015 6:57:47 AM)
A better word than "sacrifice" might be "flexibility."

NookieNotes -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (2/3/2015 7:21:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FieryOpal quote: ORIGINAL: NookieNotes Yes, and I responded like that, in curiosity, until he spent his time (on thread and in unsolicited private messages, after he flounced) trying to explain to me why I'm wrong, and how my relationship with my ex-husband is... --- The point I'm making is that he also didn't accept that others of us had different definitions. He kept saying that we were just defining it wrong, and if we just looked, we would find sacrifice. That was not the intent of this thread. He made it that way. I didn't read that other thread on the Poly forum, so I may be missing some gaps in info. However, if I were to highlight another's post, I would have given that poster a head's up by PM beforehand. But that's just me. [&:] I get that. Yes. And will keep that in mind, if I do it again. But then, I wouldn't flounce, then follow someone to PM unsolicited, still trying to shove my rules down their throat and define their relationships for them grins That's just me. Flawed, but ultimately interested in the discussion itself, not a particular end result. quote: ORIGINAL: FieryOpal quote: ORIGINAL: NookieNotes No. The starting point was does love REQUIRE sacrifice. Not whether they often appear together in a life. I am perfectly happy to say that they have occurred together for me, but not that they MUST occur together for love to be real. Right. Going by the original quote, yes. As I said, it wasn't until the replies and his flouncing/PMs that I really considered him saying what the rest of us must feel or believe to be "true." Here are some examples where I see him trying to convince the rest of us that our definitions and viewpoints are wrong. Not different-and-yet-valid: quote: ORIGINAL: usememistress775 On a more cogent and serious note: just because you do not see them as sacrifices doesn't mean they are not. I disagree. If I do not view something as a sacrifice, then it isn't. If I feel happy, you telling me I'm not doesn't change that. quote: ORIGINAL: usememistress775 You can choose to love someone, but once you do you can never stop loving them completely. You? Or I? Using the general you (or the specific you) usually comes across as telling someone how THEY are, not explaining how I am. To me, it's indicative of a frame of mind. quote: ORIGINAL: usememistress775 I put this challenge to you Nookie, think of anything you love in any capacity be it person, pet, planet, country or inanimate object. Think of that entity and tell me if you are unwilling to sacrifice anything at all in order to (spend time with, improve the life of, enjoy the company of, make happy etc). I would like to know if you find anything you love that you can't see making even a small sacrifice for. Speaking to me, challenging MY view on my loves and relationships. quote: ORIGINAL: usememistress775 I cannot think of a way to express love that doesn't involve sacrifice. And every else brings up one sided love to use as a counterexample yet all it does is highlight that the person who does love will sacrifice for that love and the one not willing to sacrifice does not love the other person. So, if I am not willing to sacrifice for a love, I do not love. You see? Now, while I go out of my way to NOT put my thoughts and values on others, it was pointed out more than once that he was doing so, and he pretty much ignored those points and kept on trying to make his point. It doesn't matter to me. I'm just pointing it out to you, since you seem to be defending him. I'm not attacking. I have no interest in making him out to be a bad person or anything. Just that he was missing points that could have made the conversation more useful to him and others. quote: ORIGINAL: FieryOpal Just going by the inquote, I read this more as illustrative of what DOES happen in real life, not as what MUST happen. However, I will add this private thought. If I were with somebody who professed to love me, yet demonstrated an unwillingness to either compromise or make me his highest priority (along with his own children, because I would never ask anyone to choose me over his/her own children, or in caring for a family member who needed it, and likewise in return), I would be questioning whether we were both on the same page as to the depth & breadth of his "love" for me, or whether we were speaking the same love language. And that... To me, making someone a priority is not sacrifice. And that is where the waters get muddied. That's why I included the definition. Because you have used words from your world of sacrifice, equating it with the sacred, compromise, and priorities. None of those things fit my world or the definitions. To me, in my experience, your definition is too broad for a woman like myself, who has studied language, and uses words as specifically as possible. You're not wrong. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that for me, all of those things do not apply to sacrifice. They MAY apply to love, but love does not require them. It's really that simple to me.

crazyml -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (2/3/2015 11:46:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery ~FR~ quote: Does Love Require Sacrifice? This thread, despite the passionate positions, is just semantics. If you think what you're doing is sacrifice--then you're in the wrong relationship. Qft. Jesus... "sacrifice"... fuck that. if it felt as if I were making a big old sacrifice i'd be seriously reconsidering shit.

