FieryOpal
Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
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quote:
ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
quote:
ORIGINAL: FieryOpal
Speaking in generalities, however, I detect a form of cognitive dissonance, which I find perplexing.
Because on the other hand, to refuse to recognize or to disavow another's willing and selfless sacrifice, is to dishonor it.
Well, now you are getting into personal viewpoints and communication issues.
<snip>
But, there have been times he did go out of his way for me, and I did not realize. Was it sacrifice? I don't think so. He may have. I did not acknowledge it at the time, and because of choices I made, it did become a discussion, and I did, once I understood.
...
Which I thought was the purpose of this discussion, to delve into how others including yourself view this topic. It's a highly subjective one, then the romantic nature of love makes it more loaded, almost impossible to separate one's personal feelings and experiences.
There is a difference between offering a (hopefully) convincing (friendly) argument or taking a stance on its own merits and negating the opinions of others (which I trust I haven't come across in such a manner). Feelings are feelings, worthy of being heard and not being invalidated.
I think (presumably) we've all gone out of the way for somebody else, and it's always nice to have this acknowledged and appreciated. I see this more as a pattern of behavior, with the individual who either consistently is unwilling to do this and/or else consistently expects others to go out of their way without appreciating it. Then there are those who play the martyrdom card who have given self-sacrifice a bad name, without a doubt. So granted, there are both sides to these extremes.
quote:
ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
If someone is unwilling to view things through my eyes, they will not be in a relationship with me. Period.
Exactly.
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ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
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ORIGINAL: FieryOpal
I know I have made parallel comparisons to "submission." I have also heard (not here) some people, mostly of a Dominant disposition, mock the idea of submission being a gift, and then get caught up in what the definition of a "gift" means.
If one were to substitute the word "sacrifice" for "submission,' not insofar as love is concerned, but in terms of being a willingly given gift or offering,
is there a Dominant in the house who would say to a submissive (as supplicant, devotée), I don't want your gift of submission because you want to know what's in it for me or I gave up my submission for you?
I am a dominant who does NOT see submission as a gift. Precisely because of the definition of gift.
Submission is FAR more important to me than any gift could be.
But yes, if someone came at me offering submission, and asking what was in it for them, I would know they were not the submissive for me, because they would obviously be of a different mindset than I. Rushing things, not understanding the natural flow of give-and-take that my relationships have, and etc.
I may even use very similar words.
Because by the time they offer their submission, they should be fully cognizant of what is in it for them, and how to communicate their needs to and with me. They will know, very clearly, what I give them and what I ask of them.
I do see submission as a gift, just as I see Dominance as a gift.
AND I also whole-heartedly agree that 'Submission is FAR more important to me than any gift could be.' in the context of that which should be treasured and continuously esteemed by both parties, this power exchange of submission and Dominance alike.
I should have been more specific, that when negotiating (another dirty word for some, and one I tend to try to avoid as well!) or laying one's cards on the table, both parties need to be clear about what's in it for them as part of full disclosure, deciding upon limits, what level of protocol feels comfortable for both, etc. Naturally, one must enter into interpersonal relationships with eyes of consensuality wide open.
If I may amend, sans the understandably turning-off attitude in delivery (excuse me, ExiledTyrant, since I used your words originally as a springboard, and you were mature enough to see that I wasn't doing so in a critical vein and didn't take it personally), which I shall attribute to the late hour in which I'd posted. 
Generically, then would a Dominant turn down an otherwise compatible submissive because s/he has his or her own standards of what to expect out of the D/s relationship dynamic or voices concerns prior to giving up his or her submission? Leaving "love" and "sacrifice" out of it for a moment, since neither may be at issue at the time, and assuming that up until then, you both appeared to be of the same mindset or suitable for one another.
Perhaps not the best correlation possible when substituting words, other than it's a two-way street when exchanging submission for Dominance, and Dominance for submission.
quote:
ORIGINAL: satanscharmer
quote:
ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
So if I do not recognize the sacrifice, and the other person sees it as such, whether communicated or not, it is an issue.
Yes, I agree with this.
It is quite possible that I perceived FieryOpal's post incorrectly, which led me to misinterpreting your response.
I interpreted her post to mean something along the lines of Person A and Person B both did not acknowledge what was done as a sacrifice, however Person C comes in and mentions a sacrifice that Person A made but Person B refuses to accept it as such, "they didn't sacrifice nothing for me".
Not that Person C has any barring on the relationship, but I view Person C much like this thread. That's where my point of the narrator came from. A random third party making an observation.
Never in my relationships have I ever viewed my choices as sacrifices or giving up something, but if a conversation such as this one comes up, I can possibly look back and state that I have possibly sacrificed something or someone has sacrificed something for me. If that makes me a narcissistic asshole, then so be it (no, I do not believe you have implied that at all). If a Person C commented on a sacrifice someone made for me, my response would be "Yes, they did give up a lot for me". I would acknowledge it, otherwise I'd feel as though I'd be down playing this great thing someone did for me as if I were expecting it. I don't expect much from others so if someone does something, such as what I'd consider a sacrifice, I take notice and express my extreme gratitude, which isn't typically expected either.
I don't believe you did misinterpret anything. It's just about comparing an orange with a tangerine and coming up with a tangelo, instead of making comparisons between an orange and an apple, with no such hybridization being possible (yet, for mass consumption). With the latter, there will remain a distinct polarization of thought -- which there's nothing wrong with having, I should add.
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Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau
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RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? - 
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