quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins
it still stands that sometimes you give people a chance, and it still stands that some people need to grow the fuck up, and take responsibility for being cunts instead of blaming other people for being hurt.

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ORIGINAL: LiveSpark
Exactly. It's one thing if the person says that right the second the two meet but what if the person has already fallen. It's not so easy to just turn emotions off so I stand by what I said.

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ORIGINAL: needlesandpins
seriously, you need to do some research. respect, admiration, sex, and lust have nothing to do with loving a person. you can have all those things with a person, and not love them one bit. you can also love someone deeply, but have non of those things within that relationship either. you can deny that it's hormonal all you like, but unfortunately you are no different to the rest of us. All the little things that you like about him are what trigger those hormonal releases, whether you like the idea, or not. it's science. if it wasn't that way, you'd be on the sociopath scale.

needles

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ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12
<snip>
Love isn't a lie, it isn't just a chemical rush - love is what you feel when you think someone is amazing.

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ORIGINAL: sexyred1

You are being overly simplistic.

You can think someone is amazing and not love them or be in love with them.

Here's a real life example: I was with my ex for 12 years on and off. We all know from my posts that he was a lying, bad communicating asshole who really hurt me. But we had earth shattering sex and a strong BDSM bond.

During these 12 years, I dated a lot, to find someone better suited for me. One guy I met, we clicked and we ended up dating for 5 years.

Why didn't I leave the asshole? Because as amazing and perfect the nice guy was in every way, we had ZERO chemistry. He had it for me, but the sex was AWFUL. After he asked me to MARRY him in 2009, I obviously had to end it. I felt like crap since he deserved me, the ex didn't and yet, yet, I couldn't change the chemical reaction I felt with one and not the other.

So when you accuse people of not understanding love, take a step back and realize others experiences are different than yours and love does involve hormones, chemistry, etc. it's not platonic, unless that is acceptable to you.

If you only go by admiration and respect and no chemistry our lives would be far simpler, but it is not.

I will say that it's great you have a great guy in your life, but sometimes you are so happy that you can view things bathed in rose colored light. Just as being overly cynical can sometimes view things through another lens.

Since I have mostly had good love experiences, I feel able to view this topic honestly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

You are being overly simplistic.

You can think someone is amazing and not love them or be in love with them.

Here's a real life example: I was with my ex for 12 years on and off. We all know from my posts that he was a lying, bad communicating asshole who really hurt me. But we had earth shattering sex and a strong BDSM bond.

During these 12 years, I dated a lot, to find someone better suited for me. One guy I met, we clicked and we ended up dating for 5 years.

Why didn't I leave the asshole? Because as amazing and perfect the nice guy was in every way, we had ZERO chemistry. He had it for me, but the sex was AWFUL. After he asked me to MARRY him in 2009, I obviously had to end it. I felt like crap since he deserved me, the ex didn't and yet, yet, I couldn't change the chemical reaction I felt with one and not the other.

So when you accuse people of not understanding love, take a step back and realize others experiences are different than yours and love does involve hormones, chemistry, etc. it's not platonic, unless that is acceptable to you.

If you only go by admiration and respect and no chemistry our lives would be far simpler, but it is not.

quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins
seriously, you need to do some research. respect, admiration, sex, and lust have nothing to do with loving a person. you can have all those things with a person, and not love them one bit. you can also love someone deeply, but have non of those things within that relationship either. you can deny that it's hormonal all you like, but unfortunately you are no different to the rest of us. All the little things that you like about him are what trigger those hormonal releases, whether you like the idea, or not. it's science. if it wasn't that way, you'd be on the sociopath scale.

quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12
I'm somewhere between irritated by your insistence on the unproven science you demand I adhere to, and sympathy because no-one who had a good experience of love would frame it in this way. And I have had a good experience of love, finally, so I feel a bit guilty for saying that. I'm not trying to rub it in your face, it's just that I think you don't get what love really is.

quote:

Allow me to elaborate; when, 2 weeks into my cycle, I snap at everyone, demand chocolate and become half irritable and half weepy - that is hormones. When I see an act of kindness on TV and feel like crying, that is hormones.

quote:

