Those awful far-right groups

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Aylee -> Those awful far-right groups (2/6/2015 9:02:28 PM)
Police in swoop on 45 more men over child sex grooming: 'Milestone' operation sees dozens of Asian suspects charged with rape, sexual assault and trafficking quote: In a separate case, 25 men from Halifax, West Yorkshire, were charged with a number of historic and child-related sex offences. Almost all of the men in both cases are from Asian backgrounds, prompting police leading one of the cases to warn that far-Right groups may use the issue to stir up racial tension. Because "racial tension" is just as bad as rape, sexual assault, and trafficking? What is so wrong with people getting upset over this? Sounds like its about time for the far-right, the right, the center, the liberals and anyone else that has some basic standards to get upset.

DaNewAgeViking -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/7/2015 12:25:37 AM)
No, Aylee, you don't get it: the Radical Right simply wants any excuse to stir up bigotry and hatred. It's not a question of them having 'standards': their 'standards' were clearly expressed in the Holocaust. What's needed is to recognize Rightism as a pathology, and outlaw it. [sm=blasted.gif]

crazyml -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/7/2015 12:34:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee Police in swoop on 45 more men over child sex grooming: 'Milestone' operation sees dozens of Asian suspects charged with rape, sexual assault and trafficking quote: In a separate case, 25 men from Halifax, West Yorkshire, were charged with a number of historic and child-related sex offences. Almost all of the men in both cases are from Asian backgrounds, prompting police leading one of the cases to warn that far-Right groups may use the issue to stir up racial tension. Because "racial tension" is just as bad as rape, sexual assault, and trafficking? I am at a total loss as to how you could infer that there was any comparison made between "racial tension" and rape. Is there another part of the article you're quoting that suggests this? As it stands the quote reads that someone warned that far-right groups (which have very strong associations with racism) may use the issue to stir up racial tension. quote: What is so wrong with people getting upset over this? Sounds like its about time for the far-right, the right, the center, the liberals and anyone else that has some basic standards to get upset. I don't think there is anything wrong with people getting upset over this, although I cannot see how you might have come to the conclusion that anyone was saying that it is. The concern expressed was that racist organisations might seize on this to spread racial hate. I'm guessing there must be more in the article than you've quoted because as it stands you seem to have imagined a number of things that simply aren't present. And as for the "those awful far right groups".... I am guessing that you don't understand what "far right group" implies... we're not talking about supporters of Ayn Rand here... we're talking about Nazis and racists. So... yeah, as groups they do tend to be "pretty awful"..

bounty44 -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/7/2015 1:20:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaNewAgeViking No, Aylee, you don't get it: the Radical Right simply wants any excuse to stir up bigotry and hatred. It's not a question of them having 'standards': their 'standards' were clearly expressed in the Holocaust. What's needed is to recognize Rightism as a pathology, and outlaw it. [sm=blasted.gif] I barely know where to begin here: a quote by hitler: "We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." Hitler was named "Man of the Year" in 1938 by Time Magazine. They noted Hitler's anti-capitalistic economic policies: some of the tenets of the National Socialist German Workers Party Platform: "We demand that the State shall make it its primary duty to provide a livelihood for its citizens. "We demand the nationalization of all businesses which have been formed into corporations (trusts). "We demand profit-sharing in large industrial enterprises. "We demand the extensive development of insurance for old age. "We demand the creation and maintenance of a healthy middle class, the immediate communalizing of big department stores, "The State must consider a thorough reconstruction of our national system of education "The State must ensure that the nation's health standards… in short: "To put the whole of this programme into effect, we demand the creation of a strong central state power for the Reich; the unconditional authority of the political central Parliament over the entire Reich and its organizations; and the formation of Corporations based on estate and occupation for the purpose of carrying out the general legislation passed by the Reich in the various German states." hitler on gun control: "The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms." hitler and abortion: When the Nazis came to power in 1933 one of the first acts Hitler did was to legalize abortion. By 1935 Germany with 65 million people was the place where over 500,000 abortions were being performed each year. fascism is a form of totalitarianism where private property doesn't really exist and the power is concentrated in corporations owned and operated by the state. any of those things sound familiar?? and in case you miss the irony of your "holocaust" point. there is nothing inherently "right" about bigotry, in fact, conservatives and libertarian types are primarily color blind when it comes to race and ethnicity, as opposed to leftists who see pretty everything through that particular prism---and um---its the left who were then and are today, the anti-Semitic crowd. Nazism is a leftists wet dream.

