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RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 1/31/2015 8:18:54 AM   
mnottertail


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How do we know he had a broken leg? firing cross windows in a full car is gonna have more folks hurt. That didnt seem to happen.

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RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 1/31/2015 9:01:03 AM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Mike I am not exaggerating... here in St. Louis we have children that age shooting each other and at police on the street...can police stop that?

Butch

We can go round and round on this Butch....You say they feel the need to shoot first because they are being shot at....and I agree,to a point.
You seem to object to what I see as the cause of this though....the flooding of American cities with cheap readily available handguns.
Create a society where every other person doesn't feel the need to leave their house strapped and I'm assuming the police will not feel quite so targeted......leading,I would hope,to maybe that extra split second wherein the officer can ascertain whether or not the threat is legitimate....or just a kid of color playing cowboys and indians.


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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 1/31/2015 9:04:15 AM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

And a twelve year old boy with a toy gun.....
Shall I go on ?
You know as well as me that there are far too many unnecessary uses of deadly force....hell one is too many.

You will talk about anything but this case won't you?

If you are looking to discuss this case in a vacuum....than PM one of your fellow right wing loons.
Come here to an open forum and things start to get connected....just sayin

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 1/31/2015 9:24:22 AM   
lovmuffin


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quote:

slvemike4u
You seem to object to what I see as the cause of this though....the flooding of American cities with cheap readily available handguns.


I guess you haven't seen the price on handguns lately.

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RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 1/31/2015 9:25:15 AM   
kdsub


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quote:

the flooding of American cities with cheap readily available handguns.


No I agree with you...but without guns there would still be the same disregard of life but there is no doubt the proliferation of guns and the gun happy mentality contributes. The feeling of entitlement and power a gun gives in the economically depressed parts of our country is a blueprint for tragedy.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 1/31/2015 9:28:20 AM >


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RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 1/31/2015 9:26:25 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

PeonForHer... I believe there is a problem here in the US... there is no denying this....BUT...I believe it has nothing to do with the police and their procedures, at least in all but a few instances. I will bet the police procedures in the US differ little from say France or Germany.

The problem, I believe, is with an increasingly violent society. Guns...music...video games... the thug mentality is now pervasive in our country. Respect for authority and each other among the younger generation along with a reduction in parental supervision because of the necessity of both parents working has further increased pressure on police departments and society in general.

To me anyway, the fix is not with the targeted police but with society in general. Going after police will just increase crime as has happened in St. Louis after the protests. I have made suggestions in other threads on how I would do it but I believe this persecution of police just trying to do their duty under trying circumstances will not solve the problem.

Butch



Ramarley Graham's Family To Receive $3.9 Million From NYC For Police Shooting
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/30/ramarley-graham-million-nyc_n_6583430.html
NEW YORK (AP) — New York City agreed Friday to pay $3.9 million to the family of a black Bronx teenager shot to death by a white police officer in 2012.

The deal settled a federal lawsuit brought by the family of 18-year-old Ramarley Graham.

"This was a tragic case," said New York Law Department spokesman Nicholas Paolucci. "After evaluating all the facts, and consulting with key stakeholders such as the NYPD, it was determined that settling the matter was in the best interest of the city."

Attorney Royce Russell said the family will comment Monday.

Graham died after he was shot once in the chest in February 2012 in a tiny bathroom in the three-family home where he lived with his grandmother and other relatives.

Richard Haste, the officer who shot him, said he fired his weapon because he thought he was going to be shot. No weapons were found in the apartment.

Haste was indicted on manslaughter charges in the summer of 2012, but charges were dismissed by a judge who said prosecutors improperly instructed grand jurors to imply they should disregard testimony from police officers that they radioed Haste in advance to warn him that they thought Graham had a pistol. A second grand jury declined to re-indict the officer.

Manhattan federal prosecutors are conducting a civil rights investigation.

The Graham shooting has been cited during demonstrations after grand juries in Missouri and New York declined to indict police officers in the deaths last year of 18-year-old Michael Brown in the St. Louis suburb of Ferguson and 43-year-old Eric Garner on a Staten Island sidewalk after he was put in a chokehold when he was stopped on suspicion of selling loose, untaxed cigarettes. The deaths fueled a national conversation about policing and race.