When my husband texts me to tell me that he's checked the post box so I don't have to, because he knows it hurts my hand, that isn't hormones, it's love. When I ask him what his myers briggs personality type is, so I can understand him better, and then I catch him reading 16 pages about mine and feel surprised once again that my partner is interested in me, that's not hormones, it's love. I don't love him because of some chemical combination or hormonal reaction to his scent or his height or his dominance. I love him because he's a kind person who treats me with love, respect, admiration, consideration, fascination, because he's a good person, with a good heart, who treats me so well it sometimes brings tears to my eyes.

quote:

You can talk about hormones all you like. If you want to believe that love has nothing to do with respect or admiration, that's your right. But I choke at the thought of it. *Your* love might have nothing to do with respect or admiration, but my love most certainly does have.

quote:

If you don't get that, I'm not flaming you, but I can only think that you just don't understand. Love isn't a lie, it isn't just a chemical rush - love is what you feel when you think someone is amazing.

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ORIGINAL: FieryOpal
@needles, I have to respect and admire the man I love. Once the respect and admiration are gone, I can still love and care about him, but I would no longer be in love with him.
He must respect and adore me and show me this in a tangible fashion, each and every day.
You deserve the same. We all do -- those of us who have such a great capacity for giving love need to be passionately receptive to receiving it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
So when you accuse people of not understanding love, take a step back and realize others experiences are different than yours and love does involve hormones, chemistry, etc. it's not platonic, unless that is acceptable to you.

If you only go by admiration and respect and no chemistry our lives would be far simpler, but it is not.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
Since I have mostly had good love experiences, I feel able to view this topic honestly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

Exactly this, as sexyred said. Even when I was caught up in all the mind blowing and spine tingling kind of love, I realized it was all chemicals flowing through me. Post break up, I realized it was chemicals as well and that my body was trying to readjust. I think needles is just being practical. Did it take away from the experience or make it any less? No. But I realized a lot of it was chemically generated and I just needed my body to get back into the right flow with applied effort from myself. Also not all people require receiving love or sacrifice (completely seperate from each other) for a relationship. Giving it is enough for them. It's all too complicated and differential to get into but I can see someone who is extremely hot and want that same level of chemistry and never attain it. "Love" in itself kind of does its own thing as does chemistry and attraction. It's kind of like trying to figure out why D or s.

quote:

According to many experts, smiling may not only be an outward manifestation of a happy feeling. It may actually be able to cause a happy feeling. It's the exact opposite of how most people see the smile-happiness connection, but with a growing body of evidence supporting the effect, it seems there may be something to it.

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ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12

quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins
seriously, you need to do some research. respect, admiration, sex, and lust have nothing to do with loving a person. you can have all those things with a person, and not love them one bit. you can also love someone deeply, but have non of those things within that relationship either. you can deny that it's hormonal all you like, but unfortunately you are no different to the rest of us. All the little things that you like about him are what trigger those hormonal releases, whether you like the idea, or not. it's science. if it wasn't that way, you'd be on the sociopath scale.

needles

You're missing my point entirely. I debated whether to reply to you and how to reply. If I was being honest, either kindly or brutally, I would say you must have had some bad experiences in love, that you have a cynical view of love, that you frame love as a biological, hormonal response because it fits into the narratives of painful relationships where you were hurt but felt unable to extricate yourself from the pain they caused you. I'm somewhere between irritated by your insistence on the unproven science you demand I adhere to, and sympathy because no-one who had a good experience of love would frame it in this way. And I have had a good experience of love, finally, so I feel a bit guilty for saying that. I'm not trying to rub it in your face, it's just that I think you don't get what love really is.

Allow me to elaborate; when, 2 weeks into my cycle, I snap at everyone, demand chocolate and become half irritable and half weepy - that is hormones. When I see an act of kindness on TV and feel like crying, that is hormones. When my husband texts me to tell me that he's checked the post box so I don't have to, because he knows it hurts my hand, that isn't hormones, it's love. When I ask him what his myers briggs personality type is, so I can understand him better, and then I catch him reading 16 pages about mine and feel surprised once again that my partner is interested in me, that's not hormones, it's love. I don't love him because of some chemical combination or hormonal reaction to his scent or his height or his dominance. I love him because he's a kind person who treats me with love, respect, admiration, consideration, fascination, because he's a good person, with a good heart, who treats me so well it sometimes brings tears to my eyes. Because when I think about all the things he does to make me happy and to make my life better, I think that I must have done something right in another life.

You can talk about hormones all you like. If you want to believe that love has nothing to do with respect or admiration, that's your right. But I choke at the thought of it. *Your* love might have nothing to do with respect or admiration, but my love most certainly does have.