crazyml -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/7/2015 2:25:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 and in case you miss the irony of your "holocaust" point. there is nothing inherently "right" about bigotry, in fact, conservatives and libertarian types are primarily color blind when it comes to race and ethnicity, as opposed to leftists who see pretty everything through that particular prism---and um---its the left who were then and are today, the anti-Semitic crowd. Nazism is a leftists wet dream. I barely know where to begin here. The term far-right is distinct from the radical right. The term "radical right" is strongly associated with conservatism and libertarianism while the term "far right" is used to describe groups more associated with racism and hate. It is a pretty stupid and clumsy lie to assert that the Nazi's were "leftist", they banned socialist and communist groups. It is also pretty stupid to assert that the "left" is the anti-semitic crowd. And only a disgusting nasty little stain would assert that Nazism is a leftist's wet dream. I acknowledge that, especially here, there is a natural tendency to pop people into containers labelled "leftist" or "rightist" and then to create fabulous and extreme characterizations of what a "leftist" or a "rightist" might feel or believe but it's not entirely useful. "Leftist" could mean anything from someone who believes that socialized healthcare is a good thing, or it could mean that state ownership of everything is a good thing" "Rightist" could mean anything from a passionate belief in small government and individual freedom, or it could mean that corporate ownership of everything is a good thing. Perhaps these are nuances that you miss.

epiphiny43 -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/7/2015 2:42:51 AM)
American Rightists are color blind? What planet is that? Every one I know sends me disgusting jokes in email about blacks, hispanics, muslims and . . . French. Oh, for the simple days of Evil Communism. National Socialism in PRACTICE was, as with everything else about the Third Reich, entirely different from the public propaganda that was so carefully crafted and continuously cranked out. But you knew that and attempted to tar candid political movements with the almost totally fabricated propaganda of somewhat similarly named movement that had totally different actual aims and practices. AND you expect to be believed?? Any brief study of actual Nazi economic policy shows the same people running the large corporations as before, while keeping the profits. Added by slave labor in many cases if needed. Providing they went along with Hitler's agenda and supported his war preparations. Who do you think built the Luftwaffe and Wehrmacht mechanized forces? Mercedes Benz, BMW, Krupp and such. A number of them are still in business, continuously since far before Hitler. Still owned by the Same families. Many from the beginning of the Industrial Age. "Confiscation" largely was limited to Jewish or democratic leaning ownership. Slavery isn't exactly profit sharing, which simply didn't happen. The hereditary ruling class of Imperial Germany continued in place as both the Officer class of the military and the majority of the effective owners of the industrial and economic reality of Germany. All the 'health', education and middle/working class benefits were limited carefully to obvious Aryans (REALLY white people) of approved political, intellectual, religious and sexual choices. About as demographically non-inclusive and color conscious as it's ever been practiced. The benefits for the 'middle class' (Urban workers, NOT the bourgeoisie who were doing famously as war preparations lifted Germany out of the savage Depression) were actually careful measures to keep the labor force needed for Modern Industrial Warfare motivated, intact and productive. To even think of comparing the Third Reich to any actual socialist or Liberal/Democratic movement means someone has been drinking some pretty interesting Koolaid. Hitler Did do a nice job of stealing the messages of his enemies to use as smoke screens for his real nationalist military and racial imperialism. The seminal Master Class in what continues to be Right Wing practice: "Tell them what they want to hear, do what works for Us." Marx got a lot wrong but he nailed, "Running dogs for the Capitalist Warmongers." Nazis or Wall Street toadies masquerading as patriots and Christians. Himmler would be proud of you. "Grasshopper, you have studied your lessons well."

Sanity -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/7/2015 5:04:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 and in case you miss the irony of your "holocaust" point. there is nothing inherently "right" about bigotry, in fact, conservatives and libertarian types are primarily color blind when it comes to race and ethnicity, as opposed to leftists who see pretty everything through that particular prism---and um---its the left who were then and are today, the anti-Semitic crowd. Nazism is a leftists wet dream. I barely know where to begin here. The term far-right is distinct from the radical right. The term "radical right" is strongly associated with conservatism and libertarianism while the term "far right" is used to describe groups more associated with racism and hate. It is a pretty stupid and clumsy lie to assert that the Nazi's were "leftist", they banned socialist and communist groups. It is also pretty stupid to assert that the "left" is the anti-semitic crowd. And only a disgusting nasty little stain would assert that Nazism is a leftist's wet dream. I acknowledge that, especially here, there is a natural tendency to pop people into containers labelled "leftist" or "rightist" and then to create fabulous and extreme characterizations of what a "leftist" or a "rightist" might feel or believe but it's not entirely useful. "Leftist" could mean anything from someone who believes that socialized healthcare is a good thing, or it could mean that state ownership of everything is a good thing" "Rightist" could mean anything from a passionate belief in small government and individual freedom, or it could mean that corporate ownership of everything is a good thing. Perhaps these are nuances that you miss. You are trying telling us with a straight face, that the Nationalist Socialists (the Nazis name for themselves) outlawed every group that called itself 'socialists' [8\|] You got a link for that?