PeonForHer -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (2/3/2015 12:34:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml Jesus... "sacrifice"... fuck that. if it felt as if I were making a big old sacrifice i'd be seriously reconsidering shit. What, with a view to having a relationship with it?

ExiledTyrant -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (2/3/2015 4:40:36 PM)
~FR Sacrifice is coupled to a relationship by the 3 nail carrying martyrs... yep, you know them, everyone does, there is at least one every where. I sacrifice nothing, EVER! I choose to do or not to do. Loving someone compels my choices to encompass and surrender more time, money, build my future with her in it, wotever, towards them, but it is still my choice. In a relationship my compulsion to do more for her becomes more profound because I love her... but if I ever see that "what's in it for me" side of her or the "I gave up/sacrificed for you", all my compulsion dries up and the relationship circles the drain, because as much as I love someone, I love me more, and will never, for anyone, settle for misery. Jus sayin

Kirata -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (2/3/2015 4:55:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant Sacrifice is coupled to a relationship by the 3 nail carrying martyrs... there is at least one every where Presumably you're referring to people who speak English? quote: ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant I sacrifice nothing, EVER! I choose to do or not to do. Loving someone compels my choices to encompass and surrender more time, money, build my future with her in it, wotever, towards them, but it is still my choice... sacrifice n - the surrender or destruction of something prized or desirable for the sake of something considered as having a higher or more pressing claim. v - to surrender or give up, or permit injury or disadvantage to, for the sake of something else. K.

satanscharmer -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (2/3/2015 5:08:14 PM)
quote: but if I ever see that "what's in it for me" side of her or the "I gave up/sacrificed for you", all my compulsion dries up and the relationship circles the drain As much as people may disagree about sacrificing, compromising, or whatever one wants to call it, I believe most people can agree with the above. Nobody, that I know at least, wants to be given something only for it to be thrown back into their face.

FieryOpal -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (2/3/2015 9:15:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: satanscharmer quote: ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant but if I ever see that "what's in it for me" side of her or the "I gave up/sacrificed for you", all my compulsion dries up and the relationship circles the drain As much as people may disagree about sacrificing, compromising, or whatever one wants to call it, I believe most people can agree with the above. Nobody, that I know at least, wants to be given something only for it to be thrown back into their face. Absolutely, nobody wants to have a guilt trip laid upon them. Those of us who are guiltless deserve better than that. A selfish sacrifice, one done to manipulate others, is no sacrifice. Those who are guilty of not upholding their end of the deal (whatever that was supposed to be), abandoning others in time of need, desertion or dereliction of duty, and/or alienation of affection,... don't have a strong enough ethical conscience anyway. Therefore, it's a moot point. Speaking in generalities, however, I detect a form of cognitive dissonance, which I find perplexing. Because on the other hand, to refuse to recognize or to disavow another's willing and selfless sacrifice, is to dishonor it. I know I have made parallel comparisons to "submission." I have also heard (not here) some people, mostly of a Dominant disposition, mock the idea of submission being a gift, and then get caught up in what the definition of a "gift" means. If one were to substitute the word "sacrifice" for "submission,' not insofar as love is concerned, but in terms of being a willingly given gift or offering, is there a Dominant in the house who would say to a submissive (as supplicant, devotée), I don't want your gift of submission because you want to know what's in it for me or I gave up my submission for you? Simply food for thought. [sm=2cents.gif]

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