If you don't get that, I'm not flaming you, but I can only think that you just don't understand. Love isn't a lie, it isn't just a chemical rush - love is what you feel when you think someone is amazing.

quote:

It's as silly as saying that feeling happy, depressed, angry, fearful isn't a chemical reaction. it just is.

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ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

Actually, it's hormones combined with personal experiences and reactions.

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ORIGINAL: LiveSpark

Really? So you've never encountered people who were on their best behaviour until they were secure in the relationship then let their true self show. Lucky you.

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ORIGINAL: LiveSpark

FR

Some years ago I met a man online. A few months later after much talk not only on the chat board with others but privately (email and phone) we met and I travelled to him. We clicked, or at least I thought we did, it was even better than expected and I fell hard. I thought he had too. A few months later I had a long weekend and suggested that I come down again. He was reluctant so I said never mind we'll wait til my vacation but he insisted. Everything was the complete opposite of the first time, he did everything he could to get me to leave, I suspect that he had decided he didn't want to explore a relationship but lacked the balls to just tell me so he had me come down so I would be the one to do it. Anyway after that visit we made plans for me to come down on my vacation but he kept picking fights. I finally had enough and ended it, whatever "it" was at that point but I was completely screwed up and yes heartbroken.

I did everything I could to get over him even staying away from the board where we both posted. Four or five years later I'm still not over him. I know that part of it is not knowing WHY he did what he did. I hate him for what he did I don't want him back but so help me I cannot completely get over him. I have no clue why but I swear it's true. I would love to stop feeling as I do but I have no idea how to do it apart from finding someone else but I find it hard to trust again. Believe me I know how ridiculous all this sounds and I'm at a loss as to why I find it so hard to get over him when I've gotten over men I've been with for a short time but that's exactly how I feel.

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ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: LiveSpark

FR

Some years ago I met a man online. A few months later after much talk not only on the chat board with others but privately (email and phone) we met and I travelled to him. We clicked, or at least I thought we did, it was even better than expected and I fell hard. I thought he had too. A few months later I had a long weekend and suggested that I come down again. He was reluctant so I said never mind we'll wait til my vacation but he insisted. Everything was the complete opposite of the first time, he did everything he could to get me to leave, I suspect that he had decided he didn't want to explore a relationship but lacked the balls to just tell me so he had me come down so I would be the one to do it. Anyway after that visit we made plans for me to come down on my vacation but he kept picking fights. I finally had enough and ended it, whatever "it" was at that point but I was completely screwed up and yes heartbroken.

I did everything I could to get over him even staying away from the board where we both posted. Four or five years later I'm still not over him. I know that part of it is not knowing WHY he did what he did. I hate him for what he did I don't want him back but so help me I cannot completely get over him. I have no clue why but I swear it's true. I would love to stop feeling as I do but I have no idea how to do it apart from finding someone else but I find it hard to trust again. Believe me I know how ridiculous all this sounds and I'm at a loss as to why I find it so hard to get over him when I've gotten over men I've been with for a short time but that's exactly how I feel.

When you talk about not knowing why, I think we can sum that up in one word as "closure".

I have experienced exactly what you describe but I have also experienced where the other person had a perception of me that was nowhere near accurate and that played with my head also. You know the: "How the hell did she arrive at that ?"

Sometimes, you just may be better off not knowing. I won't give you my most shining example here, publicly, but if you're interested, contact me and I will share.



Michael

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ORIGINAL: DesFIP

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ORIGINAL: LiveSpark

Really? So you've never encountered people who were on their best behaviour until they were secure in the relationship then let their true self show. Lucky you.

No, I haven't. I don't get into denial about things that trip my uh oh factor. I know that many people do actively live in denial, and don't listen to their gut.

I'm not one of them. And it isn't luck.

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ORIGINAL: DesFIP

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ORIGINAL: LiveSpark

Really? So you've never encountered people who were on their best behaviour until they were secure in the relationship then let their true self show. Lucky you.

No, I haven't. I don't get into denial about things that trip my uh oh factor. I know that many people do actively live in denial, and don't listen to their gut.

I'm not one of them. And it isn't luck.

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ORIGINAL: sexyred1

You can think someone is amazing and not love them or be in love with them.
....
If you only go by admiration and respect and no chemistry our lives would be far simpler, but it is not.

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ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

Is that not a form of self-sacrifice?