NorthernGent -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/7/2015 5:59:46 AM)
Nazism a leftist's wet dream? I'd venture to suggest that you're confused. Racial doctrine underpinned Nazism in that it was at the core of domestic and foreign policy. I doubt you'll find anyone on the left whose views are the product of racist views. Nazism shares some aspects of fascist doctrine but not all. While Fascism places cultural renaissance at its heart, it does not make racial ideology its reason for being. Where you do have some sort of point is that far left and far right share authoritarian tendencies, but this alone by no means makes Nazism left wing. According to the Nazis, their ideological enemies were the communists, and of course Jewish and Bolshevik were one and the same according to nazis. The conservative elite, while finding Hitler a peasant, found common ground with the nazis in their shared view of volk; as did Martin Heidegger, conservative German farmer who became the philosophical spokesman for the Nazi Party. The nazis were anything but liberal, nor were they conservative in terms of the US understanding of Conservatism, nor were they left-wing. They were authoritarian conservatives in the German tradition, and much of what they thought was rooted in 19th century Germany, except to say that because they didn't have a brain cell between them they misconstrued or cynically manipulated some German thinkers (but not all, some German thinkers from the past would have agreed with a lot they had to say).

crazyml -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/7/2015 6:00:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 and in case you miss the irony of your "holocaust" point. there is nothing inherently "right" about bigotry, in fact, conservatives and libertarian types are primarily color blind when it comes to race and ethnicity, as opposed to leftists who see pretty everything through that particular prism---and um---its the left who were then and are today, the anti-Semitic crowd. Nazism is a leftists wet dream. I barely know where to begin here. The term far-right is distinct from the radical right. The term "radical right" is strongly associated with conservatism and libertarianism while the term "far right" is used to describe groups more associated with racism and hate. It is a pretty stupid and clumsy lie to assert that the Nazi's were "leftist", they banned socialist and communist groups. It is also pretty stupid to assert that the "left" is the anti-semitic crowd. And only a disgusting nasty little stain would assert that Nazism is a leftist's wet dream. I acknowledge that, especially here, there is a natural tendency to pop people into containers labelled "leftist" or "rightist" and then to create fabulous and extreme characterizations of what a "leftist" or a "rightist" might feel or believe but it's not entirely useful. "Leftist" could mean anything from someone who believes that socialized healthcare is a good thing, or it could mean that state ownership of everything is a good thing" "Rightist" could mean anything from a passionate belief in small government and individual freedom, or it could mean that corporate ownership of everything is a good thing. Perhaps these are nuances that you miss. You are trying telling us with a straight face, that the Nationalist Socialists (the Nazis name for themselves) outlawed every group that called itself 'socialists' [8\|] You got a link for that? Well I am not sure what bearing the straightness of my face has on the actual fucking facts of history. They banned all other parties you halfwit. Get a grown up to google “Gleichschaltung,” As for the presence of the word "socialist" in the Nazi party's name you're (as fucking usual) a confused little troll. The Nazi party's definition of "Socialism" was not the same as Marx's. But I know that will fly waaaaaaay over your pea sized brain.

thishereboi -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/7/2015 6:04:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: epiphiny43 American Rightists are color blind? What planet is that? Every one I know sends me disgusting jokes in email about blacks, hispanics, muslims and . . . French. Oh, for the simple days of Evil Communism. I don't suppose it ever occurred to you to get some new friends. I know all sorts of people on the right and NONE of them EVER send me crap like that. If they did, it would only happen once.

