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RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 1/31/2015 6:23:48 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

I make it clear what parts I accept, I never hide behind such things as post 2 accusing the entire police position as a lie and then pretend I am not taking sides. And I virtually always leave a statement like "unless more information comes out" .


Nobody has done that, Bama. I wish you'd stop trying to build this straw man - there just isn't enough straw for it.

A Then you don't pay attention
B Look at the link I gave at the outset of this thread, you will see that it includes statements by people that thought the cops were wrong.
And look at the Ferguson thread again, when I wouldn't condemn Wilson from the outset I was accused of automatically defending the cop.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 2/1/2015 7:24:43 AM   
BamaD


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Yesterday I ill and wasn't clear in what I was trying to say.
When I post, in the example Peon used, what the police reported I make no bones about the fact
that I am advocating a position. I don't post information on one side or the other of a thread and
then pretend I am not taking sides. If you notice in cases like this while my original statement
made it clear were I stood the link I posted was not pro cop, in fact it made a point of treating absurd
comments as if they were reasonable. (why didn't they just use a stun gun or rubber bullets). The style
of debate that Peon fixated on is advocating a position while pretending to be neutral. It is the fake neutrality I object to.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 2/1/2015 8:16:56 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
The style
of debate that Peon fixated on is advocating a position while pretending to be neutral. It is the fake neutrality I object to.


No, it isn't, Bama. It doesn't matter how often you say it.

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Profile   Post #: 123
RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 2/1/2015 8:24:13 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
The style
of debate that Peon fixated on is advocating a position while pretending to be neutral. It is the fake neutrality I object to.


No, it isn't, Bama. It doesn't matter how often you say it.

Yes it is, it doesn't matter how often you deny it. You should consider the possibility that I have a better idea of what I am thinking than you do.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 2/1/2015 8:29:00 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
You should consider the possibility that I have a better idea of what I am thinking than you do.


Er ... likewise.

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Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 2/1/2015 8:32:18 AM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		Then You should consider the possibility that peon has a better idea of what he is thinking than you do.
NO matter how hard you try to say he is advocating something, ...it seems its only YOUR thoughts that make it your reality`


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(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 2/1/2015 8:41:16 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
You should consider the possibility that I have a better idea of what I am thinking than you do.


Er ... likewise.

I don't tell you what you are thinking.
Maybe we should get back to the subject rather than pretending that I am the subject.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 2/1/2015 8:43:14 AM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 2/1/2015 9:11:51 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
You should consider the possibility that I have a better idea of what I am thinking than you do.


Er ... likewise.

You should note that I have not said that you have used the hypocritical method yourself. I realize that some people may even do this without understand that they are taking a position. If someone says they are neutral while providing information from both sides they are, if they only provide information from one side they aren't no matter how fair and balanced they tell themselves they are.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 2/1/2015 9:24:47 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

If someone says they are neutral while providing information from both sides they are, if they only provide information from one side they aren't no matter how fair and balanced they tell themselves they are.


In the context of a debate with others, they can be being balanced. Sometimes this is called 'playing devil's advocate' (though that tends to describe situations where most people agree and just one person puts an opposing view).

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Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 2/1/2015 11:25:39 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

If someone says they are neutral while providing information from both sides they are, if they only provide information from one side they aren't no matter how fair and balanced they tell themselves they are.


In the context of a debate with others, they can be being balanced. Sometimes this is called 'playing devil's advocate' (though that tends to describe situations where most people agree and just one person puts an opposing view).

Playing the devils advocate is one thing showing only one side and claiming to be neutral is another. Clearly we are not going to agree on this so why not get back to the subject? I think that when you try to run down cops you are taking your chances of being killed. I have seen numerous articles on other shootings where they had the gall to say the person with the car is unarmed. A cop with a handgun is "outgunned" by a person with the car.
The "witness" who supposedly brings the cops word into question was in what she almost had to know was a stolen, she would have known it didn't belong to anyone in the car. For her to say they weren't doing anything wrong impeaches everything else she had to say. They want a special prosecutor when (due to the injured cop) there is a pretty clear case of self defense. I think this is due to the hysteria from the (incorrect) believe of wrongdoing in the Brown case, and the clear miscarriage of justice in the Gardner case. The mother is demanding a 2nd autopsy. Why? Not to determine how she died, that is obvious. Not to see if there is any evidence of wrong doing. But by her own words to see how much damage was done.
Add to this the girls history including resisting arrest just three weeks earlier and she was driving with an expired license. These things by no means prove anything about the situation but it does shed light on her contempt for the law.
There will have to be some pretty drastic new information to change what is now a clear cut case of self defense.
The only problem the cops may run into is if nitpickers in IA decide that they could have run somewhere.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 2/1/2015 1:08:07 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

Playing the devils advocate is one thing showing only one side and claiming to be neutral is another. Clearly we are not going to agree on this so why not get back to the subject?


I take the view that there is no 'neutral' - the best you can do is canvass different opinions. Hence my position on the relevant posts that you've seen as 'one-sided'. As for the subject: no - I reckon I'll wait till more about it comes out. Still, others might want to chime in; if so, good for them.

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Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 2/1/2015 1:40:04 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

Playing the devils advocate is one thing showing only one side and claiming to be neutral is another. Clearly we are not going to agree on this so why not get back to the subject?


I take the view that there is no 'neutral' - the best you can do is canvass different opinions. Hence my position on the relevant posts that you've seen as 'one-sided'. As for the subject: no - I reckon I'll wait till more about it comes out. Still, others might want to chime in; if so, good for them.

I guess you missed the part where I said I wasn't accused you of pretending to be neutral.


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 2/1/2015 1:48:28 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I guess you missed the part where I said I wasn't accused you of pretending to be neutral.



I was probably unconscious or possibly even dead at that point, admittedly.

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Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 2/1/2015 2:05:58 PM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I guess you missed the part where I said I wasn't accused you of pretending to be neutral.



I was probably unconscious or possibly even dead at that point, admittedly.

Good to see you have gotten better.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 2/1/2015 2:20:53 PM   
PeonForHer


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Status: offline 		Not bad.

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Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 2/7/2015 9:10:04 PM   
cloudboy


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It helps to have a video of what happened to cross examine witness testimony.

For example:

http://news.yahoo.com/video/alleged-police-beating-caught-tape-013739615.html

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Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 2/7/2015 10:22:01 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


It helps to have a video of what happened to cross examine witness testimony.

For example:

http://news.yahoo.com/video/alleged-police-beating-caught-tape-013739615.html

So, as is your standard MO, you jump to a new case, pretending it somehow has bearing on the one being discussed.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 2/7/2015 10:23:24 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 2/8/2015 6:28:07 AM   
cloudboy


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It is called making a side point. Why do you have a problem with it?

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Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 2/8/2015 8:26:21 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


It is called making a side point. Why do you have a problem with it?

It is called attempted derailment.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Another cop shooting of "unarmed" teen. - 2/8/2015 3:56:35 PM   
cloudboy


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Derailment of what?

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Profile   Post #: 140
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