The Graham deal adds to a series of settlements in high-profile civil rights claims against police, jail officers and the city under first-term Mayor Bill de Blasio.

His administration reached a $41 million settlement with the "Central Park Five," men wrongly convicted in the vicious 1989 rape and beating of a Central Park jogger; a $10 million pact with a Brooklyn man who spent 15 years in prison after being wrongfully convicted of killing a rabbi, and a $2.75 million settlement with the family of a city jail inmate who died after what his lawyers described as a beating in which jail officers kicked him in the head.

On Friday, word emerged of a $5 million settlement with the family of a man killed in 1986 after being mistaken for a mobster with the same name; prosecutors said the bad information came from two former police detectives later convicted of moonlighting as hit men for the mob.

Meanwhile, City Comptroller Scott Stringer's office has pursued a strategy of settling major civil rights claims before lawsuits are filed. They include a $6.4 million agreement with a man whose murder conviction was overturned after he spent 23 years in prison and a $2.25 million settlement with the family of a mentally ill former Marine who died after being left unattended for hours in a sweltering city jail cell.

Recently, Stringer said he would attempt to negotiate a settlement of a $75 million civil rights claim from Garner's family.



KD this is also the reality

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(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 1/31/2015 9:28:58 AM   
kdsub


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Yes it is

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 1/31/2015 10:03:47 AM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

How do we know he had a broken leg? firing cross windows in a full car is gonna have more folks hurt. That didnt seem to happen.
Jordan's leg was fractured during Monday's incident, (police chief Robert) White said. http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_27412773/denver-police-id-officers-fatal-shooting-unarmed-teen

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Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 1/31/2015 10:12:31 AM   
slvemike4u


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Lucy ,that mistaken identity case is real interesting.Seems the cops had access to the real targets address ,but the mobsters didn't want to pay extra for that information(guess the cops were on a piece by piece pay grade rather than just a monthly stipend) so the mobsters just went to the phone book....cheaper but not as accurate.
The other part of it that left the city on the hook was that they failed to fire one of the cops when he had previously been shown to have revealed information to organized crime figures...confidential information.
So the city had no leg to stand on if this would have went to trial

Both former detectives are currently serving long bids in the big house.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 1/31/2015 10:24:19 AM   
PeonForHer


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Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

Again I remind you of what I call the CA style of debate (because I first ran into it there) where they quote someone else and then deny responsibility because they were only informing people of what the other person said. Of course if it isn't challenged they will stand by it.


That 'CA style of debate' - when it's working properly - is just what intelligent people sometimes do when they're debating, Bama. It's done on the understanding, widely shared amongst intelligent people, that there could be *doubt* about a given story from a given side. Not, to emphasise this as clearly as I possibly can, that that side's given story is *wrong*, but that there could be *doubt* about it.

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RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 1/31/2015 10:35:14 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Lucy ,that mistaken identity case is real interesting.Seems the cops had access to the real targets address ,but the mobsters didn't want to pay extra for that information(guess the cops were on a piece by piece pay grade rather than just a monthly stipend) so the mobsters just went to the phone book....cheaper but not as accurate.
The other part of it that left the city on the hook was that they failed to fire one of the cops when he had previously been shown to have revealed information to organized crime figures...confidential information.
So the city had no leg to stand on if this would have went to trial

Both former detectives are currently serving long bids in the big house.



Thanks Mike, IM actually following up on many of the stories, its saturday, work can wait.
I have like 60 brazillion tabs open right now

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(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 1/31/2015 11:13:55 AM   
slvemike4u


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Lol,no worries,I had just read the settlement story in todays Times...That and being from New York,I have sort of watched this thing unfold over the last few years.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 1/31/2015 11:27:36 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

Again I remind you of what I call the CA style of debate (because I first ran into it there) where they quote someone else and then deny responsibility because they were only informing people of what the other person said. Of course if it isn't challenged they will stand by it.


That 'CA style of debate' - when it's working properly - is just what intelligent people sometimes do when they're debating, Bama. It's done on the understanding, widely shared amongst intelligent people, that there could be *doubt* about a given story from a given side. Not, to emphasise this as clearly as I possibly can, that that side's given story is *wrong*, but that there could be *doubt* about it.