Sanity -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/7/2015 6:06:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 and in case you miss the irony of your "holocaust" point. there is nothing inherently "right" about bigotry, in fact, conservatives and libertarian types are primarily color blind when it comes to race and ethnicity, as opposed to leftists who see pretty everything through that particular prism---and um---its the left who were then and are today, the anti-Semitic crowd. Nazism is a leftists wet dream. I barely know where to begin here. The term far-right is distinct from the radical right. The term "radical right" is strongly associated with conservatism and libertarianism while the term "far right" is used to describe groups more associated with racism and hate. It is a pretty stupid and clumsy lie to assert that the Nazi's were "leftist", they banned socialist and communist groups. It is also pretty stupid to assert that the "left" is the anti-semitic crowd. And only a disgusting nasty little stain would assert that Nazism is a leftist's wet dream. I acknowledge that, especially here, there is a natural tendency to pop people into containers labelled "leftist" or "rightist" and then to create fabulous and extreme characterizations of what a "leftist" or a "rightist" might feel or believe but it's not entirely useful. "Leftist" could mean anything from someone who believes that socialized healthcare is a good thing, or it could mean that state ownership of everything is a good thing" "Rightist" could mean anything from a passionate belief in small government and individual freedom, or it could mean that corporate ownership of everything is a good thing. Perhaps these are nuances that you miss. You are trying telling us with a straight face, that the Nationalist Socialists (the Nazis name for themselves) outlawed every group that called itself 'socialists' [8\|] You got a link for that? Well I am not sure what bearing the straightness of my face has on the actual fucking facts of history. They banned all other parties you halfwit. Get a grown up to google “Gleichschaltung,” As for the presence of the word "socialist" in the Nazi party's name you're (as fucking usual) a confused little troll. The Nazi party's definition of "Socialism" was not the same as Marx's. But I know that will fly waaaaaaay over your pea sized brain. So your assertion that the Nazis "banned socialist and communist groups" morphs into "they banned all other parties" Have you any other changes to your version of history to declare?

crazyml -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/7/2015 6:08:46 AM)
you drooling troll. Get a grown up to explain how the set "all other parties" includes .... well all the other fucking parties. Which would include, on account of them being in the set "all other parties", any "party" (being the attribute that causes them to be in the set) that is socialist or communist. [Ed to insert two commas]

NorthernGent -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/7/2015 6:30:40 AM)
Conservative, liberal or left-wing; there will not be a time when a platform is shared with the far right (in England). The reason being that members of the far right are uniformly ill-educated and devoid of any claim to political acumen. Wellington once described his army as the scum of the earth, and that's how we view the far right.

Sanity -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/7/2015 6:40:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent Wellington once described his army as the scum of the earth, and that's how we view the far right. What a strange coincidence That how the Nazis viewed everyone they disagreed with, as well

thishereboi -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/7/2015 6:47:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent Conservative, liberal or left-wing; there will not be a time when a platform is shared with the far right (in England). The reason being that members of the far right are uniformly ill-educated and devoid of any claim to political acumen. Wellington once described his army as the scum of the earth, and that's how we view the far right. So how do you view the far left?

BitYakin -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/7/2015 6:51:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: epiphiny43 American Rightists are color blind? What planet is that? Every one I know sends me disgusting jokes in email about blacks, hispanics, muslims and . . . French. Oh, for the simple days of Evil Communism. I don't suppose it ever occurred to you to get some new friends. I know all sorts of people on the right and NONE of them EVER send me crap like that. If they did, it would only happen once. how ironic eh? EVERYONE he knows he apparently dislikes, he seems to hate "rightests" yet its his entire circle of friends HAHAH

crazyml -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/7/2015 6:52:16 AM)
I can't speak for NorthernGent, but for my part... the far left is viewed as a bit of a joke. They are every bit as nutty, but they don't go around denying the holocaust and attempting to stir up racial hatred. To be clear... the far right has a very specific meaning here, and is not to be confused with the "radical right" which is much more aligned with US ideas of conservatism / libertarianism.

BitYakin -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/7/2015 6:55:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent Conservative, liberal or left-wing; there will not be a time when a platform is shared with the far right (in England). The reason being that members of the far right are uniformly ill-educated and devoid of any claim to political acumen. Wellington once described his army as the scum of the earth, and that's how we view the far right. So how do you view the far left? wouldn't that be obvious, if "far right" is the opposite of "far left" then they must be well educated people who are only interested in interracial relationships

NorthernGent -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/7/2015 6:58:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent Wellington once described his army as the scum of the earth, and that's how we view the far right. What a strange coincidence That how the Nazis viewed everyone they disagreed with, as well No, it's not a strange coincidence. While the far right are a mob of semi-literate peasants, they are afforded freedom of speech like anyone else. They are entitled to their views, but, likewise: as they run around like a pack of idiots talking about things which they've reflected upon for two seconds, I reserve the right to call them the scum of the earth. I'm sure you don't need me to spell out the difference between this sentiment and Hitler and associates.

crazyml -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/7/2015 6:59:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitYakin quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent Conservative, liberal or left-wing; there will not be a time when a platform is shared with the far right (in England). The reason being that members of the far right are uniformly ill-educated and devoid of any claim to political acumen. Wellington once described his army as the scum of the earth, and that's how we view the far right. So how do you view the far left? wouldn't that be obvious, No quote: if "far right" is the opposite of "far left" then they must be well educated people who are only interested in interracial relationships ... as you demonstrate.

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