Then I have never seen it done properly, and only by people who want to state a position but who don't have the guts to stand by it.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 1/31/2015 11:31:05 AM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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FR

Did anyone know that the perfect little angel had

A had her drivers license revoked
and
B had a resisting arrest citation against her from an incident 3 weeks earlier

This could explain her panicking and trying to run down the officers.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 1/31/2015 11:52:49 AM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
IM actually following up on many of the stories, its saturday, work can wait.
I have like 60 brazillion tabs open right now



And, every one of them is going to be to a story the media chose to cover, for one reason or another. It's funny how rarely the story about T-Ray shooting Lil' Budda actually gets written up in the paper.

But hey, if you come across something that definitively explains how somebody using a car as a weapon can be considered "unarmed," please post that.

Have a lovely Saturday!

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Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 1/31/2015 12:19:36 PM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
IM actually following up on many of the stories, its saturday, work can wait.
I have like 60 brazillion tabs open right now



And, every one of them is going to be to a story the media chose to cover, for one reason or another. It's funny how rarely the story about T-Ray shooting Lil' Budda actually gets written up in the paper.

But hey, if you come across something that definitively explains how somebody using a car as a weapon can be considered "unarmed," please post that.

Have a lovely Saturday!

I havent commented on the right or wrong of this case, I certainly havent tried to excuse the actions of the woman or the cops....
maybe you missed that. Or ignored it


LOL yes its the way that some of us get information about things that happen around the world, that we missed because we werent actually there.
Until they build transporters with time travel, you and I will get most of our information from places that put it out....all full of opinion.
How are you going to change that?




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Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 1/31/2015 12:45:59 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

LOL yes its the way that some of us get information about things that happen around the world, that we missed because we werent actually there.
Until they build transporters with time travel, you and I will get most of our information from places that put it out....all full of opinion.
How are you going to change that?




Change to the system is more than I have time for, Lucy. First, change your relationship with it, and your understanding of it's relationship with you.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 1/31/2015 1:13:53 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Then I have never seen it done properly, and only by people who want to state a position but who don't have the guts to stand by it.


OK, then, Bama. The next time you state the position of the police, and retail their version of events as they give it re any contentious incident, the rest of us should just assume that as far as you're concerned, what the police have said is *exactly* what has happened. Because the police are never bent and never lie, on account of they're the police, and police are just that way by nature. God made them that way. Fair enough. Jesus.

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Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 1/31/2015 1:27:48 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Then I have never seen it done properly, and only by people who want to state a position but who don't have the guts to stand by it.


OK, then, Bama. The next time you state the position of the police, and retail their version of events as they give it re any contentious incident, the rest of us should just assume that as far as you're concerned, what the police have said is *exactly* what has happened. Because the police are never bent and never lie, on account of they're the police, and police are just that way by nature. God made them that way. Fair enough. Jesus.

I make it clear what parts I accept, I never hide behind such things as post 2 accusing the entire police position as a lie and then pretend I am not taking sides. And I virtually always leave a statement like "unless more information comes out" . If you could read you could tell the difference between my this happened statements and my police say statements.
In this case the cops story has to be pretty accurate. It is know that they got a call on the car. It is know that the car was stolen. It is known that she had resisted arrest just 3 weeks earlier over speeding and driving with out a license. It is known that her license had been revoked. It is know that they were uniformed cops so garbage that one paper tried to put in about not being identified is just that. It is know that one officer has a broken leg either from the car hitting him or (they now say) ducking the car.
As for your proclamation that I think cops can do no wrong numerous anti cop types told me that was my position on the Wilson case because I said to wait for all the information to come in. Since you are threatening to do what you already do I am not worried. Now can we get back to the subject or are you so short of anything to say on subject that you want to talk about anything else, anything at all.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 1/31/2015 3:04:20 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

I make it clear what parts I accept, I never hide behind such things as post 2 accusing the entire police position as a lie and then pretend I am not taking sides. And I virtually always leave a statement like "unless more information comes out" .


Nobody has done that, Bama. I wish you'd stop trying to build this straw man - there just isn't enough straw for it.

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Profile   Post #: 120
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